Seeking new foes

[Cw0rk]

Seeking new foes says 'Discard this condition during the regroup phase'. When do I discard it; at the start or at the end of the regroup phase? Can I choose when?

[hrcho]

I believe you can choose when to discard it, as long as it's the regroup phase.

Could you please tell me what kind of strategy do you have in mind around that card. I have it, but I have no idea what to do with it. It doesn't seem like "rare" quality card to me, but then again there's The weight of a legacy so I could be wrong about understanding what "rare" quality of cards is. 

[Thranduil]

Could you please tell me what kind of strategy do you have in mind around that card. I have it, but I have no idea what to do with it. It doesn't seem like "rare" quality card to me, but then again there's The weight of a legacy so I could be wrong about understanding what "rare" quality of cards is. 

It's definitely a rare-worthy card. I think you're misinterpreting the difference between rarity and power level. Rare cards don't have to be powerful (this is great example), but they have to feel rare, do something impressive, interesting or flashy. This card does something hardly any other card in the game does (allows the Shadow players to decide the order of skirmishes) which definitely makes it feel rare, but also makes it not very good. I've often thought about that card while playing my decks and it turns out that in a lot of cases the order you fight is the difference between life and death. But it's still rare-worthy.

More to the point, there also need to be powerful commons and uncommons, some more powerful than many rares. For example, Captured by the Ring - arguably the best [gollum] card ever printed, at common. It doesn't do anything off-the-wall or flashy, it needs to be common because it's an important part of any deck that needs Gollum, and so it fits nicely at common, while still (arguably) outstripping Promise Keeping and They Stole It in power!

As for the actual rules issue, I'm pretty sure that whenever a card says "Discard during" or "Discard in" the regroup phase, it means at the start of the regroup phase.

Thranduil

[hrcho]

It's definitely a rare-worthy card. I think you're misinterpreting the difference between rarity and power level. Rare cards don't have to be powerful (this is great example), but they have to feel rare, do something impressive, interesting or flashy.

I guess I never looked at things that way.  for that. Thanks. Although I still believe they made a mistake with The weight of a legacy.

This card does something hardly any other card in the game does (allows the Shadow players to decide the order of skirmishes) which definitely makes it feel rare, but also makes it not very good. I've often thought about that card while playing my decks and it turns out that in a lot of cases the order you fight is the difference between life and death.

I agree that the order you fight is very important, which is why I asked the question about strategy in the first place. I am still trying to find a good way to implement that card in a deck without getting my #$&*@! whooped. The best try so far is with Guthlaf, Herald

As for the actual rules issue, I'm pretty sure that whenever a card says "Discard during" or "Discard in" the regroup phase, it means at the start of the regroup phase.

Here I must disagree. "Cards do what they say." Unless there is an errata, and I think there is not, you can discard it at any time during the regroup phase. The card would have said "At the start of regroup phase" if it meant so. It also seems ok to use the card during the regroup phase (by reference, if not by it's own effect) but cannot keep it if you plan to run. There are 3 different times in each phase. At the start, during, and at the end. They shouldn't be identified.

[Thranduil]

Hmmm... I may have been thinking of "until the regroup phase" actions which stop working at the start of the regroup phase (like the Ruling Ring, for example).

But, I still suspect that the same thing is happening here: "discard this condition during the regroup phase" could mean as soon as it is the regroup phase, you must discard it, which would be at the start of the phase. (For reference, there are other examples of this wording in Blood of Numenor and Not Feared in Sunlight.)

I don't know for sure, but this is my suspicion.

Thranduil

[Cw0rk]

Well. I wish someone could come up with some official ruling... otherwise, let's say I want to use it with Aragorn, Defender of Free Peoples, I can potentially create some conflicts if we have different views. :S

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

The way I read it, it's a mandatory action with "discard this condition" as the effect and "during the regroup phase" as the condition. Thus, as soon as the condition ("during the regroup phase") is met, e.g., as soon as you are in the regroup phase, the action ("discard this condition") must occur.

Thus you must discard the condition before any optional regroup phase actions, but after "at the start of the regroup phase" actions (because the start of the regroup phase occurs before you are actually in the regroup phase).

[Cw0rk]

The way I read it, it's a mandatory action with "discard this condition" as the effect and "during the regroup phase" as the condition. Thus, as soon as the condition ("during the regroup phase") is met, e.g., as soon as you are in the regroup phase, the action ("discard this condition") must occur.

Thus you must discard the condition before any optional regroup phase actions, but after "at the start of the regroup phase" actions (because the start of the regroup phase occurs before you are actually in the regroup phase).

That sounds good.

[Elessar's Socks]

My take on it is that "Discard this condition during the regroup phase" would trigger at the start of the regroup phase (the earliest point during the regroup phase where actions can be taken), at which point it would be discarded. Meaning it's equivalent to "Discard this condition at the start of the regroup phase."

[Thranduil]

My take on it is that "Discard this condition during the regroup phase" would trigger at the start of the regroup phase (the earliest point during the regroup phase where actions can be taken), at which point it would be discarded. Meaning it's equivalent to "Discard this condition at the start of the regroup phase."

That's what I thought. Though I don't remember a specific ruling on this.

Thranduil

[Elgar]

Thus you must discard the condition before any optional regroup phase actions, but after "at the start of the regroup phase" actions (because the start of the regroup phase occurs before you are actually in the regroup phase).

I disagree with this. 
The start of the regroup phase must occur during the regroup phase, otherwise what phase is it in? 
Since the start of the regroup phase must occur during the regroup phase, it must already be the regroup phase when the start of the regroup phase triggers.
Therefore, I would argue that you would discard the condition *at (or before)* the start of regroup triggered actions.

[Kralik]

I agree - start of regroup. A related issue in my mind is this:

Traitor's Voice. If the Freeps starts with an exhausted Frodo at a sanctuary and then heals him, is the move limit still -1? Yes, because at the start of their turn, the condition was immediately active.

[hrcho]

Sam, Great Elf Warrior convinced me. It happens right after everything that says "at the start of the regroup". However, Elgar is also correct about the start of the regroup phase being the part of the regroup phase.

"At the start of" part of any phase is practically a phase within a phase.

Traitor's Voice. If the Freeps starts with an exhausted Frodo at a sanctuary and then heals him, is the move limit still -1? Yes, because at the start of their turn, the condition was immediately active.

Here, there is no doubt. The text says "while", which means if the Ring-bearer heals, he is no longer exhausted and if there is less than 5 burdens Traitor's Voice takes no effect.

[MR. Lurtzy]

While is used if an effect is continuous.

If Frodo is healed, the move limit is no longer -1.

[ket_the_jet]

Move limit modifiers last for the whole turn. So Kralik was correct in his interpretation of Traitor's Voice.
-wtk