Greenleaf vs Enquea TOTO

[Thranduil]

remember the example of Secret Sentinels:
If you can spot an Orc and only one Shadow condition, you must discard a Free Peoples condition if there is one.

SAY WHAT!  You have to dump a freeps condition!  I thought the "or" in the text implied options.

But the conditions for the "or" are not optional - if you spot an Orc, you have to do that part of the text (similar for say Their Halls of Stone; if you're at an underground site, you can't choose to add +2 strength).

We've had this issue about preventing wounds versus the inability to take wounds. I think we can certainly see that if the Polearm said "Each time bearer is about to take a wound, prevent that wound" that you could use Greenleaf for no effect - you try to perform as much of the effect as possible, and then you simply fail.

However, I am not certain this is the case for "cannot take wounds". It maybe that Kralik is right, that you can't even try to wound a minion bearing the Polearm. Anyone remember our earlier discussion on this? Any conclusions?

Thranduil

[Elessar's Socks]

Incidentally, the second entry there would seem to indicate that you couldn't use Greenleaf to shoot an Easterling bearing a loaded Easterling Polearm (not that you'd want to, but illegal nonetheless). Or... using Hate to wound an exhausted Wraith with Swept Away. Am I reading that correctly?

As I've understood it, the second entry refers to a choice provided in the game text of a card, as in DDotR. But you still couldn't attempt to wound said Easterling with Greenleaf because a character that "cannot take wounds" cannot have wounds assigned to him. If there are no viable targets, then the wounding part of his effect can't be completed.

[Marcoliboar]

all this "pay the cost for no effect" is just stupid for me..

but if you look at it this way, Lego i going trough the forest, and he decides to shoot his arrow in to the tin air, or he decides to miss TOTO

[Kralik]

ket explained it the way I was thinking... but I should have clarified by giving multiple minions/companions in the examples. It seems to me that under the second snippet, which character to wound is a "choice"... therefore, you must choose a character capable of being wounded if possible.

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

In short:
If there's just ToTo, using Greenleaf's ability requires you to wound ToTo.
If there's a polearmed Easterling and ToTo, using Greenleaf's ability requires you to wound ToTo (because you can't choose the Easterling).
If there's just the polearmed Easterling, you can use Greenleaf's ability to wound nobody.

In order for Greenleaf's ability to save you from ToTo, there has to be a minion other than ToTo who can take wounds in the archery phase, so that Greenleaf can target that minion instead.

Note that all these enduring minions were probably why they made cards like A Grey Ship.

[Thranduil]

If there's just the polearmed Easterling, you can use Greenleaf's ability to wound nobody.

Now I believe this is the point of contention. I'm not sure you can even use Greenleaf's ability at all. I may be thinking in MTG terms again, but I'd like some more opinions on this.

[ket_the_jet]

High Vantage, a Southron, and 1000 other minions.

Even if the archery total is 100,000, you can "assign" all of them to the Southron that cannot be wounded.

Berserk Butcher, Broad-Bladed Sword, etc.
-wtk

[Kralik]

ket, you are confusing High Vantage / Berserk Butcher with cards like Broad-Bladed Sword / Easterling Polearm. There is a difference between "prevent" and "cannot"/"may not."

[Thranduil]

High Vantage, a Southron, and 1000 other minions.

Even if the archery total is 100,000, you can "assign" all of them to the Southron that cannot be wounded.

Berserk Butcher, Broad-Bladed Sword, etc.
-wtk

Indeed we discussed this on another thread a while back.

So where does this fit in in our Greenleaf example?

[Kralik]

Sam has it right:

If there's just the polearmed Easterling, you can use Greenleaf's ability to wound nobody.

[ket_the_jet]

Ah, Kralik, right. I am posting from my phone and completely forgot the actual texts. Guess I wasn't much help!
-wtk

[Kralik]

Now here's a question...

Can you use Citadel to Gate to heal a culture that is not there?
I use this card in my Gandy/Wraiths deck. Usually I heal the Wraiths, but sometimes I want them exhausted. In the latter case, "I heal the... erm... ... culture." Valid?

[ket_the_jet]

Can you use Citadel to Gate to heal a culture that is not there?
I use this card in my Gandy/Wraiths deck. Usually I heal the Wraiths, but sometimes I want them exhausted. In the latter case, "I heal the... erm... ... culture." Valid?

I think that sounds like fair game. Of course, you could just run Frodo and you wouldn't run into this problem, but I understand that Isildur is far more helpful.
-wtk

[jdizzy001]

However, to play devil's advocate, the text of the card says you have to heal all companions of a single culture.  Can i discard Athelas to heal a wounded companion that is not there?

[Marcoliboar]

  Can i discard Athelas to heal a wounded companion that is not there?

yes, as long as you play the cost, and the cost is "discard this possession"