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Author Topic: A political question  (Read 4347 times)

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April 06, 2011, 03:03:22 PM
Reply #30

macheteman

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Re: A political question
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2011, 03:03:22 PM »
And to whoever voted my comment down, this is my thread, go hate somewhere else.

i'll go ahead and :up: it to even it out

April 06, 2011, 04:41:14 PM
Reply #31

jdizzy001

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Re: A political question
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2011, 04:41:14 PM »

- education is a main concern of the government
- government should provide standards
- those standards are for students and teachers alike
- there should be a trigger for teachers to keep investing, both subjectbound as pedagogical
- there should be a trigger to keep investing in your self

If education becomes the concern of the government, government corruption finds its way into the school system (at least it has here in the US). Here in the US school administrators keep advocating tax increases to fund schools and every time the taxes go up the administrators line their pockets. The money never reaches the class rooms and the following year more taxes are levied as advocated by the administrators.

In an all privatized education system the trigger, or incentive, for teacher to keep investing would be the motivation to keep their job (just like in the private sector). If I don't perform, I lose my job. If the teachers fail to perform they should lose their job as well. Now I understand this brings up a whole slew of questions such as: how do you measure teacher performance? Well, every employer across the United States has found a way to measure employee performance, I guarantee in an all private school system the employers would find a way to measure teacher performance.

As far as government providing standards goes, that is thin ice. That sounds like an autocracy to me. If it's not an autocracy then it sounds like the idea of Liberty by Law. There is no Law that gives a human liberty. people are free because they are. Then again, you probably meant government should set educational standards. As I have already stated I am against that Idea too.

Nevertheless, that's cool to hear you're a teacher Gil, I didn't know that. 
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April 07, 2011, 01:53:12 AM
Reply #32

Gil-Estel

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Re: A political question
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2011, 01:53:12 AM »
I get your points, but it is flawed -obviously in my opinion ;-). You say that with government involvement, corruption will arise. I will not argue that, since everywhere man shows up, corruption follows its trail. But in my opinion free market is way more likely to get corruption going. If you want me to, I can give you numerous examples. Free market works at a small scale perfectly. If I were to start a bakery in a small village, that already has one, it is obviously that I have to increase my quality, or decrease my prises, in order to gain customers. It has proven how ever, numerous times, that the larger the company, the less trasparant it becomes, and more likely to enable corruption. For instance in case of education, if grades were to form a criteria, I could easily manipulate those to get a positive evaluation.
I see government and the people as one. The government should be the first employee of the people, just like your George Washington had in mind, idealizing Cincinatus, the Roman leader who was a farmer, and after serving his people, he went home to work on his land.
The bad thing about democracy is that it has an inbuild flaw, that people can be chosen for the wrong reasons. I don't trust someone who spends so much money just to become a president. You should vote for an idea in general, not a person. In my ideal world politics should be the least appealing jobs out there. People should do it because of their intrinsic moitvation, just the way I became a teacher. Not for the money, or the many holidays I became teacher, the fist can be better, the latter is just fine though. I wanted to become a teacher, to be involved in young peoples lives. Politicians should be in it for the will to serve their country the best way possible, not for the money, or the power. And we all know that there are those who are in it for just these reasons.
You don't become a CEO because of your good looks, or because you are such a funny guy. You are qualified, no matter whether someone else was more qualified and you get the job due to connections. People who know the company thought you were the right man for the job, since your profile matches the companies one.

Another reason why the marketidea doesn't apply to the school is the great variety of factors involved. Here in the Netherlands government is toying with the idea, an idea not a single teacher has asked for. The idea of 'creating' an excellent teacher. Who that teacher is, is to be determined by the principal, and that teacher is granted more money, more time to invest in him self, and is to coach other teachers to become just like him. But what is an excellent teacher? You raised the same question, trusting the answer will come, but I will guarantee you, there won't be an answer for that. You are dealing with so many different issues, it is horrible to set such standards. Social background, ability to learn, class sizes, personalities -both teacher and student- etc etc. What if my pupil is not good at school, grades are poor etc. But at a certain point in his live he makes a right decision involving drugs due to something I have told him. I would say I was the best teacher around for him at that moment, but this is data that can never be measured.

Goal of eduaction is to allow people to invest in them selves, and to make them 'good' citizens. Like I said, there is too much data that can't be measured to set that standard.

Well it has become too long a story, but it has my heart, that's why....sorry if I have bored you ;-)
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April 07, 2011, 08:00:14 AM
Reply #33

Gate Troll

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Re: A political question
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2011, 08:00:14 AM »
The bad thing about democracy is that it has an inbuild flaw, that people can be chosen for the wrong reasons. I don't trust someone who spends so much money just to become a president. You should vote for an idea in general, not a person.

And that's why most Presidential elections in the US are a 'chose the lesser of two evils' game. The primary eliminates all the good candidates in favor of the most popular, richest, and most outspoken candidates. That's what happened back in '08, and in retrospect, McCain probably wouldn't have been much better than Obama.

As far as the 2012 election goes, I swear, if Donald Trump becomes the GOP candidate, I'm writing in Ron Paul.

April 07, 2011, 12:45:49 PM
Reply #34

TheJord

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Re: A political question
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2011, 12:45:49 PM »
I have heard so many Americans use the 'lesser of two evils' line!

Try British politics...
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April 07, 2011, 03:10:47 PM
Reply #35

macheteman

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Re: A political question
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2011, 03:10:47 PM »
I AM!!!!

April 07, 2011, 06:06:51 PM
Reply #36

jdizzy001

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Re: A political question
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2011, 06:06:51 PM »
Americans:

Who is excited for a government shutdown tomorrow?
-wtk

it happens all the time, they're called holidays.

The government should be the first employee of the people,

that is where we first differ. Despite the fact George Washington may have wanted that, I always supported Jefferson's political ideas over Washington's. I think the gov't should employ enough people to fulfill the three roles I mentioned earlier.

However, I do agree that one should vote for an idea in general, not a person. Politics should be the least appealing jobs out there.

All in all, what I want is for everyone to have the freedom to succeed. To work, succeed and be happy, to achieve the standard of living they desire, and historically, governments have never been able to grant that to the people. They can't grant success, or happiness, because it comes from within. it doesn't come from a government.
*All posts made by jdizzy001, regardless of the thread in which they appear, are expressions of his own opinion and as such are not representative of views shared by any third party unless expressly acknowledged as such by said party.

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April 11, 2011, 06:10:17 PM
Reply #37

sickofpalantirs

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Re: A political question
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2011, 06:10:17 PM »
Just throwing my 2 cents on the education cause I'm a spammer and it's what I do ;)

I think public schools should become mini public universities, namely because the latter are considered successful and people come from all over the world to attend them...and the former...not so much.  Obviously they could be less expensive than university, but I think there should be cost.  You could offset it so that poor people could go with FAFSA's, financial aid, merit scholarships etc. 

Then you hire teachers based solely on how well they teach, since you don't need research, pay them well, and see what happens.  That's my  :gp: :gp:
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April 12, 2011, 04:50:52 AM
Reply #38

FM

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Re: A political question
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2011, 04:50:52 AM »
Then you hire teachers based solely on how well they teach [...]

And just how, exactly, do you measure this? Grades? Those can be forged by the teacher (in fact, I believe some teachers from Chicago got fired a while ago for doing exactly that). Post-school accomplishments? Much more based on sheer luck, brown-nosing or not having other people pulling the rug from under you that merit itself. Not to mention starting points also vary, depending on how much wealth you had already, prior to entering the working force in full.

April 12, 2011, 08:58:48 AM
Reply #39

sickofpalantirs

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Re: A political question
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2011, 08:58:48 AM »
Then you hire teachers based solely on how well they teach [...]

And just how, exactly, do you measure this? Grades? Those can be forged by the teacher (in fact, I believe some teachers from Chicago got fired a while ago for doing exactly that). Post-school accomplishments? Much more based on sheer luck, brown-nosing or not having other people pulling the rug from under you that merit itself. Not to mention starting points also vary, depending on how much wealth you had already, prior to entering the working force in full.
\

Good points all, and this is, admittedly the flaw in my plan.  Nevertheless, pretty much any student can tell whether or not a teacher is good.  I can pretty much run through my list of teachers and say whether they were good, bad, awesome, sufficient etc.  The main problem in having student evaluations factor in is that people might choose based on how much they liked a teacher, not on how well the teacher taught (though, if students like a bad teacher they are probably going to learn more from them than from a hated good teacher).  You should definitely not evaluate them on grades, though you could evaluate AP teachers on how well their students did on the AP test. 

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April 18, 2011, 08:01:20 PM
Reply #40

SomeRandomDude

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Re: A political question
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2011, 08:01:20 PM »
I always supported Jefferson's political ideas over Washington's.

*facepalm*

The views of the Americans commenting on this thread are not necessarily the views of the majority of the American populace.

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April 18, 2011, 08:31:10 PM
Reply #41

macheteman

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Re: A political question
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2011, 08:31:10 PM »
see, i've always supported MY views more than any of the founding fathers... thats how I stay out of trouble...

April 18, 2011, 09:13:20 PM
Reply #42

jdizzy001

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Re: A political question
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2011, 09:13:20 PM »
The views of the Americans commenting on this thread are not necessarily the views of the majority of the American populace.

Did I ever say my views reflect those of all Americans? This is a genuine question cause I don't recall saying that. Much like Macheteman, I support my own views, those views just happen to coenside with conservative politics.

*All posts made by jdizzy001, regardless of the thread in which they appear, are expressions of his own opinion and as such are not representative of views shared by any third party unless expressly acknowledged as such by said party.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 02:39:22 PM by jdizzy001 »
*All posts made by jdizzy001, regardless of the thread in which they appear, are expressions of his own opinion and as such are not representative of views shared by any third party unless expressly acknowledged as such by said party.

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April 19, 2011, 05:58:40 AM
Reply #43

macheteman

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Re: A political question
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2011, 05:58:40 AM »
my statement was a joke actually. i mean, naturally each person supports their own view, otherwise, they wouldn't hold to said view. but i in no way pretend that my political views are in any way "good" or "well thought through"

my basic opinion is that there are a lot of things to get upset and worked up about, and politics isn't really one of them for me. when it comes to things like human trafficking, homelessness, social injustice, its a whole different ballgame for me.

May 03, 2011, 01:08:44 PM
Reply #44

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Re: A political question
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2011, 01:08:44 PM »
And look at the returns...

The Greens got their first seat! Okay, all together now...Aw, now their Party Leader can actually be a real MP. Isn't that fun?
The Bloc pretty much no longer exists. They lost 43 out of 47 seats. Farewell, Gilles Duceppe. We will miss your bony face.
The Liberals lost over half their seats. Michael Ignatieff is gone. But hey- they still some clout. 43 Senators is nothing to laugh at... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right...
The Conservative took a majority. 143 to 167. Harper is back on top.
The NDP massacred the Bloc, and clobbered the Liberals. Jack Layton will make history as the first Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

This has been quite a week for news.
The tornadoes and floods devastating the American South... The Royal Wedding... Obama releasing his long-form... Osama getting capped by SEALs... Canadian election upsets... And Libya's still at war...