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April 05, 2010, 11:36:16 PM
Reply #30

Smeagollum

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Merits of a PC
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2010, 11:36:16 PM »
KTJ, what do you mean by calling him pretentious?

In my opinion he started with an insult which also attacked my credibillity. And again if you'd followed my attempts for creating a pc then you would have known that I asked for a lot of input. And I just didn't get almost nothing. So my opinion is: I favour a pc. Don't see it happen. But if you want to happen you just start one (which is in my opinion blunt) and maybe there are mistakes in the beginning, but you can repair them on the way and if the pc doesn't work then it will die a natural death. If people don't like what the pc does then they will neglect it and they will stay just on this forum. And if it works then it will atract also people like you. So the pc should  listen to it's members, otherwise it has no reason to it's existence. There is no reason for not creating a pc. Why the belief that it would harm the game. A pc didn't harm Star Trek or Star Wars.

April 06, 2010, 12:14:23 AM
Reply #31

chompers

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« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2010, 12:14:23 AM »
Actually a PC breathed life into Star Trek and made it bigger than it was when Decipher produced the game.

Why?

* It is endorsed by the community and by Decipher
* It has good leadership
* It has organised play including world championships (this year in Germany - for the first time - and guess what some people actually intend to fly there and attend - not bad for a defunct card game)
* The game can be free to play when using v-cards and errata cards meaning money is no longer a barrier to playing this CCG
* It provides up-to-date rulings on issues as they arise
* It keeps the game fresh with an expanding card base
* It provides a place for players that love STCCG to go and be part of a community
* I am sure there are other reasons

Even Middle Earth CCG by ICE has a PC.

TLHH provides some of this, a well-run PC provides more.

LOTR can have this - and those of you that are unsure will benefit from some aspects of the PC but may not choose to use all of it.

The benefits of a PC have been spelled out many times, and the problems with creating have been spelled out many times. Some of the perceived problems that a PC can create have also been discussed. But when it comes down to it - those problems only exist if you choose to use the PC (don't use the rules support, don't use the website, don't attend the tournaments, continue to play the game as you have for the last X years unchanged).

Part of the reason a PC does not exist is because of the divided opinion amongst the community.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 12:16:09 AM by chompers »

April 06, 2010, 12:26:03 AM
Reply #32

Gil-Estel

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« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2010, 12:26:03 AM »
Just out of curiosity:
- how tight was the community of Star Trek when starting a PC?
- how big was the community of Star Trek when starting a PC?
- how many people participated in the PC?
- how many 'new' people are drawn to Star Trek due to the PC?
- how many old people are getting back in the game due to the PC?
- how much work is involved in the Star Trek PC?

Here at TLHH we are devided. Somewhat lazy perhaps, and randomly satisfied with the way things are as they are now. But even then, we are a small community, and more over, a shattered one. We have a few English members, a few German, some from Australia, some from Brasil, Chile, US, but when speaking of active membership, participating in debates, knowing the rules, it is like 2-4 per country.
And if some of those members are not likely to put any effort in a PC because they think it is neither necceasary or viable, well, you have got to admit, chances are pretty slim, don't you think?
..."Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill"...

April 06, 2010, 12:46:31 AM
Reply #33

Smeagollum

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« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2010, 12:46:31 AM »
Here at TLHH we are devided. Somewhat lazy perhaps, and randomly satisfied with the way things are as they are now. But even then, we are a small community, and more over, a shattered one. We have a few English members, a few German, some from Australia, some from Brasil, Chile, US, but when speaking of active membership, participating in debates, knowing the rules, it is like 2-4 per country.
And if some of those members are not likely to put any effort in a PC because they think it is neither necceasary or viable, well, you have got to admit, chances are pretty slim, don't you think?

Exactly what I mean. Would love a pc (chompers is absolutely right), but just won't see it happen, because we're not desicive.

April 06, 2010, 01:25:00 AM
Reply #34

chompers

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« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2010, 01:25:00 AM »
Just out of curiosity:
- how tight was the community of Star Trek when starting a PC?
- how big was the community of Star Trek when starting a PC?
- how many people participated in the PC?
- how many 'new' people are drawn to Star Trek due to the PC?
- how many old people are getting back in the game due to the PC?
- how much work is involved in the Star Trek PC?

It is not easy for me to answer all these questions accurately as I left Trek because Decipher lost the contract and I had some major life changes at the same time. I returned to the game 2 years later unaware that the PC has even been established. I will do my best with my responses and try and keep them unbiased.

1) How tight? I've said it before but I think the Star Trek community is more rabid and has more passion for all things Trek than LOTR fans. Hey - Trekkies have a reputation above LOTR fans. So I would say they were VERY tight and this is part of the problem to establishing a PC.
2) Star Trek community was definately bigger than LOTR when the PC was started.
3) The PC has 6-12 active members that run it at the top level, but this stems down into volunteers that organise play in each of the countries and then areas within the countries. There are more active memebrs involved in the PC than what LOTR currently has.
4) Star Trek has gained so many players as a result of the PC. There are around 20-30 active Trek players in my area. They come and go. Of this number no more than 10 played Star Trek before Decipher lost its contract. To be fair Trek is doing so well in my area because the tournament director is extremely likeable and has an amazing ability to draw new players into the game. One-in-a-million.
5) Old players have returned to the game. As I said around 10 of the current on-and-off play group are still playing and have either continued to play the game or have returned to the game.
6) Running the PC is a huge effort. Charlie Plaine, chairman of the PC, has said on these forums (he took an interest in what we were trying to achieve for a while and appeared to consider epxanding the Star Trek PC) that he spends on average 20 hours a week organising the operations of the PC. He then has many others that assist him, so yes there is a huge time commitment involved. If I didn't have a young family, and had more time, I would be willing to put this time in, but my life just doesn't allow for it at the moment. Plus I am kinda having fun getting back into Trek (perhaps because I don't have to put the hard work in).

I really do think that a well-run PC has the ability to attract new players to the game with all the advantages that come with it (as listed in my previous post). But, the key issue here is 'well-run' PC. Without the right people on board the discussion will just continue.

The way I see it, there is no harm debating the PC, preferably in a nice way. The members on this site change around a bit, and perhaps one day the right players will come on board.

The other thing to consider as you have pointed out GE is that comparing LOTR to ST is not necessarily valid. They are different games after all, the only common theme is that they are made by Decipher.

I realise there are issues and i am trying to point out both positives and negatives but the thing that makes me feel so strongly towards a PC is that Star Trek has gained players as a result of having a PC. If we band together once the right peeople come along and get it started I feel we will attract new players and all benefit in the long run.

I am not saying I am right, it is just my opinion based on experience.

Sorry if my post is all over the place - i have had a few wines.

April 06, 2010, 02:17:11 AM
Reply #35

Smeagollum

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« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2010, 02:17:11 AM »
@Chompers

Very well put. Makes me think that if people want to start a pc then it might me smart to just copy the organization of ST PC. The only thing you then need to achieve is:

Commitment
Filling in positions
Goal and how to achieve this goal
A decipher era part with current rulings + gamemechanics and a non decipher era part with new rules, virtual cards and gamemechanics (so that people can choose willingly what they want to play)
Decipher's approval

and eh Chompers.. Cheers mate :)

April 06, 2010, 03:18:25 AM
Reply #36

chompers

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« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2010, 03:18:25 AM »

A decipher era part with current rulings + gamemechanics and a non decipher era part with new rules, virtual cards and gamemechanics (so that people can choose willingly what they want to play)


I really like this - different ways to play - and not messing with the existing ways of playing that currently work.

April 06, 2010, 03:51:15 AM
Reply #37

Smeagollum

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Merits of a PC
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2010, 03:51:15 AM »

A decipher era part with current rulings + gamemechanics and a non decipher era part with new rules, virtual cards and gamemechanics (so that people can choose willingly what they want to play)


I really like this - different ways to play - and not messing with the existing ways of playing that currently work.

This is what we actually allready do with using Austrian format. But then you make it more clear and you can extend the game for those who are interested in that part. It's something like what Star Wars does with the films-part and their expanded universe. It just makes sense.

April 06, 2010, 04:36:18 AM
Reply #38

Smeagollum

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Merits of a PC
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2010, 04:36:18 AM »
Easy test to see if a PC brings in players this site does not:

Smeagollum-
Date registered: 03 September 2008
Active member: Yes, 1.1+ posts/day
PC in place: No

Chompers-
Date registered: 16 January 2009
Active member: Yes, .75+ posts/day
PC in place: No

Hmm...what are the implications of this shocking information?!
-wtk

??????????????

Strange argument..... You don't have anything better to do???

April 06, 2010, 08:41:26 AM
Reply #39

Gate Troll

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Re: Everyone who is unhappy with the message altering, post here
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2010, 08:41:26 AM »
@ Door Orc

You're just not knowing what your talking about. I experienced myself the lack of enthusiasm to help to create a pc. I tried to get people enthusiatic, but when I asked for support there were maybe 2 people who really seemed interested to debate it. So I quited the job. If you don't know something then just don't say anything.

I was kind of thinking about this thread when I responded: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,3813.0.html. Also, there was whole slew of articles on page 5 of Bag End that got moved to the new PC forum. I counted a fair few interested in a PC. So please don't tell me I'm ignorant and need to shut up.

Secondly I favour a pc, but just will not see it happen, because everybody keeps talking, but at the moment people ask things to do then there is lesser interest.
People have other goals. Well it might, but if there's no decision, then nothing will happen at all.

I have no idea what this means. I know English isn't your first language so that's perfectly understandable, however a little clarification would be appreciated.

This site is all we need? Not really, I think. People want to have gccc and people want to have contact with eachother. At this moment there are still playergroups who do not use this site, so a pc could bring people together.

Most people who use gccg to play LotR tcg got it from this site. I also do not see how a PC could bring people to LotR, it seems far more likely that most players will learn about the PC from this site.

Well for your 2 cents, back here we don't have any cents; They are round up or down.. guess what happens to your two cents. I think it's really weak to take on someone's language who's not a natural speaker as you might be.

'That's just my two cents' is an American figure of speech which basically means 'that's just my opinion'. Also, I don't think it's 'weak', of me to use a figure of speech. I'm sorry that you are offended, but if I can't speak English, what am I supposed to speak?

Do or do not, maybe that's the question.

Do or do not what? Smeagollum, I have no desire to argue. I simply believe that, at the size we are now, a PC would do more damage than good.


@ket_the_jet:
I feel slightly patronized. I suppose I deserve it, I have put my foot in my mouth a few times. ;)

I am at work. So no.

Edit: Here would be a more accurate test. How many members of this site have found this community through a Players' Committee?

* Gate Troll keeps hand down.

How many members of this site found this community through old fashioned research or a recommendation and have since posted deck recommendations, trade lists, learned about GCCG, and posted dream cards?
* ket_the_jet raises hand.
-wtk

* Gate Troll raises hand.

April 06, 2010, 02:20:47 PM
Reply #40

MR. Lurtzy

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Re: Merits of a PC
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2010, 02:20:47 PM »
How many members of this site found this community through old fashioned research or a recommendation and have since posted deck recommendations, trade lists, learned about GCCG, and posted dream cards?
* ket_the_jet raises hand.
-wtk
* MR. Lurtzy raises his hand.

April 06, 2010, 03:25:46 PM
Reply #41

MR. Lurtzy

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Re: Merits of a PC
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2010, 03:25:46 PM »
Don't be so full of yourself. :mrgreen:

April 06, 2010, 03:27:25 PM
Reply #42

chompers

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Re: Merits of a PC
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2010, 03:27:25 PM »

Edit: Here would be a more accurate test. How many members of this site have found this community through a Players' Committee?


There is no PC, so if anyone found this site looking for a PC is one is a clever bunny.

Here's a more accurate test, how many players that actually play a game supported by an active PC have found that game and now play it.

April 06, 2010, 03:54:56 PM
Reply #43

MR. Lurtzy

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Re: Merits of a PC
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2010, 03:54:56 PM »
Here's a more accurate test, how many players that actually play a game supported by an active PC have found that game and now play it.

The other thing to consider as you have pointed out GE is that comparing LOTR to ST is not necessarily valid. They are different games after all, the only common theme is that they are made by Decipher.


April 06, 2010, 04:21:13 PM
Reply #44

TelTura

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Re: Merits of a PC
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2010, 04:21:13 PM »

A decipher era part with current rulings + gamemechanics and a non decipher era part with new rules, virtual cards and gamemechanics (so that people can choose willingly what they want to play)


I really like this - different ways to play - and not messing with the existing ways of playing that currently work.



doesn't this seem to be the only option at this point?  even if every active member of this forum were willing to sacrifice all of their spare time every week for a year on this PC, we still only have a net base of, what?  twenty?  thirty?  that's enough to maybe give everyone a position, and then that's it.  A PC that leads...itself?  No player base?  That's like having a thirty-population nation.  You don't need a "nation" at that level.  A town will do.

Just set up "house rules", for lack of a better term.  That's what me and my bro's do at home, and it could be adapted to this (slightly) larger population.
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