X-list interview

[V-R4NG3R]

To my original question about relics of moria: i have found the answer here.

the original thoughts after the xlisted cards. found it after some searchin

I'm sure you've heard by now – for the first time in the year since it was introduced, the Standard Format Exclusion list has been changed. I was recently able to gather some of the major players at Decipher together and ask them the How's and Why's of the new list.

Tom Lischke is a Senior Game Designer at Decipher. Decipher's game designers are responsible for creating the concepts behind a game or set and to write the cards themselves.

Geoff Snider is a Developer in the Design Studio. The Design Studio uses a game developer to refine a card or a particular strategy after the card is written but before it gets printed.

Trevor McGregor is the DGMA Event Coordinator and resident Lord of the Rings TCG rules guru also known as Elrond.

Here's what they had to say:

The X-list is arguably one of the most controversial decisions Decipher has made. Looking back almost a year later, are you still satisfied with the way it was implemented and do you think it has positively affected the game?

Tom: I can understand that players care about the environment and want to make sure that it is protected. That is really all the X-List is. Our efforts to protect the environment and everyone's ability to enjoy the game. I think it has done that.

Trevor: I was still a player when the X-List was introduced. I was skeptical at first but after building a couple of decks and playing a few games in Standard I was sold.

Geoff: I was satisfied with the way it was originally implemented, but there are definitely a few things I would change about the process of documentation, information gathering and decision-making involved in the evolution of ‘the list.'

If it didn't have a positive effect on the game (in the long run of course), it would never have been done.

New cards added to the list are: The Palantir of Orthanc, Frying Pan, Bill the Pony, and Relics of Moria. Let's tackle these one at a time.

The Palantir of Orthanc – Many people have been calling for this to be added to the X-list for months. In fact, it was highly rumored that it would be added last fall in anticipation of Return of the King and the Initiative mechanic. Why add it now and not then?

Trevor: The Palantir just offered a huge level of control for a player. They were able to control the tempo of the game for their opponent and that is not a good thing. There are a few Initiative strategies out there than can abuse the Palantir and that is something we really want to curb.

What strategies do you think this will open up for the Free Peoples?

Geoff: Supposedly, events will become more playable…so that means event-driven strategies like PATHS Hobbits, all-Dwarven fighting, and All-elven fighting will get a bit of a boost.

Tom: It should free up their ability to include a few more events in their decks. That should open up deck building a little bit, but it is really up to the players to explore exactly what that means.

Trevor: I agree that it should really open deck construction for the Free Peoples player. Not having to worry about the Palantir will be a nice change when building a deck.

Frying Pan – A great deal of people use this card as the be-all and end-all of anti-Moria cards – why add it to the X-list when Moria is still so prevalent at tournaments?

Tom: It is just way too easy. The cheapest resource in the game is Hobbit vitality, and to be able to translate that directly into wounds is just too much. It really hampers a lot of things that we would like to see people be able to do. At the same time, you are right about Moria, so this change couldn't happen in isolation.

Trevor: This card just fits all of the criteria when considering a card for the X-List. The Pan is under-cost, not enforced, and you must take it into account when building a shadow strategy based around orcs. It is also an automatic choice for just about every deck.

Geoff: The ‘pan' was created as an over-compensating answer to the Moria ‘swarm' strategy (as if there's some other kind of Moria strategy…well…I say that almost in jest), and when I say over-compensating, I mean it should've only affected Moria and no other type of Orc. In the long-term, it's having a negative impact on every other non-Moria Orc strategy (probably with the exception of Isengard) that relies on 1 and 2 vitality minions. A new balance will evolve between ‘non-pan' fellowships and ‘non-relics' Moria decks in the future.

Bill the Pony – Choke appears to be a major focus of the X-list. Why? What is it about cards like Bill that make them prime candidates for the list?

Trevor: Resource denial has proven to be a huge issue with Lord of the Rings TCG.

Geoff: I think the most important thing to note here is that when people play card games, we actually want them to be able to play their cards. It's one thing if passive denial (playing little to no cards) leads to a small pool of resources for your opponent. It's another thing entirely if active denial (playing cards that reduce the opponent's resources) is forcing an opponent's entire deck to shut down. Unfortunately, in the system we have, your Free Peoples ‘choke' strategy does more than just hinder your opponent's Shadow strategy. It hinders their deck's cycling…in turn hindering their Free Peoples strategy's ability to handle your own Shadow strategy. It has a very negative cyclic effect that many players can't fathom a way out of once they're stuck in it.

Why was Bill the Pony added and Talent for Not Being Seen left off?

Tom: The feeling is that Talent has more enforcement than Bill. Neither of them are great cards, but at least Talent requires some commitment to a strategy (you have to give up some options to include it instead of just throwing it in).

Trevor: Talent makes you work for it, you can't just throw it into any deck. Requiring two hobbits is huge difference compared to one; every deck has at least one hobbit. Bill is also a possession, Talent is a condition, it is much easier for a Shadow player to get rid of a condition as opposed to a possession

Relics of Moria – I'm sure there are a lot of people who would be glad to see less of Moria in the coming year, but most would not have considered this the lynchpin of the deck. What prompted this card being added to the X-list?

Trevor: We knew going into this that Relics of Moria would be the most controversial decision to be included on the list. Moria is an incredibly popular strategy for players the world over. Removing something that players are accustomed to including in every Moria deck is bound to stir some controversy. But the bottom line is Relics is far too efficient, it just does too much. Moria can still do what it did before; the goal wasn't to kill Moria. But now they have to work at it, a permanent way to start the cycle was just too much.

Geoff: The core of Moria is its ability to extend the Shadow player's hand. That theme was never really expanded upon after FotR was released for obvious reasons: too much of a good thing can be bad. Without the Scimitar, there really is no reasonable way for Moria's hand extension to happen, except through the use of 1 event (Threat of the Unknown). Just so we're clear, when I say ‘hand extension' in relation to Moria, I'm referring to the Shadow player being able to have drawn cards from their deck in the Shadow phase.

They Are Coming, on the other hand, is Relics' partner in crime. What do you do with all those extra cards you get from the four copies of the Scimitar you can play each turn? Play more minions. This, in turn, allows you to cycle your deck so that you're able to dig for an even greater number of minions on subsequent turns.

I'd also like to ask about some cards that weren't added that have been talked about on the Message Boards and other various and sundry places. I'll just throw out some card names and let you guys tell me why they weren't added…

Grima, Chief Counselor

Trevor: I think Grima is still a necessary evil. The "all-star" decks are still out there and having a valid counter for them is still necessary.

Legolas, Dauntless Hunter

Trevor: Dauntless Hunter gets a lot of press but he is enforced for what he does. We found that for Dauntless Hunter to work properly it requires an entire deck built for that purpose.

Geoff: This card fits the profile I mentioned earlier for ‘active denial.' However, his ability is enforced, as opposed to the abilities on other active denial cards like Aragorn, Heir to the White City or No Stranger to the Shadows. Another thing I have to point out about DH (as he is lovingly referred to as on message boards around the world), is that he doesn't affect a Shadow strategy's ability to play minions…and minions are a strategy's core method for stopping a fellowship. Frying Pan and Bill the Pony were already planned to be removed, and we found that Dauntless Hunter losses a bit of effectiveness without them.

Besides all the additions, Uruk Regular was removed. What were the thoughts behind this change?

Tom: With the Tower site path being gone it makes sense to bring him back. We had a lot of debate about including him in the first place, and that Deep of Helm is what pushed it over the edge. So now it doesn't seem to be over the line.

Trevor: The environment was just ready for him to return. Without the Two Towers site path or Saruman, Keeper of Isengard, the Regular just isn't what we consider abusive anymore.

Were there other cards that you considered removing, but decided better of it?

Trevor: We talked about the entire list but Uruk Regular is the only one that seems to be ready to be removed. It is a flexible list though, so every time we update it, everything will get looked at again.

Now, since I have you hostage, I have a few more questions:

In your mind, when does a card start raising flags saying it might need to go on (or off) the X-list?

Trevor: Under-cost or under-enforced are two huge red flags. If a card hinders the tournament environment or deck construction, it will definitely get some consideration.

Geoff: At a basic level, it's just a bunch of patterns that you come to observe and can recognize more easily over time. Go ahead and dig through the Return of the King section on Decipher.com. You'll find one of my articles there referring to my little secret list of ‘BA9' cards, and it'll tell you how to classify a ‘risky' card. Many traits of BA9 cards can be found on cards that are already on the X-list, but there are a few other traits that can put them there as well. Active resource denial is one trait. Another is a permanent that allows for unenforced card drawing (or in a broader sense, deck filtering). Some cards on the X-list increase the effectiveness of a Shadow culture beyond tolerable means (like Forces of Mordor). Others, like Savagery and Saruman allow for maximized efficiency on a scale so drastic, that without making ‘silver bullet' cards to stop them, they run rampant in a given environment. In short, there are specific traits that cards can possess to make them ‘bad,' and there are cards that are just plain ‘above the curve' from a power level standpoint.

Are there any cards or Strategies you are currently watching that may be X-list material in the future?

Trevor: We will always keep an eye on the tournament scene and overpowered combos of cards.

Thanks Gentlemen!