LotR TCG Wiki → Card Sets:  All 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 → Forums:  TLHH CC

Author Topic: The Banned Combo List  (Read 10532 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

May 30, 2009, 08:13:11 AM
Read 10532 times

SomeRandomDude

  • ********
  • Information Offline
  • Maia
  • Posts: 7004
  • Most Likely To Usurp Kralik and Dáin
    • My Wordpress
The Banned Combo List
« on: May 30, 2009, 08:13:11 AM »
Whereas all cards are designed to be played with,
Whereas the current system of banning cards because of their combos detracts from the original purpose of designing the card,
Whereas errata to "fix" cards is entirely unnecessary, unwieldy, and intimidating for newcomers to the game,
Whereas the simplest solution is always the best,
Resolved: That TLHH shall establish a banned combo list, insomuch as both cards cannot be played in the same deck.

Okay guys, so the purpose of the banned combo list is to shut down all these infinite loops and broken combos, while allowing those cards to be played.

The banned combos list would be something like, Strange Looking Men cannot be played in the same deck as Pavise, Troll's Keyward, Keeper of the Beast can't be played in the same deck as the warg, Demoralized can't be played in the same deck as Rapid Reload or Rallying Orc.

You all with me? Sweet!

So there's the idea, let's talk about the combos. Obviously there's still some cards that are too powerful and combo too easily with other cards, such as The Shire Countryside, but I think that the following guidelines should determine the list that the card goes on.

1: Creating OP Combos: Combo Ban (ie: Troll's Keyward, Keeper of the Beast and his warg).
2: Extremely Powerful Card: Restricted List (ie: Ulaire Nertea, Messenger of Dol Guldur)
3: Cards That Combo With A Sizeable Number Of Other Cards: X-list (ie: The Shire Countryside)

The problem with number 2, of course, is recursion, so a line needs to be drawn on how powerful a restricted card is as opposed to a powerful card that needs banning. For example, Orkish Smith could probably stay on the X-list because of its big recursion issue.

Anyone like the idea?
NB- 4 year veteran of CC/TLHH

"It was like:
Kralik: "What hath God wrought"
NB: "I dunno, but I'm in ur house eating ur food.""
-Elessar's Socks

Trade List- ft. Aragorn, Defender of Rohan

May 30, 2009, 08:26:14 AM
Reply #1

Not a Zombie

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 786
  • An intelligent Corporeal, Previously sweet_stuff
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2009, 08:26:14 AM »
I totally do! I have always wanted to make a deck that used steadfast champion, but because of treebeard, kotw, I couldn't. This would be a great fix!
No one loves you like I do.
--God

I'm imploring people I've never met to pressure a government with better things to do to punish a man who meant no harm for something nobody even saw, thats what I'm doing!

May 30, 2009, 12:25:53 PM
Reply #2

MR. Lurtzy

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2745
  • Wouldn't it be nice if we were Hodor?
    • My website
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2009, 12:25:53 PM »
Absolutely horrible idea.

May 30, 2009, 01:23:32 PM
Reply #3

Gate Troll

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 971
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2009, 01:23:32 PM »
Absolutely horrible idea.

Why? Sounded pretty reasonable to me.

May 30, 2009, 03:17:30 PM
Reply #4

legolas3333

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2152
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2009, 03:17:30 PM »
i like it for the same reason as Sweet
A Promo Saved is a Promo Earned

May 31, 2009, 08:17:36 AM
Reply #5

Smeagollum

  • Guest
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2009, 08:17:36 AM »
I think this will be extremely difficult.  So, I'm not sure if this a good idea. For instance I think it would be a better trick to say on pavise that minions bearing pavise can't exert in the manouverphase. That would be more easy then to have and maintain a x-list for specific combo's.

May 31, 2009, 12:29:34 PM
Reply #6

macheteman

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Knight
  • Posts: 1938
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2009, 12:29:34 PM »
Whereas errata to "fix" cards is entirely unnecessary, unwieldy, and intimidating for newcomers to the game,
Whereas the simplest solution is always the best,
Resolved: That TLHH shall establish a banned combo list, insomuch as both cards cannot be played in the same deck.


i don't think it is easy for newcomers to have to have a list of cards that can't go in the same deck. how is that simple? it would make deckbuilding a beast if you are new to the game. sure, if you've been around for a while and know how the cards work brokenness together it would be simple enough, but having an X-list, R-list, Errata list, and X-combo list, just adds more complications.

May 31, 2009, 02:28:29 PM
Reply #7

Not a Zombie

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 786
  • An intelligent Corporeal, Previously sweet_stuff
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2009, 02:28:29 PM »
I'm a bit curious, why is the combo strange looking men and pavise so deadly? is there some loop you can make with it?
No one loves you like I do.
--God

I'm imploring people I've never met to pressure a government with better things to do to punish a man who meant no harm for something nobody even saw, thats what I'm doing!

May 31, 2009, 02:31:24 PM
Reply #8

SomeRandomDude

  • ********
  • Information Offline
  • Maia
  • Posts: 7004
  • Most Likely To Usurp Kralik and Dáin
    • My Wordpress
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2009, 02:31:24 PM »
I think this will be extremely difficult.  So, I'm not sure if this a good idea. For instance I think it would be a better trick to say on pavise that minions bearing pavise can't exert in the manouverphase. That would be more easy then to have and maintain a x-list for specific combo's.
Lists are more wieldy than errata, additional rules, etc. All the complicated rules can shut down ways the card are supposed to work and a handbook of rules, and rules on how cards can be worked, and lists on cards that work differently from how they're printed...

Its a mess. A simple list is the easiest way to go.

Absolutely horrible idea.

....thanks for your opinion?
Anyone have anything CONSTRUCTIVE to say?
NB- 4 year veteran of CC/TLHH

"It was like:
Kralik: "What hath God wrought"
NB: "I dunno, but I'm in ur house eating ur food.""
-Elessar's Socks

Trade List- ft. Aragorn, Defender of Rohan

May 31, 2009, 02:47:02 PM
Reply #9

TheJord

  • League Director
  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2294
  • High King of Rules
    • GamesCobra
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2009, 02:47:02 PM »
I'm a bit curious, why is the combo strange looking men and pavise so deadly? is there some loop you can make with it?

It involves a combo with RoS Evil Men and stacking on possessions and being able to keep playing, discarding and replaying all the stuff you need. But it is incredibly laborious and your opponent will likely leave the table while you spend 30 minutes working the loop.

So 2 reasons to ban it!
"The rule of Gondor is mine!"

May 31, 2009, 04:26:00 PM
Reply #10

sickofpalantirs

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Useful Spammer
  • Posts: 8880
  • one spammer to rule them all
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2009, 04:26:00 PM »
Absolutely horrible idea.
Thank you for telling us why, instead of just making a fool of yourself.  dodged a bullet there!

also, I like the idea,
whatshisface ;) is right, steadfast champion treebeard KOTW is another combo to ban. 

Gil-Galad Namarie of course ( though I think Namarie is still too good.  possibly restrict it as well?
And Gil-Galad leaving forever
and Faithful stone period ;)
Felipe Musco:
(after all, it's a CHARITY organization, I still have SOME principles, even having gone through Law School... :P),
Elf Lvr:
Bit of a scrawny Iowan kid with an unhealthy artifact obsession. Oh, and a God of Spam. In a good way.
Ahhh!!! SoP, you're a genius!!! :gp: ~Menace64
SoP's Trade List
Like Muscle Cars? Check out themusclecarplace.com

May 31, 2009, 05:25:48 PM
Reply #11

MR. Lurtzy

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2745
  • Wouldn't it be nice if we were Hodor?
    • My website
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2009, 05:25:48 PM »
Errata them.

May 31, 2009, 07:00:41 PM
Reply #12

macheteman

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Knight
  • Posts: 1938
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2009, 07:00:41 PM »
Anyone have anything CONSTRUCTIVE to say?

what about what i said? i really don't think it is helpful to new players to have cards that can't be in the same deck with another card or cards...  it just adds more confusion.

May 31, 2009, 07:39:52 PM
Reply #13

sickofpalantirs

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Useful Spammer
  • Posts: 8880
  • one spammer to rule them all
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2009, 07:39:52 PM »
Errata them.
we have stated multiple times that erratra is confusing...though of course, this is confusing too.  I think this is the lesser of two weasels though ;)
Felipe Musco:
(after all, it's a CHARITY organization, I still have SOME principles, even having gone through Law School... :P),
Elf Lvr:
Bit of a scrawny Iowan kid with an unhealthy artifact obsession. Oh, and a God of Spam. In a good way.
Ahhh!!! SoP, you're a genius!!! :gp: ~Menace64
SoP's Trade List
Like Muscle Cars? Check out themusclecarplace.com

May 31, 2009, 07:48:11 PM
Reply #14

MR. Lurtzy

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2745
  • Wouldn't it be nice if we were Hodor?
    • My website
Re: The Banned Combo List
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2009, 07:48:11 PM »
I believe the goal should be to make cards work, not banning combos, which was not what LOTR was intended to have.