Bilbo questions

[hrcho]

I was trying to build a Bilbo, BOTB deck and a couple of questions popped up:

1) I saw another topic about Bilbo, BOTB and someone said one could use his text to play NFFATROD during to regroup phase. Is it possible to play a skirmish event during the regroup phase?

2) Can one draw a card using the text of Red Book of Westmarch if the tale played is RBoW itself?

[chompers]

For question 1 - i would say no. It is similar to another debate recently about a site that allowed you to play weather cards. Link below:

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,3627.0.html

Events cannot be played in a phase that does not match their phase action - it says so in the Rulebook. That said there was still debate over this.

For question 2 - Red Book of Westmarch must be in play when you play a tale to draw a card. As it is unique, you can't play additional copies to draw cards from the first. The first time you play it you wouldn't draw a card, because the effect of the card comes into play after you play the card - if that makes sense. At least that's how i see it.

[Smeagollum]

For question 1 - i would say no. It is similar to another debate recently about a site that allowed you to play weather cards. Link below:

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,3627.0.html

Events cannot be played in a phase that does not match their phase action - it says so in the Rulebook. That said there was still debate over this.

Are you sure? It's still a tale so if you add  a burden you should be able to do it. Seems legal to me.

[Kralik]

Are you sure? It's still a tale so if you add  a burden you should be able to do it. Seems legal to me.

Did you read the cited example? Exactly the same question, and it was hashed and rehashed and argued and reargued... the end of the matter is, events can ONLY be played in their relevant phase. No exceptions, unlike other card types.

[legolas3333]

in my understanding, events are more or less one-time special abilities, so you cannot use a skirmish special ability in regroup or vice-versa.

[Smeagollum]

Are you sure? It's still a tale so if you add  a burden you should be able to do it. Seems legal to me.

Did you read the cited example? Exactly the same question, and it was hashed and rehashed and argued and reargued... the end of the matter is, events can ONLY be played in their relevant phase. No exceptions, unlike other card types.

You still not convinced me. Diversion is also a regroup event and only the gametext makes it possible to play it in the skirmish, which is not the relevant phase. So there's the exception on the very same matter already! It wouldn't suprise me if you can use Bilbo to bend the rules by using his gametext. Same counts for your example. And actually also for: Dammed Gate-stream

Don't get me wrong. I think it should not be possible, but because of diversion I think it's legal. Otherwise Diversion allways would be illegal.

Ps: And a bit less aggresive woudl be appreciated

[Elessar's Socks]

For the Mark is another, but such events specifically mention they can be played in another phase.

As I see it, attempting to play NFFATROD in the regroup with Bilbo is like trying to break the Rule of 4 with Delving. Bilbo's text doesn't imply it can break the event rule, so therefore NFFATROD has to work within that framework.

[Smeagollum]

For the Mark is another, but such events specifically mention they can be played in another phase.

As I see it, attempting to play NFFATROD in the regroup with Bilbo is like trying to break the Rule of 4 with Delving. Bilbo's text doesn't imply it can break the event rule, so therefore NFFATROD has to work within that framework.

Get what you mean. Thing is you can say that's it not an event but a tale and he can play a tale in the regroup. He doesn't imply that the keyword is relevant for it.

It's kind of same discussion as mentioned here: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,3900.msg45820.html#msg45820

[Elessar's Socks]

Not seeing the basis here for ignoring the card type; trying to play NFFATROD in the regroup counts as trying to play an event in the regroup.

I checked the discussion you linked, but I'm not sure what part of it you're relating to this.

[Smeagollum]

Not seeing the basis here for ignoring the card type; trying to play NFFATROD in the regroup counts as trying to play an event in the regroup.

I checked the discussion you linked, but I'm not sure what part of it you're relating to this.

For the Mark is another, but such events specifically mention they can be played in another phase.

Bilbo mention that a tale can be played in the regroup. It doesn't say that it must be in the specific phase. So The base for it that it not specifies a card type.. it specifies a tale and this can be any tale in this game.  It doesn't mind if the text is on the same card like Diversion. It's the same situation. I think the rule is in contradiction with itself here.

I'm relating it to the part that you ignore uniqueness with Hobbit of Tales

[TelTura]

the way I see it, unless the card itself explicitly says to "ignore that card's game text", you can't go against the card itself.  If you were at the Bridge of Khazad-dum, you wouldn't be able to play, say, The Balrog, Flame of Udun, without spotting a moria orc.  That's the same thing you're trying to do...play a card without paying its cost, whether it be twilight or exertion or spotting or waiting for the correct phase.  So even though Bilbo says "play a tale", he doesn't say "play a tale, (and if an event, as if it were played in the correct phase)". 

[legolas3333]

There are no rules that states that a condition may not be played in the regroup phase, it happens with cards like some secret art of flame, but thats because playing conditions is not limited to the fellowship phase while playing events is limited to the phase it says.
For a card to be played all requirements must be filled, in order to play NFFATROD in the regroup phase it must also be the skirmish phase BECAUSE it is a skirmish event. So by playing NFFATROD in the regroup phase you must avoid a requirement, that it must be the skirmish phase.

So basically, I agree with TelTura

[Smeagollum]

Well this can become a philosofical discussion , because he doesn't say it otherwise as well. Diversion still does the same: It doesn't say ignore that cards gametext. I realy think this is a flaw in the gametext. Just like a hobbit of tales.

[Kralik]

I don't know why you keep referencing "Hobbit of Tales", as it is not a real card and therefore not indicative of correct rulings interpretations.

[ket_the_jet]

I am going to end this discussion.

Like it was said before, but the Rule Book specifically states an event may not be played outside of its phase. Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled does not circumvent that rule; rather, it allows you to play an elligble card during that phase. I liked the Balrog, Flame of Udun example. Even though Bridge of Khazad-Dum allows you to play the Balrog, it does not take away other conditions necessary to playing Flame of Udun.

To continue re-hashing already-made points, there is no rule that states that Conditions may only be played during the Fellowship phase; however, that is the only phase that actively let's you play them without another card allowing you to play it (such a Treebeard, Keeper of the Watchwood).

Here is another example. If you have The Tale of the Great Ring in play, you may not use Bilbo to play another copy during the regroup phase because there is a specific rule regarding unique cards. Bilbo says "play a tale" but as I said, it is required that the Tale is elligible for play.

Events are not elligible for play outside of their phase. Thus, you cannot play Nine-Fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom in the Regroup phase.
-wtk