Okay, here is what we talked about in the first session. As you can see we like to have everything in open, so that you're able to react. Beneath the chat you find a summaring of yesterday's chat.
(21:22:23) Smeagollum: Hi all!
(21:29:18) MR._Lurtzy: hello
(21:29:23) Smeagollum: Hi
(21:29:36) Smeagollum: How are you doing?
(21:30:45) MR._Lurtzy: ok so what is this meeting about
(21:30:46) Smeagollum: Hi Lurtzy
(21:31:33) Smeagollum: well today we would talk about the rulings & crd and the team who'll gonna host that part.
(21:33:39) Smeagollum: well.. just let's see who'll gonna join.. because we need as much people as we can.
(21:35:01) Smeagollum: But it's not 2200 yet
(21:35:35) MR._Lurtzy: I guess that's why I was confused
(21:35:57) MR._Lurtzy: it says 20.00 on the post
(21:36:15) Smeagollum: it did??? 8o
(21:36:26) MR._Lurtzy: 2nd post
(21:36:56) Smeagollum: yes you're right... I confused myself.. stupid me...
(21:37:14) Elendil!Urukfear: are we talking about members or what?
(21:37:26) Smeagollum: do you have problems into staying in the chat Lurtzy?
(21:37:52) Elendil!Urukfear: lol
(21:37:59) MR._Lurtzy: no, my internet does that when I log onto tlhh
(21:38:09) MR._Lurtzy: I'm still here though when it does that
(21:38:13) Smeagollum: No I want to discuss strategy. And to form the rulings &cdr team
(21:38:46) Smeagollum: Where there people at 20.00?
(21:38:59) Smeagollum: I feel so stupid...
(21:39:02) MR._Lurtzy: perhaps we should eliminate the x-list and make all cards on it more balanced
(21:39:47) Smeagollum: I wish that would be possible.
(21:40:10) Smeagollum: but then everybody should agree on that
(21:42:08) Smeagollum: well we could use Legosmurf's idea to eliminate the x-list
(21:42:25) MR._Lurtzy: what was his idea?
(21:43:04) Smeagollum: to use the old cards with new gametext. Exactly as SWCCG has been doing in the beginning.
(21:45:12) MR._Lurtzy: it's an idea
(21:45:20) MR._Lurtzy: but that would be a really drastic change
(21:45:32) Smeagollum: And with the old cards we create also new cards for instance we can make some moria cards get the orc-sign.. so they become orc-cards instead.
(21:46:23) Smeagollum: drastic, but it will also bring live into the game.
(21:47:08) Smeagollum: Hi Elrohir!
(21:47:14) Elrohir: hello
(21:47:28) Smeagollum: How are you doing?
(21:47:38) Elrohir: I am busy 
(21:47:54) Elrohir: But I am fine 
(21:47:56) Smeagollum: examns?
(21:48:03) Elrohir: No, work
(21:48:27) Smeagollum: ah ok...
(21:48:49) Elrohir: Can not stay long here. It could happen that I have to leave suddenly.
(21:48:56) Elrohir: hi Lurtzy
(21:49:06) Smeagollum: okay we'll see 
(21:49:21) Smeagollum: Is your brother there as well?
(21:50:06) Elrohir: yes, he is fine.
(21:50:47) Smeagollum: Because I like to have about 5 people in the rulings team and besides Hawkeye and Discostu, I like to have you both in that team.
(21:51:51) Smeagollum: One of that team will represent that team in the pc.
(21:52:41) Smeagollum: But before going into that. Where do you guys think should be the decisions be made?
(21:53:07) Smeagollum: In my opinion the team should check the rulings and the formats.
(21:53:44) Smeagollum: and advise (propose) the pc.
(21:54:17) Smeagollum: About repairing cards, Rulings, x-list and such.
(21:54:43) Smeagollum: What do you think?
(21:54:57) MR._Lurtzy: revising the x-list in very important
(21:55:08) Elrohir: cool
(21:56:06) Smeagollum: I agree that revising is important. It would be the first job the team will have.
(21:57:07) Smeagollum: ES had 3 questions: - Who has the final say on rulings?
- Who decides what makes it into rules documents?
- Who gets "write access" to rules documents?
(21:57:20) Smeagollum: So let's discuss these 3.
(21:58:00) Smeagollum: I my vision the rulingsteam will advise the pc about rulechanges and such
(21:58:39) Smeagollum: and when aproved by the pc the rulingsteam should carry it out.
(21:58:57) Smeagollum: HI ES.. I just mentioned your 3 questions
(21:59:13) Elessar's_Socks: Hey Smeagollum, just catching up
(21:59:47) Smeagollum: I was a bit late.. I confused myself with the time.
(22:00:03) Smeagollum: Hey Lurtzy is gone??
(22:00:22) Elessar's_Socks: Haha, I saw your post.
(22:01:10) Smeagollum: The whole week I'm thinking about 2200...:?
(22:01:54) Smeagollum: Can you read back what I sugested about the rulingsteam?
(22:02:25) Elessar's_Socks: The earliest message I see is at 12:50:06 by Elrohir
(22:02:42) Smeagollum: Ah okay.. let me see..
(22:03:07) Smeagollum: Because I like to have about 5 people in the rulings team and besides Hawkeye and Discostu, I like to have you both in that team.
(21:51:51) Smeagollum: One of that team will represent that team in the pc.
(21:52:41) Smeagollum: But before going into that. Where do you guys think should be the decisions be made?
(21:53:07) Smeagollum: In my opinion the team should check the rulings and the formats.
(21:53:44) Smeagollum: and advise (propose) the pc.
(21:54:17) Smeagollum: About repairing cards, Rulings, x-list and such.
(22:03:57) Smeagollum: Actually I hoped more people would have joined the chat...
(22:04:16) Elessar's_Socks: We've got Lurtzy now!
(22:04:23) MR._Lurtzy: yes, I'm back
(22:04:36) Elessar's_Socks: Hm, so are you talking about a rules team separate from the PC?
(22:05:44) Smeagollum: yes i want to have a few teams who gonna support the pc. In the end the pc decide about what the teams bring up and then the teams will carry it out.
(22:07:20) Smeagollum: So there will be a team who'll host the crd, the formats and the rulings. They make suggestions and present that to the pc and then the pc decides.
(22:07:30) ChatBot: Elrohir has been logged out (Timeout).
(22:07:46) Elessar's_Socks: I was thinking most questions are brought up and discussed in the Archives.
(22:08:02) Smeagollum: Archives?
(22:08:14) Elessar's_Socks: The rules forum.
(22:08:40) Smeagollum: yes they were, but now with this chat I want to make a strategy.
(22:08:41) Elessar's_Socks: So what's left is to decide which way they go.
(22:08:47) Smeagollum: What will be our goal.
(22:09:07) Smeagollum: yep
(22:09:46) Smeagollum: But for that I need to have volunteers for that team. I know Disco and Hawkeye are in
(22:10:00) Smeagollum: and I think Elrohir agreed.
(22:10:09) Smeagollum: Not sure about Olorin.
(22:10:34) Elessar's_Socks: So this team answers the questions, and then passes them on to the PC?
(22:10:54) Smeagollum: Almost.
(22:11:17) Smeagollum: Their mission (don't find the corredt word)
(22:12:25) Smeagollum: will be to revise the crd, revise the x-list, the erratalist and the formats. What they propose will go to the pc and the pc willsee if what that team
(22:13:12) Smeagollum: suggested will be carried out. The team will also be responsable to carry it out.
(22:13:57) Smeagollum: In my opinion we need a few teams who will host a few things. Another team will be responsable for tournaments and such.
(22:14:26) Smeagollum: Lurtzy, you wanted to x the x-list?
(22:15:00) MR._Lurtzy: all cards should be made playable
(22:15:48) MR._Lurtzy: so there shouldn't be a need for the x-list
(22:15:56) Smeagollum: I agree on that. Do you (ES) think this should be the goal of the rulingsteam?
(22:16:21) Smeagollum: to make everything playable, that is..
(22:16:38) Elessar's_Socks: I have no problems with that.
(22:17:01) Elessar's_Socks: Although we need structure first.
(22:17:03) Smeagollum: That will mean massive errata...
(22:17:23) Smeagollum: okay.
(22:17:40) Smeagollum: but for now we have a goal already!
(22:18:51) Elessar's_Socks: Like I said in my post, though, we need to give the community a chance to contribute.
(22:19:16) Smeagollum: And how would you like to see that?
(22:19:48) Elessar's_Socks: For example, should errata/banning be by vote?
(22:20:06) Smeagollum: Not in my opinion.
(22:20:12) Elessar's_Socks: When the French X-List was released there was quite a bit of uproar.
(22:20:51) Smeagollum: I think we should listen to the forum. The rt will work on what they see and hear.
(22:21:00) Elessar's_Socks: If the PC releases errata/banned lists out of the blue, I'm not sure people will take to it.
(22:21:29) Smeagollum: they make a fix and propose that to the pc.
(22:21:59) Smeagollum: Then the pc can ask the playtesters (seperate team) to test it.
(22:22:48) Smeagollum: their findings will be also heared and then the pc can decide.
(22:23:43) Smeagollum: So in a way the people will have a vote in it. But in the end there should be one organ who will decide.
(22:24:23) Smeagollum: I hope I'm clear in what I mean. Very difficlt to discuss in a foreign language.
(22:24:52) Elessar's_Socks: It's clear.
(22:25:03) Smeagollum:
(22:25:51) Elessar's_Socks: Going back to the rules bit, the "CRD" is ready for input at any time.
(22:26:20) Elessar's_Socks: What's the next step?
(22:26:34) Smeagollum: What I don't want is that everybody gonna how do you say get involved about one card and it's errata. Then we keep doing as we are doing now and that's not what I want.
(22:27:01) Smeagollum: Please explain:(22:25:51) Elessar's_Socks: Going back to the rules bit, the "CRD" is ready for input at any time.
(22:27:17) Smeagollum: The smile should not be there!!!
(22:27:31) Elessar's_Socks: *LOL*
(22:28:14) Elessar's_Socks: I've been collecting rulings that might need clarification in a CRD.
(22:28:37) Smeagollum: Ah okay! That's good!
(22:28:57) MR._Lurtzy: are there a lot?
(22:29:14) Smeagollum: The rt would need that and then they could suggest that to the pc.
(22:29:36) Elessar's_Socks: Lurtzy, not too many.
(22:30:11) Elessar's_Socks: They don't cover errata to OP cards or new rulings like the Rule of 4 modification, but aim to back up existing rules documents.
(22:30:46) Elessar's_Socks: But the more eyes on it the better.
(22:31:15) Olorin: hi there
(22:31:25) MR._Lurtzy: yodles
(22:31:41) Elessar's_Socks: ...Which goes into those 3 questions: Who decides which way the rulings go, what makes it into a CRD, and who gets write access to it.
(22:31:43) Smeagollum: Is there also a clarrification about cards from fotr which are saying site 4 or site 5 and such. Because last time I had a discussion with somebody about using it in Austrian format.
(22:31:59) Elessar's_Socks: Hey there Olorin.
(22:32:05) Olorin: hi es
(22:32:07) Olorin: hi all
(22:32:14) Olorin: hmm
(22:32:17) Smeagollum: Hi Olorin! Welcome!
(22:32:24) Elessar's_Socks: No, it doesn't have that.
(22:32:36) Olorin: Thank you all guys... how far is the current status?
(22:32:38) Elessar's_Socks: There's a question about it?
(22:32:59) Olorin: something's going on?
(22:33:33) Elessar's_Socks: We're talking about setting up a rules team.
(22:33:41) Olorin: Did you already encircle the topics you wish to talk about now?
(22:33:46) Olorin: ah, ok
(22:33:53) Olorin: rules team...
(22:34:35) Olorin: I guess... you, Elessar's Socks, then Lem0nhead, Disco Stu and HawkeyeSPF would be the best for this job.
(22:34:46) Elessar's_Socks: (21:53:07) Smeagollum: In my opinion the team should check the rulings and the formats.
(21:53:44) Smeagollum: and advise (propose) the pc.
(21:54:17) Smeagollum: About repairing cards, Rulings, x-list and such.
(22:34:47) Olorin: ruling tricky questions, etc.
(22:35:16) Smeagollum: Well the pc should give a vision. The rt works it out and suggest it to the pc (they can ask the playtesting team about what they think) and after a period of testing they bring it to the pc and then decide what goes in a crd. But the rt will host the crd. Am I more clear now?
(22:35:53) Smeagollum: So the rt works it out and bring it to the pc and then it should be implemented by the rt.
(22:36:17) Olorin: concerning me, I wish to have word concerning card questions as far as I think I can value them pretty good - and concerning game mechanics, well sounds interesting to me... hehe, I already proved my skills (referring to Austrian format) 8)
(22:36:36) Olorin: k
(22:36:44) Olorin: this sounds logical to me
(22:36:54) Olorin: playtesting is important!
(22:37:07) Smeagollum: That's why I want you and your brother together with Discostu and Hawkeye spf in the rt team.
(22:37:37) Smeagollum: Yep. I think Mrlurtzy wants to be in the playtestteam
(22:37:48) MR._Lurtzy: yes I do
(22:37:53) Olorin: Well, I know Disco stu very well (in person)... and HawkeyeSpf is a REAL rules-expert!!! a worlds-level-judge
(22:38:23) Olorin: lurtzy, well... but keep for fingers from boromir... (sorry for that joke) :-)
(22:47:03) Olorin: hmm... chat is very slow at the moment...
(22:47:09) Smeagollum: Yep
(22:47:38) Smeagollum: We should tell that to the webteam
(22:47:55) Smeagollum: Okay back to topic.
(22:48:09) Smeagollum: So we agree on the structure?
(22:48:27) Olorin: topic: we need to get the RIGHT QUALIFIED guys according to their job...
(22:48:39) Olorin: structure sounds nice - but:
(22:48:45) Elessar's_Socks: I would also suggest Thranduil for the rules team, if he's interested.
(22:48:48) Olorin: you cannot involve to much people
(22:48:52) Smeagollum: Well.. so far I think we have 4.
(22:49:04) Smeagollum: Not more then 5.
(22:49:42) Smeagollum: I want Thranduil in the carddesignteam......8o
(22:49:58) Olorin: yap, sounds nice to me
(22:50:10) Elessar's_Socks: I want him on the rules team! Okay, we'll each take half!
(22:50:21) Smeagollum: Anyone else?
(22:50:28) Olorin: hmm
(22:50:57) Smeagollum: Which half do you want.. The left or the right.. or above or unde 
(22:51:13) Olorin: so, disco stu, hawkeye, ES and Lem0nhead
(22:51:18) Elessar's_Socks: 8o His brains.
(22:51:25) Olorin: don't know if all these guys wants to participate
(22:51:32) Olorin: don't know about lemon
(22:52:09) Elessar's_Socks: Maybe this should be asked on the forum?
(22:52:17) Olorin: yap
(22:52:26) Olorin: I suggest Elrohir for secretary
(22:53:27) Olorin: hello
(22:53:28) Olorin: ??
(22:53:31) Olorin: hmm
(22:53:44) Olorin: I would like to be the whitze wizard... what are his responsibilities?
(22:53:45) Olorin: hehe
(22:53:50) Smeagollum: Actually I did ask on the forum and if I can remember correctly ES didn't want to be in the rt.
(22:54:44) Smeagollum: at this moment we are talking only about the rt. From their midst one of them will be in the pc to represent that team.
(22:55:00) Olorin: k
(22:55:19) Smeagollum: So Es? What do you want?
(22:55:32) MR._Lurtzy: which team will revise formats, xlists, and such
(22:55:38) Olorin: es is also good for game mechanics hehe
(22:55:52) Elessar's_Socks: *LOL* ...I'm trying to remember what I said in the forum, but I don't think it was that.
(22:56:13) Smeagollum: Well you did sent that on a pm
(22:56:19) Elessar's_Socks: Although if the rules team also playtests, then I should probably not be part of it (seeing that I don't currently play).
(22:56:42) Elessar's_Socks: Oh, that was for the card design team (definitely out).
(22:57:45) MR._Lurtzy: "which team will revise formats, xlists, and such"
(22:58:15) Smeagollum: You won't playtest. You'll be responsable for revising formats, xlists, and such
(22:58:30) Smeagollum: The rt is Lurtzy.
(22:58:39) ChatBot: Olorin has been logged out (Timeout).
(22:59:10) Elessar's_Socks: Is there a playtesting team?
(22:59:15) Smeagollum: So far we have Olorin, Elrohir, Discostu and Hawkeyespf for this team.
(22:59:35) Smeagollum: Yes there is. But that will be a different department.
(23:00:07) Elessar's_Socks: It seems like the playtesting team will come up with a result, and then give it to the rules team to implement in a CRD.
(23:01:06) Smeagollum: But first the rt will have to bring up new idea's or changes to be able to playtest them.
(23:02:02) Smeagollum: MrLurtzy will be in the playtestteam. As mentioned before..
(23:02:26) Elessar's_Socks: I was thinking the rules team makes sure the game is sound, rules-wise.
(23:03:00) Olorin: chat
(23:03:02) Olorin: error
(23:03:09) Olorin: hmm
(23:03:13) Elessar's_Socks: I will clarify questions, and tackle stuff like pre-errata Eowyn, Northwoman, who actually breaks the game.
(23:03:22) Elessar's_Socks: "It will..."
(23:03:27) Olorin: yap
(23:03:39) Smeagollum: Yes but they will also be responsable for the format's and such. One can't be without the other.
(23:03:48) Olorin: eowyn is OP
(23:04:01) Olorin: hmm
(23:04:03) Olorin: right
(23:04:10) Olorin: needs to be two
(23:04:15) Olorin: or one
(23:04:19) Smeagollum: Didn't play in weeks.. can'teven remember her...
(23:04:26) Olorin: with force to keep both responsibilities
(23:04:55) Olorin: guys... there won't be to much people for all this jobs...
(23:05:08) Olorin: only a few guys need to manage this, I think
(23:05:24) Olorin: even if having more than just one role
(23:05:34) Olorin: but without getting a monarchie :-)
(23:05:39) Olorin: so...
(23:05:47) Smeagollum: 1) Knights of justice:
a) Maintanance, Checking & Updating Formats & CRD
b) Maintanance, Checking & Updating Errata, X-, R-list
(23:06:00) Olorin: yeah
(23:06:22) Olorin: who in the council represents that department?
(23:06:25) Olorin: wanna be me
(23:06:33) Olorin: ah
(23:06:38) Olorin: chat not working
(23:06:45) Olorin: ok then
(23:06:52) MR._Lurtzy: I would like to help with that
(23:07:08) Olorin: k - support is welcome - yeehaaa
(23:07:11) Smeagollum: Well actually I want Disco and Hawkeyespf in the pc....
(23:07:45) Smeagollum: One to represent.. and one to take over my place in time.
(23:07:51) Elessar's_Socks: Gah, bad example. Had to look it up. I meant, pre-errata Eowyn removed too many keywords, including minion race. That's what I meant by breaking the game (not OP).
(23:07:54) MR._Lurtzy: No, I'm talking about maintaining the x-list
(23:08:41) Smeagollum: I'm getting confused.....
(23:09:05) Olorin: hmm guys... in austria it's getting very late... and Olorin is about to get up very early in the morning... got a tough schedule tomorrow... so... will have to leave now... I suggest for next time:
(23:09:17) Olorin: set up a detailed schedule what to discuss...
(23:09:32) Smeagollum: The rt team (knights of justice) will be responsable for: a) Maintanance, Checking & Updating Formats & CRD
b) Maintanance, Checking & Updating Errata, X-, R-list.
(23:09:37) Olorin: and in 5 minutes we shall be able to get through that topic then
(23:09:50) MR._Lurtzy: what I am saying is that I want something to do with the maintaining for the x-list and formats
(23:09:59) Smeagollum: To be able to do so. They need the playtestteam to advise if something works out or not.
(23:11:45) Elessar's_Socks: Right, so that comes back to, wouldn't the rules team and playtest teams be separate?
(23:11:47) Olorin: icq, etc. would be better, I guess
(23:11:54) Smeagollum: So the rt works things out and let them checked by the PT. They give their results to the rt and to the pc. Then rt presents this to the pc and pc decides. Then rt implement thing.
(23:12:34) Smeagollum: It will be seperate teams. Becuase we'll need the playtestteam also for new virtual sets.
(23:12:55) Smeagollum: to test these..
(23:14:57) Elessar's_Socks: So then the rules team comes up with a fix for Eowyn ("game text keywords"), passes it to the playtest team to check, then then the PT team reports back and the RT updates the CRD?
(23:14:59) Smeagollum: Everybody gone?
(23:15:34) Smeagollum: Almost. PC have the last vote in it.
(23:15:47) ChatBot: MR._Lurtzy logs into the Chat.
(23:15:50) ChatBot: Olorin has been logged out (Timeout).
(23:16:20) Smeagollum: For instance if pt and rt disagree
(23:17:20) Smeagollum: so you forget one step and that's the pc.
(23:18:00) Elessar's_Socks: All right.
(23:19:05) Smeagollum: the rules team comes up with a fix for Eowyn ("game text keywords"), passes it to the playtest team to check, then then the PT team reports back and the RT presents their findings and solutions to the pc. Pc give red or green light and then it get's into the crd (or not).
(23:19:24) Smeagollum: by the rt.
(23:20:36) Smeagollum: Okay I gona stop this session. Can we somehow record this as a topic or such so that others can have their say later on?
summary:
The Rulingsteam (AKA Knights of Gondor) is a team that will support the Playerscouncil. The gonna be responsable for: a) Maintanance, Checking & Updating Formats & CRD
b) Maintanance, Checking & Updating Errata, X-, R-list.
From their midst one of them will be in the pc to represent that team. Their goal is to make every card playable.
The idea is that the RT scan for problems (Arisen during tournaments & on the forum) and think about a fix.
The Rt will work closely with a due to form Playtestteam. After the RT thought out a fix or a change of rule they send it to the Playtestteam. The playtestteam give their findings back to the RT and to the PC. If nescesarry the RT revise it and send it again to the PT. Then the RT presents it to the PC. After they've given aproval it will be implemented in the crd.
Example: the rules team comes up with a fix for Eowyn ("game text keywords"), passes it to the playtest team to check, then then the PT team reports back and the RT presents their findings and solutions to the pc. Pc give red or green light and then it get's into the crd (or not).
So actually there are a few phases:
- Scanningphase (RT responsability)
- Plan/fixphase (RT responsability)
- Testphase (PT responsability)
- 2nd Plan/fixphase (RT responsability)
- 2nd Testphase (PT responsability)
- Aprovalphase (PC responsability)
- Implementationphase (RT responsability)
The team will content 5 members.So far we have 4 volunteers for the RT:
Olorin
DiscoStu
HawkeyeSPF
ElrohirSo for the RT (aka KotWT) we still need one person. There were names mentioned, but it's steel possible to apply. *
Elessar's_Socks has been collecting rulings that might need clarification in a CRD.
So far the summaring.
What I almost forgot to mention (I just see it now) the RT can give an order to the carddesignteam for thinking out an errata for broken cards. In that way they can concentrate just on the rulings & CRD. In that way the fix will be worked out by the carddesignteam, but the responsability will stay at the RT.
* Not part of the discussion, but I actually would like to have one of the French be involved.
Please feel free to comment. You can comment this till the 4th of july. After that I want to close this topic and implement it in the PC-strategy.
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Topic: First chatsession Council of the white tree: Chat about Rulings & CRD (Read 5852 times)