Light & Shadow Block Review

[Thranduil]

I'm trying to remember, is a character "currently skirmishing" one that is "assigned to a skirmish"? (for some reason, I think not, but it has been awhile).  In which case, Aggressors without Lurker are kind of useless unless you manage to get out a whole lot of them (which means you have less shadow in hand for them to even help out).  In other words, I don't see any cause for aggressor to be used over Ambush .

Yes, all characters are assigned to skirmishes until their particular skirmish is resolved. And I didn't reintroduce ambush until the second set.

Do you know why the ringwraith equivalent events were hardly ever played?

Actually, this is a semi-reprint of the card Southern Spies. I also don't care whether it's a good card or not, I just think it's quite a nice design!

Bordering between useless and OP, especially since it can hit the ring-bearer and cause all kinds of rules headaches.  I'd at least put in a "if a companion lost a skirmish..." just to keep it a little balanced.

There are no rules headaches: the Ring-bearer is undiscardable.

You do intend for that to be ANY minion?

Yes I did very much intend for that to be any minion. I am a strong believer that too much cultural enforcement harms deckbuilding (which is one of the purposes of aggressor - a keyword that allows you to play the biggest cards from different cultures). If you look at MTG, for example, there are so much fewer cards that require you to have particular colours than in LotR (obviously, MTG also has the built in enforcement of colour requirements, but playing 5 colours is really not that difficult).

Well this just made the non RB Isildur unplayable.

No worse than Wielding the Ring or any of the other resistance reducing conditions. I'm not sure what your problem is here...

Maybe add "or discard this condition" on there just to give it some added omph for site 9.

Hmmm... It's obviously a cycle based on Song of the Shire et al from SoG and they don't discard themselves so I'm not keen on the idea.

lol I think we may have different views on what's elegant.  Can you at least give me an idea of the mechanic you intend toward the "scaling" cards?

I don't intend a mechanic - it's just 1 card really. But you'll see it at some point (I'm waiting for you to get through the rest of the Shadow cards before posting and ).

[Cw0rk]

How many cultures are left to review before this set can be playtested? It would be fun to have them on GCCG for those who would like to try it. I dunno if it is possible. I'm not a fan of post-Shadows, but if you build me a decklist with cards from this set, I'd be please to playtest them online.

[Thranduil]

How many cultures are left to review before this set can be playtested? It would be fun to have them on GCCG for those who would like to try it. I dunno if it is possible. I'm not a fan of post-Shadows, but if you build me a decklist with cards from this set, I'd be please to playtest them online.

Cool! Wonderful! We just need and and then we're done. I'm also working on very easy (and legal, albeit not very pretty) printouts.

[simplegarak]

Oh, also you did realize that some of your "play during skirmish" minions are not coming out fierce, right?

Yes I did! I'm fine with that; most of that lot are those that have event-like abilities tagged onto them.

[Thranduil]

Oh, also you did realize that some of your "play during skirmish" minions are not coming out fierce, right?

Yes I did! I'm fine with that; most of that lot are those that have event-like abilities tagged onto them.

By the way, I accidentally clicked Modify instead of Quote on your post and then deleted everything on it! Please forgive me, I'm very tired!

[simplegarak]

Oh, also you did realize that some of your "play during skirmish" minions are not coming out fierce, right?

Yes I did! I'm fine with that; most of that lot are those that have event-like abilities tagged onto them.

By the way, I accidentally clicked Modify instead of Quote on your post and then deleted everything on it! Please forgive me, I'm very tired!

I knew you couldn't handle the criticism!

I'll get you next time Thranduil!!!!

[simplegarak]

L&S (2, 1/0/1)
•Saruman, Blinded by Greed
Minion • Wizard
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Sit: 4
Traitor. (Traitor is unloaded).
While you can spot 2 Shadow cultures, Saruman's twilight cost is -2.
When you play Saruman, you may foresee 3. If you foresee a Shadow artifact, you may take it into hand. (To foresee 3, look at the top 3 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards on top of your draw deck in any order and the rest on the bottom of your draw deck in any order).
"‘Saruman is coming for the Ring.'"
L C 79

Shouldn't you add a "reveal" in there somewhere just to cut down on cheating possibilities:?

•Saruman, Fallen Istar
Minion • Wizard
Str: 8
Vit: 4
SIt: 4
Traitor.
While skirmishing a companion with resistance 6 or more, Saruman is strength +3 and damage +1.
Any Phase: Exert Saruman to make a companion (except the Ring-bearer) resistance +2 or -2.
"‘Our list of allies grows thin.'"
L R 80

The 'any phase' bugs me.  Do we have a precedent for multiple phase actions? (I could swear there's one)  I'd say just pick two phases for him.

TW (6, 2/2/2)
Agent of Saruman
Minion • Man
Str: 6
Vit: 2
Sit: 3
Traitor.
Response: If the Ring-bearer puts on The One Ring, exert this minion to reveal the top 3 cards of your draw deck (or 5 cards if you can spot a corrupted companion). Exert a companion for each Shadow card revealed. Place the revealed cards on the bottom of your deck in any order. (Companions with resistance 0 are corrupted).
T U 44

A directed, possibly 5 exertions could get OP in some decks (especially as you're designing this set to be rainbow friendly).  Could limit it in the following ways:
Freep player picks
You pick 1 companion and exert them x times
Can only exert companions meeting a condition

•Gríma, Treacherous Servant
Minion • Man
Str: 4
Vit: 3
Sit: 3
Traitor.
Shadow: Exert Gríma to foresee 2. If you foresee a Shadow condition, you may reveal it to make each unbound companion resistance -2 until the regroup phase. Take that condition into your hand. (To foresee 2, look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards on top of your draw deck in any order, and the rest beneath your draw deck in any order).
T C 46

Should be phrased, "...until the regroup phase and take that condition into hand."

•The Palantír of Orthanc, Dangerous Tool
Artifact • Support Area
When you play The Palantír of Orthanc, each player may foresee 4. (To foresee 4, look at the top 4 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards on top of your draw deck in any order, and the rest beneath your draw deck in any order).
At the start of the maneuver phase, you may spot Saruman to look at the top 2 cards of each draw deck; replace them in any order.
"‘We do not know who else may be watching.'"
T R 47

Um... a little TOO powerful there (especially combined with follower Saruman).  Just let it pick 1 draw deck at start of maneuver or place back cards in the exact order they were taken.

Sorcery of Orthanc
Event • Shadow
(You choose the value of . Except when you play this card, its twilight cost is ).
Spell.
To play, spot an card in play or in your discard pile.
Discard conditions with total twilight costs equal to the value of .
T R 49

Way, WAY too powerful as you gave every shadow side a Sleep, C, since you can discard the first one you draw to feed the later ones.

Also, I assume you mean to phrase it this way:
"Discard each condition with a twilight cost of X."

Spy of Saruman
Minion • Man
Str: 6
Vit: 2
Sit: 3
Traitor.
While this minion is assigned to a skirmish, each Free Peoples event is twilight cost +1 (or +2 if assigned to a corrupted companion). (Companions with resistance 0 are corrupted).
T C 50

A 6/2 without Lurker on this is useless.  "Gee, I'll assign him to... well just about any of my companions, they'll beat him up first try then I'll play events in all the other skirmishes without a penalty."

BL (4, 1/1/2)
•Lotho Sackville-Baggins, Chief Shirriff
Minion • Hobbit
Str: 3
Vit: 4
Sit: 2
Traitor. (Traitor is unloaded).
When you play Lotho Sackville-Baggins, you may take a traitor minion into hand from your draw deck.
Assignment: Assign Lotho Sackville-Baggins to a companion. The Free Peoples player may add a burden to prevent this and assign Lotho Sackville-Baggins.
B R 52

Again, draw deck stuff is great... until you start reaching the end game and realize all of your best cards are already spent.  Should usually have at least some discard retrieval options on there just so they're not useless past site 6.

[gk1964]

•Pippin, Thain of the Shire
Companion • Hobbit
Str: 3
Vit: 4
Res: 8
Unyielding. Valiant. (Pippin's resistance is not reduced by the number of burdens).
While you can spot 4 companions with resistance 8 or more, Pippin is strength +3 and cannot take wounds in skirmishes.
L U 154

You make him unable to be wounded at the same time you make it harder to overwhelm him?  Very very bad.  Only 1 wound per skirmish at least."

[Thranduil]

Shouldn't you add a "reveal" in there somewhere just to cut down on cheating possibilities:?

Yes I should! Good catch.

A directed, possibly 5 exertions could get OP in some decks (especially as you're designing this set to be rainbow friendly).  Could limit it in the following ways:
Freep player picks
You pick 1 companion and exert them x times
Can only exert companions meeting a condition

Yeah I'll work that out.

Um... a little TOO powerful there (especially combined with follower Saruman).  Just let it pick 1 draw deck at start of maneuver or place back cards in the exact order they were taken.

I'll probably let you do it to 1 player.

Way, WAY too powerful as you gave every shadow side a Sleep, C, since you can discard the first one you draw to feed the later ones.

Also, I assume you mean to phrase it this way:
"Discard each condition with a twilight cost of X."

Interesting point. I might take out that bit then. But I didn't mean your phrasing: I mean, total up the twilight costs of the conditions up to a total of X and discard them.

You make him unable to be wounded at the same time you make it harder to overwhelm him?  Very very bad.  Only 1 wound per skirmish at least.

I'm assuming you're bringing to my attention that I haven't changed him. I think he's fine - yes he's very powerful, but that's also fine. He's also fairly easy to disrupt I feel. But there should be powerful cards and terrible cards, and I'm absolutely fine having that Pippin as one of the more powerful set.

Thranduil

[gk1964]

You make him unable to be wounded at the same time you make it harder to overwhelm him?  Very very bad.  Only 1 wound per skirmish at least.

I'm assuming you're bringing to my attention that I haven't changed him. I think he's fine - yes he's very powerful, but that's also fine. He's also fairly easy to disrupt I feel. But there should be powerful cards and terrible cards, and I'm absolutely fine having that Pippin as one of the more powerful set.

Thranduil
[/quote]

Actually no. my comment got lost somewhere.

I have made most of the cards from this block for use in family games of LOTR. This Pippin is very powerful but is vulnerable to both conditions and minions that you have created in this block that can be played during skirmishes that reduce resistance.

When this has happened multiple wounding or overwhelming is usually the outcome.

There are some that are a bit OP from our gameplay experience if you are interested.
gk

[simplegarak]

Way, WAY too powerful as you gave every shadow side a Sleep, C, since you can discard the first one you draw to feed the later ones.

Also, I assume you mean to phrase it this way:
"Discard each condition with a twilight cost of X."

Interesting point. I might take out that bit then. But I didn't mean your phrasing: I mean, total up the twilight costs of the conditions up to a total of X and discard them.

Still very bad...
1) Every condition will always be eaten by it.
2) Creates rules headahces with the phrasing, I mean - what happens if you can't discard enough to equal X?  Does the whole thing fizzle?  Do you have to discard shadow cards then?
3) Slows the game way, WAY down (at a point where it's probably slowed up anyway with calculations) as the Shadow player has to get every twilight cost from the Freep player, calculate out what he wants to hit and what he can...

I think Lady Redeemed caused less fights than this card would.

Also, something I just realized, how would aggressor work on these X twilight cards? You have 3 aggressors assigned, does that mean you get an innate +3 to any X you play?  Again, headache inducing.

[Thranduil]

I have made most of the cards from this block for use in family games of LOTR. This Pippin is very powerful but is vulnerable to both conditions and minions that you have created in this block that can be played during skirmishes that reduce resistance.

When this has happened multiple wounding or overwhelming is usually the outcome.

There are some that are a bit OP from our gameplay experience if you are interested.
gk

Wow cool! I love that you've actually played with my cards - not even I've done that! Please tell me of your experiences. I was going to release a set of easy-to-print cards when the whole block was reviewed.

Also, something I just realized, how would aggressor work on these X twilight cards? You have 3 aggressors assigned, does that mean you get an innate +3 to any X you play?  Again, headache inducing.

Another reason why I'm using the cards instead of All Life Flees - because it works very well with aggressor. It's not that complicated - MTG does that sort of thing fairly often.

I will think about that card and get back to you. It's always the obvious things like costing conditions that you forget... I might actually go with your misreading of the card!

Thranduil

[simplegarak]

Another reason why I'm using the cards instead of All Life Flees - because it works very well with aggressor. It's not that complicated - MTG does that sort of thing fairly often.

Dude, while Magic is awesome and all, LotR is not M:TG.  They have different rule structures.  It'd be like trying to design new formats of checkers using backgammon rules.

Here's how things would go in play based just on wordings (again, you're not going to be at every table to clarify the cards):

(You choose the value of X. Except when you play this card, its twilight cost is 0).

"Oh I get to pick what X is?  Cool I'll have it be 50."

(For each of your aggressor minions assigned to a skirmish, each Shadow card you play is twilight cost -1)

"Ok, I'll pay 3 for X."
"So X = 0"
"What?"
"You have 3 aggressors assigned.  Each shadow card is twilight -1.  X is the twilight cost of your card, so you have X -3, which means you must pay at least 4 to have X be any greater than 0."
"Oh, well you have Legolas, Dauntless Hunter out there with a hobbit, so how much do my X cards cost?"
"Good question.  If you paid 3, he would increase the cost by 1, making X = to 4, but then you'd have to pay 1 again because of him...  I guess you have to pay infinite twilight to play one?"

Remember, Decipher churned out this game for 19 sets and (at least until Mt Doom apparently) playtested these things heavily.  Why do you suppose they didn't put an (X) into the twilight cost of Hobbit Appetite?  LotR isn't designed for an X twilight cost, it's designed for a flat number.

I should add, I say this with all concern as someone who was there when friendships and tournaments almost ended over how The Witch-King's Beast worked.

[gk1964]

NP Thranduil.

Foresee is awesome. Elf decks really manipulate the deck flow and allow you to set up your re-group with brilliant effect.

Unyielding is also a fun keyword.

We have a wizard deck with Curunir, Radagast and an unyielding Gandalf that does a lot of fun spell manipulation.

I will canvas some comments from my fellow players and give you some more feedback including some info on the OP Eowyn you have done!

gk

I can let you have some decklists if you like.

[Thranduil]

NP Thranduil.

Foresee is awesome. Elf decks really manipulate the deck flow and allow you to set up your re-group with brilliant effect.

Unyielding is also a fun keyword.

We have a wizard deck with Curunir, Radagast and an unyielding Gandalf that does a lot of fun spell manipulation.

I will canvas some comments from my fellow players and give you some more feedback including some info on the OP Eowyn you have done!

gk

I can let you have some decklists if you like.

AMAZING! Send me emails! (there's one attached to my TLHH profile) Which sets are you using? All 3?