The Irresistible Shadow

[hrcho]

I ran to site 9, had no cards left in deck, 4 burdens and Thin and Stretched on my RB. I managed to avoid the fifth burden until all skirmishes have ended. My RB wasn't assigned to a skirmish that turn and another companion was. What then?

Does my turn end and I win or does my turn end and I add a burden and thus lose because of The Irresistible Shadow? I know there is no regroup phase on the last site (unless that site is Caverns of Isengard), but I do not know if there is an end of turn.

[Tbiesty]

I'd say once the criteria for your Free Peoples' winning is reached (i.e. no more skirmishes left, or Shadow player reconciles with Caverns of Isengard), the game simply ends.  So anything triggered by "end of turn" does not happen.

[ket_the_jet]

I agree with Tbiesty, but I have always played it as the end of the turn was the end of the last possible phase. Which would mean that you would take the burden.

Again, I think Tbiesty is right. I have just dealt with some naysayers on GCCG and don't care about my W/L record.
-wtk

[rubbercarp]

I'd say once the criteria for your Free Peoples' winning is reached (i.e. no more skirmishes left, or Shadow player reconciles with Caverns of Isengard), the game simply ends.  So anything triggered by "end of turn" does not happen.

That's my understanding as well.

[Thranduil]

Of course the confusion is between "at end of turn" and the fact that the game ends at the end of the skirmish phases at site 9. Does your turn end when the game ends? It certainly doesn't specifically say so in the comprehensive rulebook. The only time it mentions your turn ending is in the last step of the regroup phase.

I would think that Thin and Stretched probably ought to kill you, given that you end your turn (and the game) with the conditions for Irresistible Shadow, but I'm not sure there is any way of making a ruling one way or the other—the rules don't seem to be clear enough on this.

[TheJord]

I would postulate that winning the game and taking the burden would both be required actions. Therefore, the FP would get to choose.

[Thranduil]

I would postulate that winning the game and taking the burden would both be required actions. Therefore, the FP would get to choose.

It's not at all clear that winning the game is any kind of action. I would like this to be the answer, however: very clean!

Thran

[itjunkie]

hrm...I think that you'd have to take the burden since taking the burden isn't part of the regroup phase so Im assuming it's an action to be taken just before the skirmish phase ends... then again, im just assuming...

[Elessar's Socks]

I'd go with no burden/loss; the game ends before the end of your turn.

[itjunkie]

..how can the game end before the turn?

[Thranduil]

..how can the game end before the turn?

Well the argument would go that the turn ends at the end of the regroup phase (as specified in the comprehensive rulebook), but the game ends at the end of all skirmish phases at site 9. So perhaps the turn hasn't ended yet?

Thranduil

[itjunkie]

..if the game ends at the end of the skirmish phase at site9, then wouldn't logic dictate that the turn for site 9 ends at the end of the skirmish phase as well?

also, does this mean that if I have 4 exhausted companions at site 9 and 4 threats... then the last companion to fight in a skirmish loses and dies, does the game end since there are no skirmishes left? or does threat wounds need to be assigned and kill the rest of the fellowship?

[Elessar's Socks]

Basically, the rulebook describes when the end of a turn happens. I don't see support in there for triggering that when a turn is interrupted.

also, does this mean that if I have 4 exhausted companions at site 9 and 4 threats... then the last companion to fight in a skirmish loses and dies, does the game end since there are no skirmishes left? or does threat wounds need to be assigned and kill the rest of the fellowship?

These threat wounds would be assigned before the skirmish resolves.

[Kralik]

Normal order is:

-Skirmish phrase
-Regroup phase
-Shadow reconciles
-Freeps decides to move/stay
-If Freeps stays, their turn is over

The way I see it with site 9 and The Irresistible Shadow is:

-Skirmish phrase
-->Check: If not at Caverns of Isengard, and the RB is alive and well, the Free Peoples player wins. Game over.
-->Otherwise...
-Regroup phase
-Shadow reconciles
-->Check: If RB is alive and well, the Free Peoples player wins. Game over.
-Freeps decides to move/stay
-If Freeps stays, their turn is over

The turn never officially ends, because the entire game was resolved prior to that point. If you want to be technical, perhaps you can say that the turn ended when the game ending interrupted it. But, in that case, the results have already been decided.

[TheJord]

-Skirmish phrase

Something like HIIIIIYAAAAAA!