Reflections II - Complete List

[Cw0rk]

I like your Army of the Dead. It's pretty sick that it can have a strength of 21, but its hard too play I guess.

[FM]

I actually think toil might make it way too abusable, most Wraiths BEG for exertions anyway...

[Thranduil]

I actually think toil might make it way too abusable, most Wraiths BEG for exertions anyway...

My thoughts on this would be that some Wraiths enter play exhausted (eg. Dead Men of Dunharrow) so you might have to work a little, and also I'm hoping that adding 3 threats after you've played a bunch of Wraiths to exert should be fairly difficult. Though, it is supposed to be powerful and I suspect playtesting is the best way to find out what it's like.

Thranduil

[Thranduil]

I'm going to go slowly through this set, mainly so that I can make sure the cards are really top quality before I post them.

We'll continue through the Army of the Dead subtheme for a little bit, starting with one of the major themes of this set: followers.

So as I've mentioned before, the previous block Light & Shadow did not contain any followers in order that it could be draftable. Consequently, this Reflections II is completely packed with followers. This is the first one I'll post:

Dunharrow Soldiers
Follower • Wraith
Aid - add a threat.
When this follower is transferred from your support area to a companion, exert that companion twice (or wound that companion twice if that companion is not a companion).
Bearer gains enduring 1. (Bearer is strength +1 for each wound on him or her).
R2 R 30

A different kind of Wraith for the new world of standard.

Now I'm trying to be inventive. I could not justify a flavour reason why Followers should not have races. Obviously this might cause a little confusion with cards like Axe Strike, but I think it's fairly obviously implied that they mean characters only. I said there might be a lot of clarification with this set: now I'm not completely sold on the idea of follower races, but if it went ahead there would be clarifications on many older cards that mention race to include the stipulation "character". As for things like Spectral Sword, the overarching rule that followers can't bear cards still applies, except in the case where a card deliberately contradicts this ie. by saying "Bearer must be a follower" (I was following the argument about Whisper in the Dark earlier, and this is the cleanest clarification that I can see - analogous to the dead pile rule that always applies except when cards like Sent Back deliberately contradict it, unlike in the case of O Elbereth Gilthoniel! where it is not deliberately contradicted and so the overarching rule that skirmishes involving the Ring-bearer can't be cancelled applies).

Another batch of errata would be the inclusion of races on previous followers (for example, Radagast, Tender of Beasts would say "Follower • Wizard"). This is analogous to the "Great Creature Type Update" which happened with MTG where a lot of older cards got their sub-types (and in some cases super-types) updated. Both of these things would necessitate a kind of "Oracle" (to use the MTG equivalent) - a searchable database that included all relevant updates and errata.

Other than those technical broad ideas for the set and overall development of the game which I'd really love to hear your views on, the card itself is actually very straightforward. It looks like a Wraith (it adds threats, exerts and gives enduring) and hopefully feels like a Wraith. As I said above, a Wraith for the new Standard.

Thranduil

[Cw0rk]

Dunharrow Soldier is pretty neat as well. Very good idea.

[chompers]

I actually think toil might make it way too abusable, most Wraiths BEG for exertions anyway...

I had the same thoughts. Toil 3 means only four wounds on companions and its free. Toil 2 perhaps? Alternatively, lower strength to make the enduring aspect more important to make it a good companion.

The thing I am not so sure about with this companion is once it is in play it seems almost invincible - high strength, defender +1, enduring 3.

I like Dunharrow Solider. Is it meant to be non-unique? It's probably not a problem if its not because of all the threats mutiple copies would need to add.

Enduring 1, 2 ,3 etc - is a top idea  

[Thranduil]

The thing I am not so sure about with this companion is once it is in play it seems almost invincible - high strength, defender +1, enduring 3.

Yeah fair enough. I just brought his strength down significantly to 5. His top is still 17 which is nothing to sneeze at, but you have to work before he becomes especially ridiculous. I think Toil 2 might also be a good idea but after changing the strength, I wouldn't mind hearing some opinions on that change first. It could be he needs both.

I like Dunharrow Solider. Is it meant to be non-unique? It's probably not a problem if its not because of all the threats mutiple copies would need to add.

He is indeed supposed to be non-unique. So far I've made a lot of non-unique followers. I don't think it would be an issue regardless of aid cost, but we'll see what you guys think.

Thranduil

[Witchkingx5]

As for Army of the Dead, there's one thing you're all missing: overwhelming.With starting stregth of 5, and if you don't have any possibilities to exret this guy, you can actually die pretty soon.

Aynway, Toil 3 seems a bit like overkill, I also play wraiths and I mostly keep just a couple of comanions exhausted, so I don't think there will be any problems with playing this guy for free. Make it Toil 3.

[FM]

Considering you exert a bunch of your guys EXCEPT him, he's now close to sucking. You pay a fair and sheer price for a companion that, unless you ALSO has ways of exerting right away, dies to random Orcs. Can you picture an ARMY as having the same destructive power as GOBLIN RUNNER?!?!? I'd actually make him cost MORE and probably lose his toil, for ULTIMATE size, perhaps only giving him a "wounds on this companion can't be prevented" clause.

[Thranduil]

I see your points. I wasn't sure if making you work for it was the right solution, and you guys seem to think that it isn't, so that's answered that question! Brought him back to 9 with Toil 2?

Thranduil

[ket_the_jet]

Now, what if he didn't have a toil cost? I mean, he would be like a really powerful Ent character...only without the twilight cut.

Or maybe even toil 1. Or give him real text:
When you play this companion, you may exert three companions to remove .

That way he can exert once too.
-wtk

[chompers]

Yeah - but this is where he combos off other cards - such as Dunharrow Soldiers. He is now Enduring 4 (I assume) and has two wounds once they are attached. The following turn he will have four wounds. The only problem you have to solve is all the threats and you have the biggest companion in the game - and only two cards to trigger it's gametext. Too easy IMO.

Designing a deck to exert him a few times shouldn't be that hard.

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

With the 3 threats, I think he might actually be better as a splash companion in a healing/wounding deck than with wraiths (who might have trouble with the 3 threats).

By the way, since toil isn't a phase action, could you use it to run this guy in your starting fellowship (say in a Gondorian Prowler large fellowship)? That is could you start:
Faramir, BoQ (ringbearer)
Gondorian Prowler x4 (1 twilight each=4 twilight)
Madril, DoO (0 twilight)
Army of the Dead (6 exertions=0 twilight)

I presume there's no problem with exerting companions to play companions in your starting fellowship (where it's not a phase action), since you can add a burden to play a companion in your starting fellowship (Smeagol).

[ket_the_jet]

Sam,

You can't use Toil in a starting fellowship. The difference between Toil and Smeagol is that adding a burden is a condition for playing Smeagol whereas Toil is an optional payment.

Edit: On the same note, consider Pippin, Hobbit of Some Intelligence*. When you play him, you remove a burden from your bid. Or consider Dead Man of Dunharrow. If you start a pair of them, you start the game with two threats and those guys exhausted.
-wtk

[Thranduil]

You can't use Toil in a starting fellowship. The difference between Toil and Smeagol is that adding a burden is a condition for playing Smeagol whereas Toil is an optional payment.

No I'm almost certain you can. Nowhere does it specify a timing for toil, except for "when you play it". You wouldn't be able to toil out a Ring-bearer (I mean, apart from his cost being anyway) and obviously you'd have to play your companions in the right order, but toil works fine. I don't think there's ever been a companion with toil before, which is why this has not come up.

Thranduil