TLHH DC Project: The Great Eye - Dwarves

[chompers]

Card ID	Notes #1			Notes #2			Notes #3
DWC01	Gimli			Recursion?
DWC02	Companion			fellowship draw
DWC03	Possession			weapon			culture tokens
DWC04	Condition			tale			resistance
DWC05	Condition			Tokens
DWC06	Event			search/tale			pump
DWU01	Companion
DWU02	Companion
DWU03	Condition			tale
DWU04	Event			search			card draw
DWU05	Event			maneuver			wounding
DWR01	Companion			Gimli			Friend to Legolas, alliance, culture tokens
DWR02	Companion
DWR03	Possession			armour			resistance
DWR04	Condition

CULTURE STRENGTHS:


1) fellowship draw, mountain, conditions, mill, pumps, recursion, damage, tales, *valiant*
2) underground, search, foresight, tokens, maneuver wounding, possessions
3) healing, choke, archery, pipeweed, regroup wounding, artifacts, maneuver/regroup draw


A new Gimli (linked to elves)

DWR01
* Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Resistance 6
Damage +1
When you are about to place a token on a condition, you may place a token on an condition instead.

A new weapon for Gimli ...
DWC04 (but prob more likely to replace a rare companion?) DWR02 or DWR03 ?
* Gimli's Battle-Axe, Cleaver
Strength +2
Bearer must be Gimli.
Each time Gimli wins a skirmish, you may place a token on a condition.

the card combo is too transparent? and is it worth it? Very rusty with everything so excuse the mess if i am off track.

[Thranduil]

A new Gimli (linked to elves)

* Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Resistance 6
Damage +1
When you are about to place a token on a condition, you may place a token on an condition instead.

A new weapon for Gimli ...

* Gimli's Battle-Axe, Cleaver
Strength +2
Bearer must be Gimli.
Each time Gimli wins a skirmish, you may place a token on a condition.

the card combo is too transparent? and is it worth it?

Remember to post the card ID you're making the card for. So you should say that Gimli (who looks quite rare) would be DWR01.


For the axe, a better wording would be to reinforce a token. Tokens are good stuff. I haven't specified many token cards, but I'm sure we will as we go through.

The ideas are both good, but in both cases I want more:

DWR01
•Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Damage +1.
Each time you are about to place a culture token on a condition, you may reinforce an token instead.
Skirmish: Remove an or token to make Gimli strength +1.

This is one case where the alliance keyword makes a lot of sense. How about:

•Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Damage +1. Alliance: . (You may replace with anywhere on this card).
Each time you are about to reinforce a token, you may reinforce a token.
Skirmish: Remove a token to make Gimli strength +1.

[simplegarak]

Dwarf rough draft

DW01
*Gimli, He Who Remembers
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Companion - Dwarf
Fellowship: Add and remove a card in your discard pile from the game to take a event into hand.
Fellowship: Exert Gimli to play a condition from your discard pile.
'The road that I speak of leads to the Mines of Moria,' said Gandalf. Only Gimli lifted up his head; a smouldering fire was in his eyes.

DW02
*Dori, Dwarf Veteran
Str: 4
Vit: 2
Res: 5
Companion - Dwarf
Fellowship: Reveal a shadow card from hand and add to place that card on the bottom of your draw deck and draw a card.
Brother to Nori and Ori.  Survivor of the Battle of Five Armies.

DW03
*Nori, Dwarf Veteran
Str: 5
vit: 3
Res: 6
Companion - Dwarf
While you can spot an orc, Nori is strength +2.
While the ring-bearer wears the One Ring, Nori is strength +2 and resistance +1.
Brother to Dori and Ori.  Survivor of the Battle of Five Armies.

DW04
Little Axe
Str: +1
Possession - Hand Weapon
Bearer must be a companion.
If bearer is a Dwarf, he or she is strength +1.
Skirmish: Remove a culture token to make bearer damage +1.

DW05
*Retaking the Lonely Mountain
Condition
Tale.
Plays on the ring-bearer.
Bearer is resistance +1 for each Dwarf you can spot (limit +2).

DW06
To Reclaim Moria
Event - Response
Stealth.  Tale.
Make a companion strength +2 for each of the following that is true: you can spot 2 or more companions; the ring-bearer is wearing the One Ring; he is skirmishing at least one or minion; the fellowship is at an underground site.

DW07
*Ori, Dwarf Vetern
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Companion - Dwarf
Skirmish: Exert Ori twice to make another companion strength +X where X is Ori's current strength.
Brother to Nori and Dori.  Veteran of the Battle of Five Armies and joined Balin to reclaim Moria.

DW08
*Bombur, Always last
Str: 4
Vit: 3
Res: 5
Companion - Dwarf
Bombur is vitality +1 for each possession and artifact he bears.
While Bombur has 6 or more vitality, the move limit is -1.
After his journey to the lonely mountains, Bombur got so fat, it took 6 dwarves to help him move.

DW09
Final words of Thorin II Oakenshield
Res: +2
Condition
Bearer must be an unbound companion.
Response: If bearer is about to take a wound, discard this condition to prevent that.
'If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. But, sad or merry, I must leave it now. Farewell.'

DW10
Rally to Battle
Event - Skirmish
Make a companion strength +2 and draw a card (or draw 2 cards if that companion has resistance 4 or more).

DW11
Hurled Axe
Event - Maneuver
Spot a companion to exert a minion or you may discard a possession from play to wound that minion instead.

DW12
*Gimli, Friend of Legolas
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Damage +1.
Add 1 to the number of companions you can spot.
Regroup: Exert an companion to heal Gimli.

DW13
*Balin, Lord of Moria
Str: 7
Vit: 4
Res: 5
Companion - Dwarf
While Balin is in your starting fellowship, he is twilight cost -1.
While Balin is assigned to a skirmish, each other companion is strength +1.
When Balin is killed, you may play a tale from your discard pile or draw deck.

DW14
Mithril Sash
Possession - Armor
Bearer must be a Dwarf.
Bearer cannot be overwhelmed unless the shadow side's total strength is also triple bearer's resistance.

DW15
No Time to Mourn
Condition - Support Area
Response: If a companion with resistance 4 or more is about to take a wound, discard this condition from play to prevent that wound.
Regroup: Exert a companion and remove this condition from the game to remove a companion in your dead pile from the game.

[simplegarak]

This is one case where the alliance keyword makes a lot of sense. How about:

•Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Damage +1. Alliance: . (You may replace with anywhere on this card).
Each time you are about to reinforce a token, you may reinforce a token.
Skirmish: Remove a token to make Gimli strength +1.

Just to note (don't know if you want it this way or not):
The above wording would allow you to double your token placement on both and cards.  So playing Arod or Asfaloth would net you 2 tokens.

[simplegarak]

I'd actually like to replace Bombur, Always last - with what I wish had been done in Reflections:

Bilbo, Dwarf Helper
Str: 3
Vit: 4
(Res): 8
Companion - Hobbit
Ring-bearer. Ring-bond.
While wearing the One Ring, other companions are strength +1.
Skirmish: Exert a Dwarf with resistance 5 or more to make Bilbo strength +2.

[chompers]

I'd actually like to replace Bombur, Always last - with what I wish had been done in Reflections:

Bilbo, Dwarf Helper
Str: 3
Vit: 4
(Res): 8
Companion - Hobbit
Ring-bearer. Ring-bond.
While wearing the One Ring, other companions are strength +1.
Skirmish: Exert a Dwarf with resistance 5 or more to make Bilbo strength +2.

I like this - but traditionally Decipher has not changed the culture of alternate RingBearers. Perhaps he should remain hobbit, but have similar gametext. Bilbo with dwarven possessions just doesn't seem right to me.

Also - your other Dwarves focus on The Hobbit - do you think we should include cards from The Hobbit in this set (The Great Eye). I am not sure it is the right place to introduce them? Or is this just a case of me showing ignorance to The Middle Earth world?

This is one case where the alliance keyword makes a lot of sense. How about:

•Gimli, Friend to Legolas
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Damage +1. Alliance: . (You may replace with anywhere on this card).
Each time you are about to reinforce a token, you may reinforce a token.
Skirmish: Remove a token to make Gimli strength +1.

Just to note (don't know if you want it this way or not):
The above wording would allow you to double your token placement on both and cards.  So playing Arod or Asfaloth would net you 2 tokens.

I think adding two tokens for every token and also having the option of making them or might be too powerful. The game text might be better left as:

Each time you are about to reinforce a token, you may instead reinforce an token.

Using the Alliance keyword will allow the reverse - to and perhaps this in itself is good enough. The skirmish action is a sweetener - but not the focus/strategy of the card.

[Thranduil]

Yes you're probably right about the doubling of tokens -- too good. Also I like the idea of the Bilbo, but I wonder if he should be an ARB. And I also wonder if we want to be using so many Hobbit cards. Obviously there are not so many Dwarves in the book, but there are enough (Farin, Frór, Glóin, Dáin, Grimir, Thrarin, Thorin III, etc.).

I will post the skeleton here when I've rejigged it to accommodate a reduced number of companions.

Also, since this is the only place the alliance keyword has so far been used in this set, IS IT WORTH IT?

Thranduil

[simplegarak]

Yes you're probably right about the doubling of tokens -- too good. Also I like the idea of the Bilbo, but I wonder if he should be an ARB. And I also wonder if we want to be using so many Hobbit cards. Obviously there are not so many Dwarves in the book, but there are enough (Farin, Frór, Glóin, Dáin, Grimir, Thrarin, Thorin III, etc.).

I will post the skeleton here when I've rejigged it to accommodate a reduced number of companions.

Also, since this is the only place the alliance keyword has so far been used in this set, IS IT WORTH IT?

Thranduil

Well, this would obviously be cards drawn more from the period between the Hobbit and LotR than the Hobbit itself (thus why I tried to make reference to Balin going to Moria, the dwarves being veterans etc).  I can look at appendix and see what the Dwarves were doing during the war (obviously fighting on their own front).  If you want to keep it to just who would have been alive at the end of LotR, then we'd lose Balin and Ori.

I like this - but traditionally Decipher has not changed the culture of alternate RingBearers. Perhaps he should remain hobbit, but have similar gametext. Bilbo with dwarven possessions just doesn't seem right to me.

Well, Decipher didn't change ANYONE's culture until Aragorn, Defender of Rohan - proving it's at least possible.  Also, not allowing alt RBers to change culture led to a lot of just plain stupidity.  Faramir, a ring-bearer?  GIMLI? Boromir might be justified since he held the ring for a second in the movie (not book), but then they didn't even have the sense to put that pic on his card. 

I checked, currently there are no dwarven possessions that even this Bilbo could bear, he also won't allow you to start Durin III so he's not that bad.  The "worst" is that you'd have a ring-bearer who could use skirmish events (or use extra copies to feed to Linnar) but you'd still have to stock a Hobbit Sword or a version of Sting so no pure decks with him.

[chompers]

Interesting that possessions more often than not deploy on races rather than cultures - i hadn't considered this obvious fact.

This perhaps explains why we have a Aragorn DOR - given he is human - something Rohan and Gondor share. All the Rohan possessions and support cards that reference race will work on him.

However, an Elven Aragorn, or a Dwarven Bilbo may not transfer as smoothly. An card that reference Elf will not work on an Aragorn. The same will be true for any card that references anything other than human, or perhaps a keyword such as ranger.

Changing the culture of a companion that doesn't match the race of their new culture will only limit the number of cards that can be used with them. And i don't think our intention is to limit the number of cards that work with these companions.

Retaining their culture but giving them text that links them to other cultures as Decipher has already done might be better. Using the Alliance keyword also retains their culture but expands the diversity of the card.

Just my thoughts.

[simplegarak]

Interesting that possessions more often than not deploy on races rather than cultures - i hadn't considered this obvious fact.

This perhaps explains why we have a Aragorn DOR - given he is human - something Rohan and Gondor share. All the Rohan possessions and support cards that reference race will work on him.

However, an Elven Aragorn, or a Dwarven Bilbo may not transfer as smoothly. An card that reference Elf will not work on an Aragorn. The same will be true for any card that references anything other than human, or perhaps a keyword such as ranger.

Changing the culture of a companion that doesn't match the race of their new culture will only limit the number of cards that can be used with them. And i don't think our intention is to limit the number of cards that work with these companions.

Retaining their culture but giving them text that links them to other cultures as Decipher has already done might be better. Using the Alliance keyword also retains their culture but expands the diversity of the card.

Just my thoughts.

I'll have to sit down and figure it out, because I think any cards you might lose from (again, not counting ones that can still apply because you're a hobbit race) might be made up for from cards that are only culture. (such as Run Until Found, Thorin's Harp, Whatever End, etc)

Of course, the biggest boon would be to hose shadow decks that beef up from the more cultures they can spot.

[chompers]

I would like to see the Alliance keyword retained. Perhaps it is more likely to be seem on Free Peoples cards than Minions. Given we are only working on Dwarves at the moment that may explain why its use has only been attempted once?

There will at least one Gimli in the set. There has only ever been one version of Fror, and he was released in FOTR, so perhaps time for a newer one. Also only one version of Durin III, Grimir, Uri, Linnar, Thorin III, Sindri, Thrarin, Dain Ironfoot. Is there any other dwarves referenced in the book (LOTR trilogy) that have not yet made an appearance? Are there any other obvious cross-culture companions? An Legolas that helps Dwarves using Alliance keyword - rather than a Legolas.

[Thranduil]

Interesting that possessions more often than not deploy on races rather than cultures - i hadn't considered this obvious fact.

One of the reasons I keep specifying that in a culture matters set, you need to make cultures matter. So start referencing [Culture] companions instead of races.

I would like to see the Alliance keyword retained. Perhaps it is more likely to be seem on Free Peoples cards than Minions. Given we are only working on Dwarves at the moment that may explain why its use has only been attempted once?

Alliance would be more likely on Free Peoples cards certainly. But it can still appear on Shadow cards, to help tie the culture keywords thing together.

There will at least one Gimli in the set. There has only ever been one version of Fror, and he was released in FOTR, so perhaps time for a newer one. Also only one version of Durin III, Grimir, Uri, Linnar, Thorin III, Sindri, Thrarin, Dain Ironfoot. Is there any other dwarves referenced in the book (LOTR trilogy) that have not yet made an appearance? Are there any other obvious cross-culture companions? An Legolas that helps Dwarves using Alliance keyword - rather than a Legolas.

Frór is a good idea. Both versions of Farin are useless, and so it could be worth having a new one. The only Dwarves talked about in the books are Gimli, Glóin, Dáin, Balin, Óri (maybe some other of the Hobbit dwarves who go with Balin to Moria) and possibly Stonehelm. There are already 2 versions of Grimir and Thrarin, and the Reflections Dwarves we might want to leave out. But doing a Balin would be quite cool given that he's actually quite central to the storyline.

I agree that dual culture in this set fits better than culture-shifting. These are the obvious cross-culture characters I can think of off the top of my head:

Legolas /
Gimli /
Bilbo /
Aragorn /
Faramir/Boromir /
Éowyn /
Gandalf / / /
Sméagol /
Merry/Pippin /

And minions:

Nazgûl / /
Morgul Orcs /
Breelanders /
Gollum / /
Corsairs/Southrons/Easterlings / /
White Hand / / /
Dunlendings / /
Cirith Ungol Uruks /


Very rough concepts there.


And I've added the appropriate design skeleton above. Looking again, the proportion of companions doesn't look too bad for me - like I said characters are both the most fun cards to design and to play with.



What I think we should be focussing on in this thread is Gimli, Friend to Legolas DWR01. Let's see some suggestions!

[chompers]

DWC04
Well-made Axe
Str: +2
Possession - Hand Weapon
Bearer must be a companion.
While you can spot a culture token, bearer is damage +1.

DWC06
To Reclaim Moria
Event - Response
Stealth.  Tale.
If a Dwarf just died, make every companion strength +2 until the regroup phase.

DWU02
*Bombur, Always last
Str: 4
Vit: 3
Res: 5
Companion - Dwarf
Bombur is vitality +1 for each possession he bears.
If Bombur has 6 or more vitality, the move limit for this turn is -1.
After his journey to the lonely mountains, Bombur got so fat, it took 6 dwarves to help him move.

DWU04
Rally to Battle
Event - Skirmish
Make a companion strength +2 and draw a card (or draw 2 cards if that companion has resistance 4 or more).

Assuming we put a Bilbo in this set perhaps we should make a simple weapon that he can bear.

Your DWC04 would currently deploy on Bilbo. But giving him Damage +1 doesn't seem right. Perhaps something simple like this:

Little Axe
Stength +2
Bearer must be a companion.
While bearer is a Dwarf and you can spot a culture token, bearer is damage +1.

This gives the flexibility of having the same effects as a hobbit sword without needing to put on in the deck and waiting to draw it, but still having a benefit if you are a dwarf. Don't know if thats a good thing or not.

Also quite like your ideas for DWC06, DWU02 and DWU04.

DWC06 - Like the idea but not sure the wording is right?

DWU02 Bombur - how about adding ...
For each possession Bombur bears he is Vitality +1 and Resistance -1.

Also - Bombur is from The Hobbit right? Any chance of giving this game text to another Dwarf? Probably doesn't make much sense though on anyone else though i suppose.

[simplegarak]

Assuming we put a Bilbo in this set perhaps we should make a simple weapon that he can bear.

Your DWC04 would currently deploy on Bilbo. But giving him Damage +1 doesn't seem right. Perhaps something simple like this:

Little Axe
Stength +2
Bearer must be a companion.
While bearer is a Dwarf and you can spot a culture token, bearer is damage +1.

This gives the flexibility of having the same effects as a hobbit sword without needing to put on in the deck and waiting to draw it, but still having a benefit if you are a dwarf. Don't know if thats a good thing or not.

Not bad, except I think phrasing would be, "if bearer is a dwarf..."

Also quite like your ideas for DWC06, DWU02 and DWU04.

DWC06 - Like the idea but not sure the wording is right?

DWU02 Bombur - how about adding ...
For each possession Bombur bears he is Vitality +1 and Resistance -1.

Also - Bombur is from The Hobbit right? Any chance of giving this game text to another Dwarf? Probably doesn't make much sense though on anyone else though i suppose.

Well Bombur is from the hobbit but I learned that apparently Frodo asked about him which is where we find out he now "needs 6 dwarves to help him move".  I made him as a joke, but like I said, would prefer to replace him with a Bilbo if we were to.

anyone remember a shadow card that reacts to a character dying so I can check the wording?

[chompers]

Well Bombur is from the hobbit but I learned that apparently Frodo asked about him which is where we find out he now "needs 6 dwarves to help him move".  I made him as a joke, but like I said, would prefer to replace him with a Bilbo if we were to.

anyone remember a shadow card that reacts to a character dying so I can check the wording?

I like fun cards and cards that are different to what have already been made - that's what drew my attention to Bombur. I had a chuckle when i read him

DWC06 - perhaps it can be a response action ...

Response: When a dwarf companion is placed in the dead pile, make every companion stength +2 until the regroup phase.