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Author Topic: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards  (Read 8414 times)

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February 26, 2011, 10:49:37 AM
Reply #15

Tbiesty

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2011, 10:49:37 AM »
Any more comments, etc. on these lists?

I'd like to make sure everyone (especially the Rules Team) gets a chance to make suggestions, etc. before we do any voting on the restricted lists or have discussions about the exact errata.

Thanks!

February 26, 2011, 11:39:52 AM
Reply #16

jcb213

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2011, 11:39:52 AM »
Does R-listing Ottar fix the problem with him?  Since you can pull him with AWINL and heal him with Elrond, HtGG you really only need one copy to abuse him.

Also, I don't know that R-listing Flaming Brand is a good idea.  Nazgul already are bad against many of the best free peoples deck in Movie Block and most of the other shadows are much better too.  If Flaming Brand is allowed back even at one copy per deck (most decks only played 1 or 2 copies anyway before it was banned) that would make Nazgul even worse.  Perhaps it would be better to errata Flaming Brand to only play on Aragorn which would make creative deck choice as people would have to play something other than Anduril, FotW if they want to play Flaming Brand.

February 26, 2011, 11:54:48 AM
Reply #17

Tbiesty

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2011, 11:54:48 AM »
Does R-listing Ottar fix the problem with him?  Since you can pull him with AWINL and heal him with Elrond, HtGG you really only need one copy to abuse him.
I think it would make you "invest" enough cards to get him to work. Elrond, HtGG would have to heal Ottar once instead of himself twice, that's a trade-off.  A positive thing about this being "House Rules", it that if we find that a specific card is a problem a month down the road, we would have the ability to correct it through this "House Rules" process.

Also, I don't know that R-listing Flaming Brand is a good idea.  Nazgul already are bad against many of the best free peoples deck in Movie Block and most of the other shadows are much better too.  If Flaming Brand is allowed back even at one copy per deck (most decks only played 1 or 2 copies anyway before it was banned) that would make Nazgul even worse.  Perhaps it would be better to errata Flaming Brand to only play on Aragorn which would make creative deck choice as people would have to play something other than Anduril, FotW if they want to play Flaming Brand.
That is certainly a fine idea.  I'll update the list.

February 26, 2011, 11:57:08 AM
Reply #18

Tbiesty

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2011, 11:57:08 AM »
Great!  Thanks guys.  Those are some good ideas we can work out as far as the actual errata for those cards.  We'll get to the errata later.

First, let's discuss which cards would still need to be restricted in each format. Remember: no banned cards.  I'd like to hear opinions on these lists... Is a card in a list, but it shouldn't be?  Is a card not in a list, but it should be?

"House Rules"  Fellowship:
   Forces of Mordor (based on the results of this discussion)

"House Rules"  Towers Standard:
   Ottar, Man of Laketown
   No Stranger to the Shadows
   Savagery to Match Their Numbers
   Forces of Mordor
   Uruk Regular

"House Rules"  Movie:
   Ottar, Man of Laketown
   No Stranger to the Shadows
   Savagery to Match Their Numbers
   Relics of Moria
   Forces of Mordor
   Bill the Pony
   Frying Pan
   Aggression

"House Rules"  Poorman's:
   (none)    (based on the results of this discussion)


Errata:  (the exact errata will be figured out in later discussions, until then the following cards would remain banned in the "House Rules" Towers Standard and "House Rules" Movie formats)

   Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
   Galadriel, Lady of Light
   Ulaire Nertea, Messenger of Dol Guldur
   Aragorn, Heir to the White City
   Sting
   Flaming Brand
   Horn of Boromir
   The Palantir of Orthanc
   Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
   Steadfast Champion
   Base of Mindolluin
   Memories of Darkness
   Galadriel, Lady Redeemed
   Mordor Fiend

[I'll update and re-post this post as new suggestions, etc. come in.]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 09:18:15 AM by Tbiesty »

February 26, 2011, 01:10:25 PM
Reply #19

Kralik

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2011, 01:10:25 PM »
I'm thinking it will be best to make a separate thread and deal with each card at one time.

February 26, 2011, 01:17:44 PM
Reply #20

Tbiesty

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2011, 01:17:44 PM »
I'm thinking it will be best to make a separate thread and deal with each card at one time.
That's fine.  I just wanted to make sure we have a "big picture" view of things first, so we know what all the cards involved in this process will be before we begin.

There is one other issue I want to get addressed before we go through these cards one-by-one.  Here is the thread for that issue.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 01:39:46 PM by Tbiesty »

February 27, 2011, 06:24:00 PM
Reply #21

Tbiesty

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2011, 06:24:00 PM »
We will start going through the cards one-by-one starting March 4th (once this poll is closed).

   Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
   Galadriel, Lady of Light
   Ottar, Man of Laketown
   No Stranger to the Shadows
   Savagery to Match Their Numbers
   Relics of Moria
   Ulaire Nertea, Messenger of Dol Guldur
   Forces of Mordor
   Sting
   Flaming Brand
   Filibert Bolger, Wily Rascal
   O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
   Aragorn, Heir to the White City
   Horn of Boromir
   Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
   The Palantir of Orthanc
   Bill the Pony
   Frying Pan
   Uruk Regular
   Steadfast Champion
   Aggression
   Memories of Darkness
   Galadriel, Lady Redeemed
   Mordor Fiend
   Base of Mindolluin


We can go through the cards in whichever order people want, so suggest a card and it will be put at the front of the list.
Thanks in advance for your participation!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 09:22:39 AM by Tbiesty »

February 27, 2011, 07:36:39 PM
Reply #22

Kralik

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2011, 07:36:39 PM »
When and why did The Shire Countryside make the Movie list?

(Yes, it is one of my pet cards)

February 27, 2011, 07:51:31 PM
Reply #23

Tbiesty

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2011, 07:51:31 PM »
When and why did The Shire Countryside make the Movie list?
(Yes, it is one of my pet cards)
I at least wanted to have a discussion about it.  I've had decks and seen decks that use cards like A Light In His Mind, No Help For It, etc. with multiple copies of The Shire Countryside and the ability to heal your entire fellowship at every site may be considered by some unfair.  If nobody else thinks it's an issue, that's fine. I felt there was no harm in a least discussing it.

February 28, 2011, 02:03:28 AM
Reply #24

Ringbearer

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2011, 02:03:28 AM »
Shire Countryide hit X fat after movie. I dont think its that bad that it need touching.

February 28, 2011, 05:08:17 AM
Reply #25

Tbiesty

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2011, 05:08:17 AM »
Shire Countryide hit X fat after movie.
True, it wasn't banned until after Movie was defined. But the same was true for Galadriel, Lady Redeemed. Again, I think it's at least worth a discussion.

February 28, 2011, 05:17:55 AM
Reply #26

ket_the_jet

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2011, 05:17:55 AM »
Discussion ended. There isn't any way to protect the condition in Movie Block. It requires set-up to run.

I think it is fine.
-wtk

February 28, 2011, 09:22:19 AM
Reply #27

Tbiesty

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Re: Preliminary Discussion: Process for unbanning cards
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2011, 09:22:19 AM »
Ok, I took it off the list.  I'm glad we at least talked about it.  No harm, no foul.