The Road Goes On! The Long Defeat

[Cw0rk]

Good idea to make Legolas wound minions instead. I'd like your Aragorn to be Rare to fit with his Legolas and Gimli counterparts. What about making him Strength 9?

Hidden Realms
Condition • Support Area
Legendary. Tale. (When this card is about to go to the discard pile from play, it goes to the dead pile instead).
Maneuver: Spot an Elf and discard this condition to replace the current site with a forest or river site with Shadow number 2 or more from your adventure deck.
C

So the point of this card being legendary is that it stops you using it again and again with cards like Gil-galad

Well... if you don't want any Gil-Galad abuse, you could just add 'Remove this card from the game.' If Gil-Galad is still a problem just X-List him.

Lost Secret is interesting.

I don't understand how you could abuse Learn from the Past.

I thought there wouldn't be that much 'Legendary' cards. The keyword sounds like its a very important card. Some of the one you made are regular commons and uncommons. However, The Long Defeat looks pretty legendary.

At first I wasn't sure about Legendary, however... Allies are going to the Dead Pile so why not having other types of cards here as well.

[stimpy]

I am wondering about the dead pile: how does it work when a unique companion is in play and then another copy later goes to the dead pile (as in The Long Defeat)? Also, how do you keep track of the rule of 9 when you are moving companions into the dead pile from the discard pile? Just curious about this stuff.

[Thranduil]

I thought there wouldn't be that much 'Legendary' cards. The keyword sounds like its a very important card. Some of the one you made are regular commons and uncommons. However, The Long Defeat looks pretty legendary.

2 things to say about this: 1) It is not as common as I've made it out to be, and I doubt that all those cards I posted would see the light of day in the same set, more likely spread over the block. 2) is also one of the best cultures for legendary, so you expect to see more in that culture than others.

I am wondering about the dead pile: how does it work when a unique companion is in play and then another copy later goes to the dead pile (as in The Long Defeat)? Also, how do you keep track of the rule of 9 when you are moving companions into the dead pile from the discard pile? Just curious about this stuff.

To be honest, I had not thought about that! But presumably, you only care about the rule of 9 when you try to play a companion. Also, I did not make The Long Defeat clear as to whether it puts all your opponents' companions as well as their minions into the dead piles, and I'm not sure what the answer actually is!

I was also considering putting legendary on followers. What do you think about that?

Thranduil

[Cw0rk]

I was also considering putting legendary on followers. What do you think about that?

This would be a good idea, as long as it is an important character... don't put legendary on Bounder.

[chompers]

I was also considering putting legendary on followers. What do you think about that?

This would be a good idea, as long as it is an important character... don't put legendary on Bounder.

I would agree with this as it does make sense that followers should go to the dead pile like allies under the right circumstances.

[stimpy]

I am wondering about the dead pile: how does it work when a unique companion is in play and then another copy later goes to the dead pile (as in The Long Defeat)? Also, how do you keep track of the rule of 9 when you are moving companions into the dead pile from the discard pile? Just curious about this stuff.

To be honest, I had not thought about that! But presumably, you only care about the rule of 9 when you try to play a companion. Also, I did not make The Long Defeat clear as to whether it puts all your opponents' companions as well as their minions into the dead piles, and I'm not sure what the answer actually is!

I was also considering putting legendary on followers. What do you think about that?

Thranduil

Yeah, I can follow the idea of adding non-character cards to the dead pile as a way to spice up game play. I think when you start putting companions there in some of these quirky ways, it starts to create more problems though, and to me it is just a really powerful ability. Of course, I say this without knowing what the rest of your card ideas look like. I also can't say I'm the biggest fan of putting minions in the dead pile... it seems to create more strangeness to mix free peoples and shadow cards there.

As far as legendary followers, I don't see problems with that, just like I think conditions and events are OK. Overall I like your ideas and the creativity is great!

[Thranduil]

I also can't say I'm the biggest fan of putting minions in the dead pile... it seems to create more strangeness to mix free peoples and shadow cards there.

Well each player will have a Shadow dead pile and a FP dead pile, which I didn't make the most clear before, so they would be fairly separate.

I'll hopefully post some more legendary ideas soon.

Thranduil

[Thranduil]

Some more ideas:

•Galdor, Ambassador
Follower • Elf
Str: +2
Res: +1
Legendary. Aid – discard 2 cards from hand.
To play, spot an companion.
Each event you play during a skirmish involving bearer is legendary.
U

So here again legendary acts as a drawback. He had relatively high pay-off, but events you play for his bearer go to your dead pile.

•Dáin Ironfoot, Steadfast King
Follower • Dwarf
Res: +2
Legendary. Aid – discard the top 4 cards of your draw deck.
To play, spot your companion.
Bearer is valiant and damage +1.
Skirmish: Exert bearer twice or discard Dáin Ironfoot to make bearer strength +1 for each card in your dead pile.
R

Legendary here goes on a dead-pile effect.

Does that all seem good?



Now a bonus card:

•Boundaries of Elvenhome
Condition • Support Area
Monument. (While this card is in play, its game text is always active). Stealth.
To play, spot 2 Elves.
Each time another player plays a character (except at a sanctuary), that player must discard a card from hand.
R

Thranduil

[Cw0rk]

I'm not sure if a minor character like Galdor deserves to be legendary... He isn't doing anything in the movie... perhaps he is more important in the books.

Discarding the top 4 cards of my draw deck is a lot. Swap 'your companion' for 'a companion'.

Why do Boundaries of Elvenhome is a stealth card?

Other than that, everything looks great.

[chompers]

So are unique followers in the dead pile going to prevent another copy of them being played? This has implications for Dain Ironfoots gametext.

I might be off here .... but I think there is some confusion with the Legendary keyword ... it is meant to represent uniqueness and limit the cards use, but the keyword suggests the card / persona is a legend and this is not necessarily true the way i see it. Perhaps the keyword could be switched to something else (like Unique .... boring i know but perhaps it captures the essence of the keyword). Just my 2cents.

[Witchkingx5]

Discarding the top 4 cards of my draw deck is a lot.

I don't really think so, I mean, with all those legendary cards around here, you can pump bearer easily to strength +5 and more by exerting hm twice or discarding Dain.

[Thranduil]

I'm not sure if a minor character like Galdor deserves to be legendary... He isn't doing anything in the movie... perhaps he is more important in the books.

I hear where you're coming from. But I like him as legendary because he's an Elf and is going to go into the West, never to return.

So are unique followers in the dead pile going to prevent another copy of them being played? This has implications for Dain Ironfoots gametext.

So far, this is not true. The uniqueness dead rule currently only applies to companions. So a question: should the uniqueness dead pile rule apply to ALL legendary cards?

I might be off here .... but I think there is some confusion with the Legendary keyword ... it is meant to represent uniqueness and limit the cards use, but the keyword suggests the card / persona is a legend and this is not necessarily true the way i see it. Perhaps the keyword could be switched to something else (like Unique .... boring i know but perhaps it captures the essence of the keyword). Just my 2cents.

Good points. I think I would say it most represents the fact that things are continually lost from Middle-Earth never to return – spells, places, peoples – and turn into legends.

I don't really think so, I mean, with all those legendary cards around here, you can pump bearer easily to strength +5 and more by exerting hm twice or discarding Dain.

Here's another important clarification: currently, legendary cards only go to the dead pile if they would go to the discard pile from play (if permanents) or from the void (if events). So discarding legendary cards from draw decks or hands does not put them in the dead pile.

Another question: should legendary cards go to the dead pile whenever they're about to go to the discard pile?


Also a minor clarification. I do not intend all these legendary cards to be in the same set – these will be spread over the whole block, and I'm not sure a lot of them will even make the cut at all.

Thranduil

[Cw0rk]

So far, this is not true. The uniqueness dead rule currently only applies to companions. So a question: should the uniqueness dead pile rule apply to ALL legendary cards?

I think that it should. Otherwise it would require a modification of the current rules. Also, it gives more credibility to the keyword by differenciating it more than regular cards that goes to the discard pile. By the way, the uniqueness dead rule applies to allies as well.

Another question: should legendary cards go to the dead pile whenever they're about to go to the discard pile?

I guess that it would make more sense to put them in the dead pile only when they are discarded from play. From my point of view, even events are discarded from play (right after the have been played).

[chompers]

Dain Ironfoot is a powerhouse follower .... I like him alot. There are other comparable followers in terms of power like Rohirrim Doorwarden so he is hopefully not over-powered.

Strength +1 for each card in your dead pile encourages you to kill off companions, kill off allies, or get legendary cards in the dead pile. Get this guy on your RingBearer and you are looking pretty strong.

He is even better if he is not unique once he enters the dead pile. You discard him to get the strength bonus. This in turn will fuel the next Dain you play.

He would also be a nice trick with enduring wraiths. Wraiths with Gimli as RingBearer?

In short ... I like this Dain alot, but i think Legendary followers (and maybe even followers themselves?), not so much legendary cards in general need to prevent further copies being played once they have entered the dead pile.

[Thranduil]

So I think the consensus is that legendary cards should follow the normal uniqueness rule for the dead pile. And it shall be so.

I told you I'd be using the adventure decks in ways never before done. How about this guy (I apologise for the lack of a spread of cultures, but I was using and a bit of for my test cases):

•Haldir, Guardian of Lothlórien
Companion • Elf
Str: 7
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Archer. Ranger. Valiant.
At the start of each turn, you must reveal a forest site from your adventure deck or discard Haldir.
U