Complicated Wounding Situation

[Gwaihir]

Say you have Frodo, Sam, some threats, gollum and promise keeping all in play.  Frodo dies in a skirmish with gollum or shelob.  Ring goes to Sam, threats have to be assigned and promise keeping adds exertions.  The question is, in what order is this all done?

I'm fairly sure that the ring gets transferred before anything.  My guess is that all threat wounds are assigned and then promise keeping goes off, but i'm not sure of that.  Perhaps it goes threat, promise keeping, threat, promise keeping until the end.

Who knows?

[ket_the_jet]

Threat, exertion, threat, exertion, threat, ...
-wtk

[rujudan]

i think it's separate because the wounds are added one at a time; thus exertions are one at a time.

[Thranduil]

Say you have Frodo, Sam, some threats, gollum and promise keeping all in play.  Frodo dies in a skirmish with gollum or shelob.  Ring goes to Sam, threats have to be assigned and promise keeping adds exertions.  The question is, in what order is this all done?

I'm fairly sure that the ring gets transferred before anything.  My guess is that all threat wounds are assigned and then promise keeping goes off, but i'm not sure of that.  Perhaps it goes threat, promise keeping, threat, promise keeping until the end.

Who knows?

The response action for transferring the ring is an optional action, whereas threats being triggered and Promise Keeping are required actions. Consequently, it looks to me like it goes: threat, exertion, threat, exertion... etc. and at the end, Sam gets the Ring.

A bit weird timing but I think that's right.

Thranduil

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

I'd say promise keeping comes before threats and the Ring, because Frodo takes a wound immediately before he's killed.

[ket_the_jet]

You have to take Promise Keeping exertions for each wound you take from threats.
-wtk

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

Ah, in that case, yeah, they'd alternate.

[hrcho]

Promise Keeping doesn't exert for threat wounds, they are not made during a skirmish involving a minion.

[Elgar]

Threat wounds are a part of the skirmish, and Promise Keeping would trigger for each threat wound assigned.

[Gwaihir]

The response action for transferring the ring is an optional action, whereas threats being triggered and Promise Keeping are required actions.

I've been thinking about this and I'm not convinced.  How is taking the ring optional and Promise Keeping mandatory.  Both use the same language saying essentially do it, not you may do it.  Isn't it the same as healing at a sanctuary when blade tip is in play.  You get to heal before the wound.  How is this different.

The rules say that you lose the game if your ringbearer is killed.  So if Frodo is killed, it is game over.  The only way the game can continue is if Sam takes the ring.  Sam taking the ring should have priority over anything else because the game is over if he doesn't take it.  Assigning threat wounds or promise keeping exertions when the ring bearer is dead, is playing after the game is over.

So if Frodo is killed, I think there are two options.  Either Sam takes the ring and the game continues, or Sam doesn't take the ring and the game is over.

[Thranduil]

The response action for transferring the ring is an optional action, whereas threats being triggered and Promise Keeping are required actions.

I've been thinking about this and I'm not convinced.  How is taking the ring optional and Promise Keeping mandatory.  Both use the same language saying essentially do it, not you may do it.  Isn't it the same as healing at a sanctuary when blade tip is in play.  You get to heal before the wound.  How is this different.

The rules say that you lose the game if your ringbearer is killed.  So if Frodo is killed, it is game over.  The only way the game can continue is if Sam takes the ring.  Sam taking the ring should have priority over anything else because the game is over if he doesn't take it.  Assigning threat wounds or promise keeping exertions when the ring bearer is dead, is playing after the game is over.

So if Frodo is killed, I think there are two options.  Either Sam takes the ring and the game continues, or Sam doesn't take the ring and the game is over.

That was my issue by that timing as well, but it actually looks strictly right. Response actions are always optional - you don't have to use them, just like any other special ability. Sam's ability to take the Ring is a response action, so it seems to happen after any other required actions for a companion dying have taken place. Weird, but that's what it looks like to me.

Thranduil

[Gwaihir]

Ok, I see that distinction now.  Promise keeping doesn't have the key word response and Sam does.

But, I'm still stuck on the game over situation.  The rules say if the ringbearer is killed the game is over.  It doesn't make sense to assign wounds and threats when the game is over.  Sam is responding to the game being over and that response is necessary for the game to continue.  I would argue that placing wounds and exertions, is playing the game, but you can't play the game if it is over.

Otherwise the situation seems to be the game is over, but we'll keep playing wounding, etc, to see if it is really over. 

[ket_the_jet]

Threat wounds are apart of the skirmish, and Promise Keeping would trigger for each threat wound assigned.

You may want to edit that to "a part," not "apart."

Anyways, to the first point:

Here, more specifically here, again stated here.  You can also cross-check here.

In short, threats do cause Promise Keeping exertions.
-wtk

[hrcho]

Anyways, to the first point:

Here, more specifically here, again stated here.  You can also cross-check here.

In short, threats do cause Promise Keeping exertions.
-wtk

Holy sh... I mean, Holy Cow!!  That is so wrong... so evil... did I mention it's wrong! ...

I haven't quite decided whether to thank you or not for clearing that up for me. I think I was happier before I knew that

Or, maybe Kralik, Heije, Lurtzy, ES, MuadDib, TheJord (where has he been?!) and some other respected members of the community can assert to my correctness.
-wtk

Are you saying that other member (myself included) are not respected??? How dare you?! 
Just kidding (I respect myself and that's enough for me)

Anyway, thank you for going out of your way to enlighten me and other disrespected members  

[ket_the_jet]

...and some other respected members of the community can assert to my correctness.

Again, not a comprehensive list and no offense meant to those of you who aren't there.

Anyways, no problem. Promise Keeping is pretty devastating in the right deck!
-wtk