Candidates for a CRD - rules issues

[Gil-Estel]

But on the other hand, the character still has a base strenght, eventhough it isn't used in that particular skirmish. Same with Bounder, I agree with Elrohir. I think you can prevent a character being overwhelmed, unless his strength is trippled, not his vitality.

[Elessar's Socks]

I still think if you play final triumph and then One Last Surprise, OLS will have no effect.

I hear you, Lurtzy--that thought crossed my mind, too. If a card gets played that says to resolve using resistance instead of vitality, and I'm currently resolving using strength, I'd probably stick to strength. Similarly if OLS says to resolve using resistance instead of strength, and I'm currently resolving using vitality, then you could make a fair argument that OLS has no effect.

I think the breakdown for that would be:

OLS/Final Triumph: resistance vs. vitality
Final Triumph/OLS: vitality vs. vitality

Not sure what the original intent of these cards were, but I guess I'm leaning towards that.


EDIT - Corrected OLS/Final Triumph

[Elgar]

I still think if you play final triumph and then One Last Surprise, OLS will have no effect.

I hear you, Lurtzy--that thought crossed my mind, too. If a card gets played that says to resolve using resistance instead of vitality, and I'm currently resolving using strength, I'd probably stick to strength. Similarly if OLS says to resolve using resistance instead of strength, and I'm currently resolving using vitality, then you could make a fair argument that OLS has no effect.

I think the breakdown for that would be:

OLS/Final Triumph: resistance vs. strength
Final Triumph/OLS: vitality vs. vitality

Not sure what the original intent of these cards were, but I guess I'm leaning towards that.

Wouldn't OLS/final triumph be resistance vs strength vitality, based off of the "do everything of the effect you can do" "rule"?

I'm ok with this ruling.  I think it's a little ambiguous on if OLS and final triumph can modify the other and this is easier to understand.

My main qualm with it is the note from Final Triumph: "As a result, none of the cards that previously had an effect on strength during a skirmish have any effect on a skirmish in which this card is played."  Does this mean that in OLS/final triumph, that as a result of final triumph, OLS would have no effect, since it had an effect on strength (namely replacing it with G's resistance)?

edit: see strike through

[jdizzy001]

Elessar, thanks for the rabbit stew work.  I'm guessing we came to the conclusion that the latter half of the cards text referring to the fellowship companions, superceds the "bearer must be..." ruling?  That sounds great to me.  Then again, if you think about it, I guess this was a case of card text trumping rules.

Nevertheless, thanks for the effort everyone

[Elessar's Socks]

Wouldn't OLS/final triumph be resistance vs strength, based off of the "do everything of the effect you can do" "rule"?

You mean resistance vs. vitality? What you have is the same thing I had, only I meant vitality. I'm having trouble getting all these values straight.

So yes, Final Triumph fails to modify the companion's resolution because it uses "instead of strength", but it does modify the minion's resolution because you complete as much of the effects as possible.

My main qualm with it is the note from Final Triumph: "As a result, none of the cards that previously had an effect on strength during a skirmish have any effect on a skirmish in which this card is played."  Does this mean that in OLS/final triumph, that as a result of final triumph, OLS would have no effect, since it had an effect on strength (namely replacing it with G's resistance)?

I wasn't sure what to make of it. I think a previously played skirmish pump for example would remain in effect, so maybe by "any effect on a skirmish" they meant the skirmish resolution...?

Elessar, thanks for the rabbit stew work.  I'm guessing we came to the conclusion that the latter half of the cards text referring to the fellowship companions, superceds the "bearer must be..." ruling?  That sounds great to me.  Then again, if you think about it, I guess this was a case of card text trumping rules.

Nevertheless, thanks for the effort everyone

I think so far we're in agreement that it can transfer to fellowship companions, yes. The erratum was Hawk's idea.

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First two posts updated. Final Triumph and OLS currently (hopefully) match what's said above, but they might need different versions for the different arguments.

With Bounder I'm wondering if he creates a second check or modifies the default check. Creating a second check would mean the Hobbit isn't overwhelmed unless the minion's vitality both doubles the Hobbit's vitality and triples the Hobbit's strength. Modifying the default check would mean Bounder has the rules read like they say strength has to be tripled, which is then converted to vitality (Bounder's text itself would not read like it says vitality). Does either one make or not make sense for sure?