CArds that suck.

[Ringbearer]

OK, I like to see which cards we in general think suck. Those cards would be ideal to give a working counterpart.

Obvious targets:

The Weight of a Legacy
The Seen and the Unseen
The Nine Walkers
ALive and Unspoiled
Men of Harad

These are just examples. I am sure there are also main character personas that can get a workable gametext.

[hrcho]

I must disagree with you on The Nine Walkers and The Seen and the Unseen.

There are some nice decks around The Nine Walkers and although its use is limited, it's still a nice card.

As for The Seen and the Unseen, it's a common condition removal. It's easy to throw in 4 Company of Archers into any of your decks on GCCG, but that is not so easy a task with real cards. And so this card was created. It proves a nice alternative for those who couldn't afford the so many copies of The Company of Archers or Secret Sentinels. Its cost is also not that big if you think inside FotR block. There you have cards such as Elrond, LoR and Galadriel, LoL that provide extreme healing.

[Kralik]

I also use the Seen and the Unseen along with Secret Sentinels in my Fellowship allies/choke deck. I always have exertions to spare on the allies and it's nice to kill Goblin Armory, for example, before I move.

[Kralik]

I've tried hard to make a combo Sauron/Uruk discard deck, but never seemed to be able to pull it off. Presumably that's how you would get the burdens (other than Worry). There are a lot of Fellowship cards that tie together the three non-Moria shadows, but in general they are harder to use than mono Shadow.

[Abbott465]

I tried a Sauron Uruk/ Isenguard Uruk movie block deck once very fun to play with but it never really won at all. Though I never did try the corruption side that sounds like a fun deck.

[jdizzy001]

What about a rehash of heir to the white city, say, "when the fellowship moves during the fellowship phase you may exert aragorn to remove 2 twilight" for example

[Jerba]

What about a rehash of heir to the white city, say, "when the fellowship moves during the fellowship phase you may exert aragorn to remove 2 twilight" for example

THIS. This guy needs to be re-done.

[Tbiesty]

Just my two cents...

If you guys are looking for cards to "virtualize", why not just start with the cards on the X-lists.  Unless they are changed, they can't be used for the most part anyways, so they are good candidates for a first V-set.

Some ideas for game text changes to the X-listed cards are here.

[Kralik]

I've replied on the other thread disagreeing with changing the X-listed cards, but Tbiesty's may be a good idea! Leave the originals as-is and X'ed but create alternate virtual versions.

[Ringbearer]

Those are good ideas, tho I rather see virtualise cards into brand new ideas instead of fixing cards.

[Witchkingx5]

Yeah, I think there are two general approaches of remaking cards:

1) "Fixing" cards that were so strong they had to be banned. Taking the same effect and make it a bit weaker often isn't the best option, though, as we still want to keep those cards good, not OP.

2) "Remaking" "bad" cards. You see what I did there, I actually think there are very few really bad cards, The Seen and the Unseen definitely not being one of them. A problem about this method is, that we don't have to make those cards way to powerful. That's a mistake many card designers make: They want to create something specialand in the end, it's either #$&*@! or way over the top. I don't have a problem creating a card very few people will play over a card that no one plays (e.g. TWoaL).

Just my two cents.

[Tbiesty]

I agree with you Witchkingx5.

I'll add that I'm thinking the first Virtual Set (and just the first) should take approach 1 (fixing the banned cards).  There are a specific number of them (like 20 or so), so it would be a good exercise for the "Dream Team" to show how it can design, produce, distribute (via V-slips and perhaps GCCG), and play-test a Virtual Set successfully.

Once that achievement has been successfully reached (proving that the "Dream Team" can provide quality work), then further Virtual Sets using more of approach 2 (remaking cards) can be pursued.  These Virtual Sets should then stick to a "theme" (Hobbits escaping the Nazgul, Rohan deceived by Saruman and Evil Men, etc.), rather than just make random weaker cards more powerful.   If virtualizing a currently weak card fits into a "theme", even better.

...more of my two cents.

[Ringbearer]

I would rather see set 1 more as a "look, this is what we do" idea. Adressing the X-list in general could be much better in a future set where we tackle all cards at once. As I posted in the other thread set 1 should be more of an introduction.

Also, could we stay on topic and keep discussing set 1 in the set 1 thread please.