The Way Into Mordor - Isengard (12/31: Token Machine Stuff)

[DáinIronfoot]

Uruk Sentinel
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 6
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Tracker. Fierce. Hunter 1.
Each time this minion wins a skirmish, you may spot another tracker and exert this minion to capture a non-hunter companion or ally in that skirmish.
"‘We took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White Hand: the Hand that gives us man's-flesh to eat.'"

Is it an oversight you havent stated an tracker?

I assume you mean tracker, but no, it is not. Remember that there's a whole subculture of trackers we'll be getting to later, and some of the cards from each of the tracker groups will work very well together, like this guy. Maybe I should add a "to play, spot an minion" to him, though?

They're Fresh
Event • Shadow
You may discard an card from hand or from play to play this event during the regroup phase.
Spot a captured character in your support area and remove to play or discard a tracker and wound that captured character X times.
"‘What about their legs? They don't need those. Ooh, they look tasty.'"

I see what it does but it gets a bit confusing at the end. Why would you want to wound a comp youve captured?

Because it's sneaky way to potentially kill off a companion or ally. Essentially, this is direct wounding, but since it's so powerful, it requires comboing with some capturing. If you recall, the Spiders had a couple cards like this too, representing how they capture their prey and THEN suck them dry.

[lem0nhead]

Yeah id culturally enforce him a bit.

And i thought the idea was once they were captured you could get bonuses off them and it was a good thing. Why would you wanna kill something youve gone through all the effort to capture?

[DáinIronfoot]

And i thought the idea was once they were captured you could get bonuses off them and it was a good thing. Why would you wanna kill something youve gone through all the effort to capture?

In many cases, you're exactly right. For example, take this guy that I spoiled over at CC (and again at the beginning of this thread):

Uruk Captor
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 5
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Tracker. Fierce.
While you can spot another tracker, this minion gains hunter 2 for each captured companion you can spot (or hunter 3 if that companion is a Hobbit).
"‘Kill all but NOT the Halfings; they are to be brought back ALIVE as quickly as possible.'"

However, once you have them captured, you can either have a little fun with them, or just try to finish them off. The choice is yours, and there will be enough cards spread throughout my sets that you'll be able to choose one or the other to focus on...or even mix in some of both. There's fun to be had for ALL evil Shadow players!

[lem0nhead]

Ok in that case i think its a lot of effort to pack wounding captured characters stuff. Id rather wound ones that are still alive and free! To win, capture, control, have fun THEN wound is just too much effort. Sorry DI. Thran should be around anytime to disagree with me though

[Thranduil]

Uruk Sentinel
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 6
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Tracker. Fierce. Hunter 1. To play, spot an minion.
Each time this minion wins a skirmish, you may spot another tracker and exert this minion to capture a non-hunter companion or ally in that skirmish.
"‘We took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White Hand: the Hand that gives us man's-flesh to eat.'"

I'd take out the non-hunter restriction for 2 reasons: 1) it makes the card too wordy and 2) how annoyed would you be as a Shadow player if you manage to guarantee a winning skirmish with this guy only to see your opponent assign a hunter to him?

They're Fresh
Event • Shadow
You may discard an card from hand or from play to play this event during the regroup phase.
Spot a captured character in your support area and remove to play or discard a tracker and wound that captured character X times.
"‘What about their legs? They don't need those. Ooh, they look tasty.'"

Personally I think it's too complex. You could easily and simply say: 'If you have captured a character, play a tracker' - I'm also not sure what the discarding option is for.

How about a choice card, like:

'If you have captured a character, choose one: play a tracker from your hand or discard pile; or wound that character twice.'

Then throw a spotting requirement on and you have a much simpler and nicer card. That's my two cents, anyway.

Thranduil

[DáinIronfoot]

I understand your point, lem0n, but remember that the cards that wound captured characters usually do so in multiples (meaning they'll kill most characters off with very little in the way of possible prevention by their owners), and they usually come easier and cheaper than direct wounding at other times.

I agree that you're likely not going to have some fun with captured characters and THEN kill them, but it's certainly possible. Requires a little more work, yes, but it can be done, and probably more easily than you might think. Most the time, players will probably capture for the sole purpose of playing around with captured characters OR to kill them off, but it's not all-exclusive. The flexibility (and uncertainly for the opponent) is what makes it fun and interesting. I hope.

Thran, just saw your review, and I like your ideas. I'll make some tweaks.

[Thranduil]

Yeah, I had no problem with the concept of wounding your captured characters (as lem0n said I wouldn't ) I just thought that the card could easily be a lot simpler and just as effective.

Thranduil

[lem0nhead]

Yeah, I had no problem with the concept of wounding your captured characters (as lem0n said I wouldn't )

See? See? Its a flaming conspiracy i tell you to disrepute my reviews! Fine! Im standing by it seems #$&*@! of an effort for a mechanic!

[Thranduil]

It is a bit of an effort, but if you're capturing people anyway, at least you can get some above average wounding out of it if you want.

Thranduil

[DáinIronfoot]

Yeah, I had no problem with the concept of wounding your captured characters (as lem0n said I wouldn't )

See? See? Its a flaming conspiracy i tell you to disrepute my reviews! Fine! Im standing by it seems #$&*@! of an effort for a mechanic!

Duly noted. Hopefully you'll warm up to it over time.

It is a bit of an effort, but if you're capturing people anyway, at least you can get some above average wounding out of it if you want.

Bingo! My thoughts exactly.

[lem0nhead]

By the way i had no idea the opposite of heaven is considered a swear word, i unsurprisingly have the filter off.

Dain a question that might help clear things up for me. What happens once youve captured them, do they stay there? Or do they escape after so long? You have to maintain them there like your prison idea, or do they just die eventually?

Trying clear up why you'd want to wound your captured guys.

[Thranduil]

Yeah, a restatement of the mechanic in its entirety would not be a bad idea.

Thranduil

[DáinIronfoot]

As stated in the thread I linked to over at CC (and linked again here), the concept we agreed on is as follows:

The original concept (which nearly everyone thought was badly overpowered) was that you could capture an opponent's character much like controlling an opponent's site. Captured characters go in your support area. Captured characters cannot be used by their owner, and the player who captured them can get some benefits from them. They can only become "un-captured" when their owner rescues them somehow. Companions, allies, and minions can all be captured, though it usually isn't terribly easy to do so, especially for Shadow players.

Captured companions/allies remain captured ONLY while there are minions in play. As soon as the last minion is killed or discarded, all captured companions/allies are automatically rescued...which makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Captured minions, however, remain captured indefinately...which also makes sense, since there are obviously always companions in play to keep those minions captured.

However, each time the fellowship moves, each player must pay twilight equal to the total printed cost of all characters they have captured. Any character NOT paid for in this way is automatically rescued.

Rescued companions/allies are automatically returned to the fellowship, and rescued minions return to play, free to harass the fellowship again. This is true whether automatically rescued as described above, or if some other type of card is played or effect takes place that rescues a character.

I was originally trying to fix it with a new card type called a "prison" that would hold a certain number of captured characters, and also a version of the upkeep concept someone else (Foresight, I think) invented, but that was nixed by others as too complicated and, ultimately, unnecessary.

[lem0nhead]

Seeing as the comps get freed at the end of the turn or when there are no minions left wounding one whilst captured is ace DI, i withdraw my review. 

[DáinIronfoot]

Time is once again limited as schoolwork is getting oppresive during this final stretch. Just one more card for now....

Uruk Ambusher
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 6
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Tracker. Fierce. Hunter 1. Ambush .
While the fellowship is at a battleground, you may play this minion any time you could play an assignment event.
Each time you play a tracker (except during a Shadow phase), you may exert an unwounded unbound companion (or wound that companion if he or she bears a search card).
"But they had not gone far on the way back when they were attacked again, by a hundred Orcs at least, some of them very large...."

This guy harkens back to one the tracker leaders:

•Mauhúr, Expert Scout
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 8
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Tracker. Fierce. Hunter 1.
While the fellowship is at a battleground, forest, or plains site, each other tracker gains hunter 1 and you may play Mauhúr any time you could play an assignment event.
Assignment: Exert Mauhúr to play an tracker from your hand. That tracker gains hunter 2 until the regroup phase.
"Then suddenly the answering cries of orc-voices came...from the direction of the forest and the mountains. Mauhúr had apparently arrived...."

When I originally posted Mauhúr, people thought he was cool but didn't quite "get" his ability to play other trackers (and himself) during the assignment. Sure, the extra hunter 2 was nice, and skipping archery and all was good, but it didn't seem to be all that great. Combo him with the new, appropriately-titled Ambusher. He turns that assignment-Uruk-playing into extra exertions...or even wounds under the right cicumstances.