The LotR PC is now accepting applications!
We are looking to fill roles on the following teams:
- Card Design and Development
- Playtesting
- Rules
- Organized Play (including tournament directors)
- Marketing
- Web Design and Programming
Vince, Chris and I would like all those interested in being a part of the PC Team to send us an email outlining:
- Your qualifications,
- Why you think you'd be a strong candidate (and on which team),
- What you enjoyed in sets 1-19, and why,
- What you didn't enjoy in sets 1-19, and why not,
- When you started playing LotR.
We really want to put together a high-caliber team, so contact us soon at LotRTCGPC@gmail.com if you're interested! Remember to include examples of work you've done if you're interested in Card or Web Design or Marketing.
If you would like to know what it will be like, please see swccgpc.com or trekcc.org - we will be modeling ourselves after and working with these groups in order to be successful. As of yet, the PC is not officially sanctioned by Decipher and is only NOW being formed. However, those in charge of its formation (Vince Accetturo, Chris Schoenthal and I) have all been Decipher volunteers and played in and judged world championship level events. In addition, Vince and Chris were both highly respected playtesters for a number of years (even though Decipher really didn't listen to playtesters during Hunters Block), and were both as much a part of this game as anyone at Decipher for a long time.
Basically what I'm saying is this:
- There is no info that can be passed along at this time about the LotR TCG PC, other than we are looking for the best and brightest to join our ranks.
- Those involved in its inception can be trusted to do it right, and with the fans and players of the game in mind.
All I won't to say is don't go crazy with trying to x-list everything a few people don't like. That will ruin the game more than help keep it alive. I'm all for a LOtR PC as long as they don't try to be the 'GODS' of rule changes and card errata and such. I fully support any group that is trying to keep this great game alive and trying to get more tournament support and such . Just don't kill the game by x-listing, issuing errata and such because a few people don't like how the game is going.
To be fair- the game isn't technically 'going' at all But I certainly see your point. I am not speaking from any position of official authority when I say all of this, of course, but I'd say that Open will obviously stay as is. Standard needs a bit of work, and there are multiple different ways to do this. I doubt we would do a lot of errata unless it is 'cosmetic' stuff- it's much easier to ban things, then bring back similar cards with the same INTENT but more proper costing, etc. The "virtual card" concept gives quite a bit of latitude to fix older mistakes in a way that still allows for the use of strategies and cards that would otherwise be overpowered.
- Rule of 4: change it in to: no more than 4 cards can be taken in to hand or played from draw deck during your fellowship
- Warg Riders. That keyword should be added to certain Orcs, so that the wargs only can go to the Warg Riders. Banning the Keyward is ridiculous, cause that throws out an entire deck, instead of mellowing it.
- certain cards should be bound to a certain culture, such as Prized Lagan.
I think these things are o.k.
I mean, different cultures have to help each other to defeat the forces of the shadow, for that, the FPP get problems, if he has more than 2 FP Cultures.
You see, Prized Lagan is not that problem!
I don't see why you should ban "combo" cards and "fix" culture-less cards. You basically kill deck desing by doing this, discouraging combo decks and rainbow decks (or rainbow splashes, which is ALSO deck design, since it makes deckbuilders check out ALL the cards when building a deck, to see if something outside that particular culture might stand out as useful. Of course, in some cases, errata for clarification or fixing functionality would be nice, but other than that, unless a certain combo is SO powerful everyone (or close to everyone) plays it, then I think instead of banning you could create counter measures for it (or in THIS case issueing errata for certain cards).
Actually, combo decks are strongly against the point of LotR. Card combinations can be fun, but the horn deck is just flat-out overpowered. Its like a site 1 win against any skirmish oriented deck, and sets up a mean shadow kill. There is no counter to the Horn combo, except maybe A Dark Shape Sprang on Gamling with expanded Gollum cards...but nobody's playing expanded Horn, its all standard.
The deck CAN be killed, but I'm just saying you cannot stop the combo from going off, and it leaves swarm shadows virtually unstoppable.
As for rainbow splashes, they're fine, but just a 0 twilight card that completely freezes something...let's just make sure they're at least playing a hobbit in there.
I have a rainbow deck, actually, built on cards with hefty spotting requirements, like Glimpse of Fate, Brooding on Tomorrow, A Light In His Mind and Hardy Garrison. It runs ALL of them. And works well with the spotting requirements. plus, it runs some specialized possessions, etc. Cultural enforcement doesn't mean no rainbow decks. It just means Shire cards aren't being run without a hobbit.
I was just informed of this thread, so I'm posted. My name is Seth Maser. You may remember me as 2007 WC runner-up and a LOTR TCG Grand Master. What you did not know is I was the lead playtester for Decipher's LOTR for a half dozen sets (along with being the lead writer). I am a part of this group that will be doing a PC, so if you are questioning the right hands, I'd like to hope I'm considered one of them. I know that the last few sets had severe faults, but I can also tell you that each and every one of them were reported and the problems were more with the pressure to force things out rather than poor playtesting. I would give further details but I am bound by certain agreements not to do so.
That said there are people, myself and several others, that have designed cards that were printed and balanced. Those people are acutely aware of the meta and will be a major part of the creation of a viable and fair format. This has been considered since the day Decipher ended its run, not just when Steve came up here asking for volunteers.
We ask that you all work with us and help us grow as a universal PC rather than just another splintered group. Like the SWCCG PC, we will not be perfect, and we will get our fair share of criticism, but we will do a very good job creating a format and cards that everyone can play. Like that committee, this committee is starting with players who have a background in the game (Steve, Vince, and Chris were all prominent DAgents), as well as myself and a few others who are not yet identified. This will be mixed with many of you, rabid LOTR fans who just want to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. This can work with all types of opinions, compromises, and even differences of opinion.
In the end, I'm asking you all to volunteer and contact Steve through the email given, and eventually the emails for each department necessary to run the PC.
I don't know how often I'll be able to check this site, but please trust that the PC is in knowledgeable hands, with people who care and want this to succeed. Please trust in Vince, Chris, and Steve, because they are dealing with all the various and splintered LOTR TCG pockets and each of you has a different idea of the direction of the game. This will work, as long as we are all open and trust that each person will do what is best for the community as a whole.
In other words... no, there isn't one. And I personally doubt there'll ever be one sanctioned by Decipher since they have no incentive to do so. We should stop waiting and make one here.
Of course the problems lie in agreeing on a format to play. Ie: an X List has to be agreed upon, the blocks if we want a rotation sytem, what to do about the last three sets, etc. I would say agreement on these issues will be difficult -- especially with a lack of 'legitimacy' coming from no blessing from big 'D'.
My Proposal:
0. I guess we'll have to put someone in charge. By election perhaps? The big name guys on these boards will help with our legitimacy problem.
1. Agree on the current set rotation, if any. I'd prefer none.
2. Agree on an updated X-List, Restricted List and/or Errata to break the big loops, broken-ness etc.
3. Lets start by virtualizing Set 1 (about 20) of the old cards (from Blocks 1-3) and avoid making new images for awhile. This will warm people up.
Thoughts to consider:
A: Do YOU want virtual cards?
B: Would you fall behind a committee that starts changing things in the game?
C: How should the rotations be dealt with?
As for the PC, it never got off the ground. There was obvious interest from the players side, but it never really got past that. The biggest obstacle at the time (and still today) is that Decipher is a little (ok, very) preoccupied with Fight Klub. It just launched, and they're understandably trying to keep the focus on that.
When things get a little more settled, it will be easier to get their attention and plead our case.
The other big stumbling blocks include the lack of sealed product available on the market (it was mentioned elsewhere that Decipher has none left in their warehouse), post Movie Block loss of players, the 3-5 year gap of communication (not everybody knows about this site, obviously), and the varying, very strong opinions of the players of how to "fix" the game. From my understanding, when the PC does get started, and it will, everything from Hunters, RoS, T&D and AE will be banned as the PC comes up with the best solution of how to bring them back into the game. Other preliminary ideas have been tossed out there by those looking to head up the PC, but it's way too soon to say whether or not those will be part of the final plan.
That said, if you've got ideas for the PC, feel free to email them to lotrtcgpc@gmail.com - it doesn't always get checked, as it's on the back burner for most everybody involved, but it will be reviewed in time.
Mass errata with V-Slips would probably be necessary I'd guess. I'd rather see the errata's with printable slips than an X-List. Even though I've got 4 packs worth of Hunters block. HawkEye's right though, it'd be necessary for a little while or we'd have to wait a loooong time until the PC worked out errata's behind closed doors.
But MrLurtz's reaction is typical of what I'd expect with the creation of a PC. Some will not like the decisions no matter what they are.
Lurtzy: So, in your opinion, the game is balanced as is? It doesn't need to have all of Hunters Block looked at?
LOOKED AT <--- This does not imply that everything will need to be changed. There is plenty in Hunters Block that I'm sure won't need to be errated even. SOME OF IT DOES.
You got it exactly right jerba - some people just do not like change, no matter how good the result will be. V-Slip errata is exactly what was discussed. My hope would be that one copy of the errata slips could be mailed, free of charge, to each person who registered with the PC, but I have no idea what the finances of the PC will look like, so I don't know that that's feasible.
Just remember: if any card would be changed it is for the good of the game. Many factors have to be weighed when changing a card. Balance, availability of the card, counters, new players, old players, backlash, etc. No card will be changed without reason. If a precious Hunter block card would be changed it is so that the game is more fun, more accessible, and therefore more welcoming to every breed of player.
Also, I think as FEW cards as possible, if any, will be errattaed. Do as little harm as possible should be the goal. But some trade-offs will be made. You could change a few cards and advance the game with more players OR not change anything and wait for the game to continue to die.
Yes, Lurtzy, it'll affect Hunters Block, but you can be sure that the PC will only change cards that need change, and that those changes will not negatively affect any play environment, be it Standard, Expanded, Open, Draft, or Block.
The Horn deck will definitely receive some type of errata. Loops of that sort will not be welcome in any format. Frenzy of Arrows is another that will get consideration. Decipher simply didn't have the manpower or time to fix that one properly.
Well, wether the horn deck, nor the Gil-Galad combo should be changed. The hunters block is balanced, as it is the standard format.
Be aware: do NOT change cards! That would divide the playership and ruin the game. As I have said before, the horn deck and even the troll swarm are not overpowered!
Card changing can not be handled by players, because it is a subjectif view of sight.
There is just one thing to change, indeed, I think : "Frenzy of arrows". And for this, I would suggst to get 150 subscriptions of players all over the world (do not forget Asia!!!) to accept the new card.
And, if Decipher gets ready with Fight Klub: Collect all rule questions with examples, so we can give them to decipher.
Election would be nice.
Decipher will NOT work with us on rules questions. They will not fix things. Period. They could care less. Its no longer there problem as we've seen over the last few years. They don't have any LOTR experts left nor the incentive to help. Their "blessing" will be nothing more than permission to use their template if we're lucky imo. Remember its D that ruined the game, it won't have been the PC.
As for changing cards, somethings will have to be handled. Plus, its these attitudes that have prevented, to some degree, the PC from moving forward. Whats the purpose of the PC if it can't fix some things? I don't have any card in my sights here. But you guys who can't stand the thought of change: What is the purpose of the PC in your opinion?
Actually, the Trek CC (trekcc.org) started all on its own without explicit permission from either Decipher or Paramount. They got the template files straight from Brad Defruiter, who used to be in charge of design for trek. So far, they have managed not to piss off either D or Paramount, but they run the risk of doing so and being shut down.
I belive that the rules SW TCG PC is using for themselves are the ones LOTR TCG PC should have:
1) They never modify any actually printed card by errata or by making virtual cards with the same titles and images.
2) They never modify any X- and R-list for printed cards, as by the last edition of WOTC ban list.
3) They do create they own virtual cards with new titles and new images. They are using WOTC copyrighted templates and Lucasfilm's images but neither seem to care.
4) They do allow players to play with or without their new cards. That way the purists can still have their own pre-PC "standard" format unchanged, while the rest can experiments with new cards and new mechanics, trying to balance old card or make them playable again.
And yes, I agree with Elrohir, if LOTR PC will start by banning and changing existing cards, it will only alienate players from it. (However Frenzy of Arrows is the notable exception).
To get license, we have to run a TCG succesful for 5 years.
And good financing. We won't be getting the license. We just need a PC to make new cards not a company .
1 - take only a few members, which means ~ 5-6, should form a PC (too many opinions...and so on)
2 - diffent countries, different life styles: the members of a PC should come from all over the world, e.g one from the USA, GB, Australia, South America, Germany/Austria, alright?
Multi-national representation and liason is essential. I think talking specific numbers is premature but I agree with you the PC should be tight in numbers. However, there will have to be more people included in playtesting capacity.
the more represantativs the more difficult it gets to come up to a decision...
Try putting 50 people in the room with various ideas. See how easy it is to make progress in moving forward. Your point though is also along the lines as I feel though. I want the players in the community involved. I want their voices heard. I would like to see a setup where that can happen. However, we will still need a forum that would be for private discussion. At the very least where only the PC members can post.
IN Design designers need the freedom to through ideas out. I've seen it too many times where cards that are created are just so good or bizarre that most people may just flip out over the power of playability of the card. When that happens sometimes great ideas are lost. Allowing Design to be creative is good. It's what makes for a healthy design environment. Given there does need to be some parameters. I think everyone would agree we don't need to see 30+ str orc armies...
I do hear you though Lurtzy. I don't want this to be a "good ol' boys" club. It needs to involve the players and be for the players. I also appreciate your questioning things. It's very healthy to have people question ideas. If we all agreed then things could end up even worse.
I think the first thing to do is to generate credibility. With every forum the risk is that people get to know eachother, and indeed a 'good ol'boys' club is created. Therefor credibility and acceptance by the whole community -as far as possible- is needed. Maybe via the old groups on decktech? So we need definately need quite some time to get more people involved..people from all over the world.
Its not about ignoring ideas or secrecy. Its about providing a united front when things are released and developing an idea without alienating the general play group. We don't want there to be different bickering camps -- I've seen it in Star Wars. It creates a hostile environment, nothing gets done, and the product (ie v cards) suffer as a result. You lose more players in this situation. In fact if the whole community was contributing, voting on, and making each and every v-card most ideas and proposals would HAVE to be ignored, passed over, or tacitly acknowledged. You will be offending a lot more people like that and creating a schism in our playing group. Private PC forums allows for the arguments and development to safely evolve without any threat to the community on the whole.
Part of the great aspect of card game expansions is the anticipation for new cards. Something must be a surprise. If that process were generally available to the community nothing would be a surprise. Nothing would be agreed upon and the PC would not exist. It might as well be the DC forum here on TLHH.
I hate to bring this back up, but I recently heard from someone in the know that the reason the original PC never got off the ground was because of New Line Cinema and one Peter Jackson.
If you think they won't shut down anything labeled as a PC as soon as they hear about it, you've got another thing comin'. That said, feel free to get a plan together, but you better be #$&*@! sure it's complete before you submit it to any of the involved parties, and even then, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on a positive response.
I think the best bet is just to organize whatever kind of events you want, hosted wherever you want, and advertise the heck out of them anywhere you can. Right here at TLHH seems like a fine place to do that - maybe a new forum would be in order?
So...who's going to run the GenCon Series? ComicCon Series? Essen Spiel Series? Wizard World Series? DragonCon Series? Nobody says we can't organize State and National Championships - with over two month's notice, I don't see why you can't call that tournament in Kansas a State Championship. Running World Championships might be a stretch until more players know about this site, but hey, why not?
Showing an active player base is absolutely the BEST way to demonstrate the need for a PC to those who might otherwise be dubious.
Just a few ideas, take them for what they're worth.
Suggestions about organization:
Administration:
1. Chairman Fishfleas
2. Secretary Elrohir (to me it seems he speaks at least 4 different languages)
3. Cashier
4. Rulings & Referee's:
a. Referees
5. Playdevellopment & design
a. Designers
b. Developers
c. Testers
6. Marketing (contact (decipher, Weta, Licenseholders), reaching sponsors and new players)
7. Webhost
a. Moderators
A lot of ideas which I've get into my head and to filter. For now I would say:
I don't want a big PC (5 people would be okay). I want teams/commissions with each a represantative in the pc. The teams will make sure that most nationalities and most people will be part of this.
Talking about cards to be errated or to be x-ed is not part of this topic. It will be a responsability for the pc, but talking about it now will hinder forming a pc. So please don't. It will be dealt after the organisation is ready and by the proper team.
Further I think to get all of this going we should do like Startrek pc has done and after we've settled things we try to get everything official with whoever is involved. To this point I think we need a very sollid plan and maybe (I'm actually sure about this) we need to do it together with Starttrek pc and star wars pc. But as said earlier that's not our first concern.
About leadership. My experience is that someone has to pull it of first, before you can do it with elections. So at this point I first ask input about peoples involvement and put them in teams. I give my preference about who should be in the pc and for starting this up I want to apoint them there. If everything is on the rail, elections within the teams about their representative should come into play. My stewardship will end on the moment the first Returned king is elected. Hey Denethor did the same, didn't he
But if you don't mind I don't do it as drastic as he did
Keep put in your ideas.. I'm in my denktank for the coming 2 days, but will attend to it after the weekend. Cheers, jw
Topic: New Players comittee (Read 30481 times)
