Preliminary Discussion: Lady Redeemed

[Imrahil]

Get rid of her and my lovely elves are screwed, let her stay and everything else is screwed.  I agree that she should be banned as a TLHH house rule, but that's going to force me to run a Gandalf splash.

I mean, you guys remember how it was at the end, you had to run a freeps side capable of beating corsairs, and a minion side capable of sniping Galadriel.  Get rid of Galadriel and we're still all going to have to run corsair-hate.  And for someone like me (50% of what I face is either Besiegers or Corsairs), it's a tough pill to swallow.

[Kralik]

Perhaps it would be better to consider whether she could stay with errata. I could see her as being somewhat feasible if the cost was increased to... maybe... two exerts. Shadow Between (for example) makes one exert not enough.

[Shelobplayer]

I think you should either ban her or leave her as she is. I always hated errata, but that's not my point here. Not everyone reads these forums, who plays on GCCG, it would only cause unnecessary conflicts (and bad gaming experience) to change her game text. On the other hand, if the deck validator marks a deck with LR illegal, there wouldn't be place for argument.

[Gil-Estel]

Agreed with that. Leave the Elves without possessionremoval, go with the old Bearded Wizard to add that to your decks!

[Thranduil]

As soon as LR was released, every deck that could possibly stretch to play her was doing so. Very soon after that, every deck that could possibly stretch to play Terrible as the Dawn was playing it to kill LR.

Any card that makes everyone bend over backwards to include it in a huge variety of decks, and that is so powerful and so scary that the entire format has to be warped by everyone bending over backwards to fit in its hoser is a broken card and should be banned.

Errata can come at a later date. If we want a ruling now, I don't really see any reason that she shouldn't be banned.

Thran

[Kralik]

Thran has a point...

[Witchkingx5]

Yeah, it's kinda like Survival of the Fittest...

but still, you'll to have Tier One Decks, and as soon as LR is officially banned, you'll soon have some random dudes crying how OP Castamir of Umbar is, and how they get crushed by that Monster and bla bla bla...

So from my point of view, ban her, but do never ever ever ever again ban anything else that is legal now. Even though some cards might be strictly "better" thatn others, you just can't avoid that kinda situation. Or just go and paly Chess and start complaining about the 0.25 pawns advantage the White player has for being able to begin the game.

[Kralik]

Castamir of Umbar is OP with or without LR. I don't see taking LR away as really changing that much.

[Inspire]

I do not play with cards from RotK and further very often, but it seems to me the simplest solution might be to just remove her reduced cost in the starting fellowship. She would still remain a great card, just a more appropriately costed one. Plus, it's likely a much easier errata for players to remember than changing her ability to remove conditions/possession.

[Witchkingx5]

Castamir of Umbar is OP with or without LR. I don't see taking LR away as really changing that much.

But you don't play castamir of Umbar much besides a Corsair Deck, do you? And LR just roasts Corsairs.

[Thranduil]

Castamir of Umbar is OP with or without LR. I don't see taking LR away as really changing that much.

But you don't play castamir of Umbar much besides a Corsair Deck, do you? And LR just roasts Corsairs.

But that's the point. LR goes in almost any deck. Castamir only goes in Corsairs. This is one of the major reasons that I think LR is OP while Castamir is not.

Thran

[Kralik]

Even though I think Tubby is OP, I do not suggest that he be removed. I think the same about Cirdan, for example. LR goes much further than either of those, and messes with many, many more Shadow decks than just being a counter for Corsairs. My opinion, as it stands, is that Elves do not need LR, nor should they have her.

You might say, "but what else can I do to save myself from the Corsairs and Besiegers?"
To which I reply, "What can my poor four hobbits (non-Shadowplay) fellowship do to save themselves from the same?"

My fellowship is vulnerable to a number of things, but other times it does quite well. That's the nature of the game. I don't think it's a problem that Elves, already having an advantage with archery and companions like Cirdan and Gilgalad, are vulnerable to certain Shadows either.

[Kralik]

What was Decipher thinking in making her free anyway?

[Imrahil]

Castamir of Umbar is OP with or without LR. I don't see taking LR away as really changing that much.

But you don't play castamir of Umbar much besides a Corsair Deck, do you? And LR just roasts Corsairs.

But that's the point. LR goes in almost any deck. Castamir only goes in Corsairs. This is one of the major reasons that I think LR is OP while Castamir is not.

Thran

The easy answer to the problem then, is to provide LR with cultural reinforcement.  Unfortunately, I think most players will agree with me when I say that cultural reinforcement alone is not enough.  The fact that "Castamir only goes with Corsairs" didn't stop everyone and their mother from playing Corsairs back in the day, just as cultural reinforcement on LR will just encourage people to play elves.

I admit that I don't really play with LR, because I too feel that the effect is too good for the cost.  In consequence I have died to Corsairs countless times.  I have been swarmed, I have been overwhelmed, I have had all my bows discarded, I have been destroyed by Under Foot, and even (insult to injury) Red Wrathed.  I just can't touch the shadow support area, and against a good Corsair side that means I will lose 80% of the time.

And I am getting tired of losing.

I understand that a ban is inevitable, and I accept that.  But bear in mind that Decipher's designers meant each set to be balanced, and that means that LR was printed as a check on other elements in the set, just as the other elements were strengthened to counter LR.

So if you ban her, just remember to make all those stupid ships into conditions, or my poor, doomed little elves will continue to sacrifice themselves in futile displays of courage.

[Kralik]

Do you play anything besides Elves? Or other styles of Elves? My Elven discard seems to do well vs. Corsairs...