Next League Idea

[Nitsuj]

Marcin - for sealed leagues, since we don't get to keep our cards anymore... can you have an option to pay 50 to play in the league and not get to keep your cards, or like 150 to play in the league and keep your cards?

I'm gunshy to enter a sealed league, not getting to keep my cards, as well as having trouble to find matches.  The popularity seems to be in constructed leagues.

[MarcinS]

Marcin - for sealed leagues, since we don't get to keep our cards anymore... can you have an option to pay 50 to play in the league and not get to keep your cards, or like 150 to play in the league and keep your cards?

I'm gunshy to enter a sealed league, not getting to keep my cards, as well as having trouble to find matches.  The popularity seems to be in constructed leagues.

It would have to be at least 250g to keep the cards (you get 18 boosters and 3 starters). As for popularity - games usually are created for formats that have recently started their weeks. Towards the end of the league week it's harder to find opponents.

[Nitsuj]

Marcin - for sealed leagues, since we don't get to keep our cards anymore... can you have an option to pay 50 to play in the league and not get to keep your cards, or like 150 to play in the league and keep your cards?

I'm gunshy to enter a sealed league, not getting to keep my cards, as well as having trouble to find matches.  The popularity seems to be in constructed leagues.

It would have to be at least 250g to keep the cards (you get 18 boosters and 3 starters). As for popularity - games usually are created for formats that have recently started their weeks. Towards the end of the league week it's harder to find opponents.

Whatever the price, it would be nice to have an option.  I cannot see myself ever going into a sealed league without the cards.  And look at the drop off of players for this sealed week compared to the ones in the past - there is like 51 players in this sealed league.  Where as the last sealed league had 117.  Players aren't seeing the value in it, and would rather spend that $50 on cards for a collectors league.

Like, when King's block becomes available - without the product for sealed starting off your "my cards" collection, I just cannot see how I'd ever have enough cards for a constructed "my cards" league. 

[MarcinS]

Whatever the price, it would be nice to have an option.  I cannot see myself ever going into a sealed league without the cards.  And look at the drop off of players for this sealed week compared to the ones in the past - there is like 51 players in this sealed league.  Where as the last sealed league had 117.  Players aren't seeing the value in it, and would rather spend that $50 on cards for a collectors league.

Like, when King's block becomes available - without the product for sealed starting off your "my cards" collection, I just cannot see how I'd ever have enough cards for a constructed "my cards" league. 

Well, then it's even better for you, that you get to pay less for the league, as instead of spending the currency on joining the league (and keeping the cards) you can spend the currency buying boosters/singles you actually need at the moment, rather than being stuck with whatever the sealed league format was at the time.

[Nitsuj]

Here is a conversation I had with some others.  This is in a constructed "my cards" league.

shewski: hi gl!
sempol: hi
sempol: gl
sempol: lol, only I am playing deck without tons of rares so far
Nitsuj: i'm there with you sempol, but I'm not sure I'm going to sign up for this league based on what I'm seeing
shewski: I've been religiously taking FOTR packs w/ my wins, its definitely helped
Nitsuj: I've been taking TTT
shewski: ok there are my 2 paths
shewski: it really helps IMO if you played the fotr sealed cause you have those cards
shewski: I couldn't imagine doing this brand new
sempol: but, i didn't
shewski: so you had to buy starters and the like? ouch
sempol: yep...
Me: @sempol - mention that to Marcin. I think he needs to adjust sealed leagues to let players keep their cards
shewski: he does I think
shewski: like I remember it takes awhile but one day I got a new card popup with tons of them
shewski: or did that change?
shewski plays Swordsman of the Northern Kingdom from hand
Me: @shewski - no, he changed the policy. you don't get to keep cards in sealed anymore. If you sign up for the sealed TTT league going on right now, the only cards you'll take out of it are in prize support
shewski: oh snap. that stinks.
shewski: you should have the option to play 50 to join
shewski: or 100 to join and keep your starter cards
shewski: or whatever
shewski: itd be worth it for starting players
Me: that's what i suggested over on the forums
Me: but he says the starting price would have to be $250 to keep your cards
Me: i think he is putting too much value on boosters
sempol: lol 250 :O ?
shewski: the math doesn't add up
Me: yeah, for the 3 starters and the 18 booster packs you get over the course of the league
shewski: they are 3 weeks right?
Me: 4 weeks
shewski: oh right the last week is just boosters
shewski: I guess 250 does make sense
Me: The thing is, that if you sign up for a sealed league, and pay $50, and then cannot find games because other players don't see the value in it, you threw away that $50
shewski: 180 + 30 + 30 + 30 = 270


------ Essentially, a player now who is just coming into Gemp is at a significant disadvantage in gathering cards compared to those of us who have been playing for a while.  Sealed leagues are now devalued, where only half the players that had previously signed up for sealed play now feel there is value in signing up for this league - yet the number of active players each week is still the same.  Lack of players signing up makes it much more difficult to find the matches you need to win the prizes you need to get back your $50.  Prizes that are random booster packs or common foils.  Essentially, to get back the $50 you spent, you have to win 10 games over the 3 to 4 week period.  Assuming you are a good player, you're looking at probably playing 13 to 15 games to get that, just because of the luck in sealed play and what you pull.  This will be prizes that are just random booster packs which may or may not provide you with good cards.

I understand that there is a value in the cards - but I feel really stuck right now to find a league I like, and there are 3 of them going!  I was really looking forward to "My Card" leagues, but now I'm despaired that I'll never get the cards I need to catch up to the other players who have been taking "free" FOTR boosters as prize support from the other leagues you have ran to date.

The next "my cards" league will likely be TTT based, and that will be great for me because I've been taking TTT as my prize support - but I think the players that have been getting FoTR cards will be reluctant to sign up for a TTT league for the same reason I don't want to sign up for the FoTR My cards league - I know I don't have the cards I need to compete.

I sincerely appreciate the effort you have put into this, and don't mistake my criticism as being judgmental of your site.  I just want to communicate to you that I fear that sealed play has really no value any more, and I'm extremely reluctant to sign up for it.  I know this is a real tricky balance for you, you don't want the "my cards" leagues to become the same as "all cards" leagues - but I think you went to far one way.

[hsiale]

In my prize support I've been taking FotR most of the time and Mount Doom recently. In total I had 19 TTT block booster packs (18 from sealed league and 1 taken due to a misclick). Today I used cash I had (due to selling FotR block cards, as prizes for those went over the roof due to everyone trying to build a deck for the league) and I started to buy useful rares from sets 4-7. Those were cheap (cheaper even than I expected, most TTT block rares were sold more often than bought, even quite powerful ones). I have now nearly everything from those sets I could need. I was paying on average 6-7 gold per card. Things I bought today (amongst many others):
- 4x Easterling Captain and 4x Easterling Army,
- 3x Morgul Brute, 3x Cantea FTW, 3x Lemenya Assailing Minion
- 3x Hides, 2x Constantly Threatening, 2x Wulf, 2x Ready to Fall, No Retreat, Rabble-rouser,
- 3x Mauhur, 3x Ugluk,
- 3x Desert Lord,
- 4x Simbelmyne, Leowyn, Merry's Sword, Eowyn's Sword DB
- 2x Terrible and Evil, 3x Gandalf MoW
- Arwen FEM, 3x Alliance Reforged, Legolas DH,
- Derufin, 2x Noble Leaders, 2x Anduril Flame of the West.

A player joining today gets 200G. I think this is easily enough to buy a competitive deck in any chosen format, except FotR block.

[bradeier]

but formats not called fotr are basically terrible is the point.  two towers is absolutely atrocious, for example

[hsiale]

Two Towers has problems, King has probably even more. But formats the game was designed for (Towers Standard, Movie, War of the Ring Standard) are quite OK.

[tanzhamster]

Hsiale you can't compare yourself to other players, because you got so much more cards than 95% of all players because of your prices in the first tournaments.
I got only 8 rares in my FOTR-collectors-deck and I spend all my money to buy boosters for FOTR and chose 90% of my game-winning prices as FOTR-boosters. My other rares i got are worth around 1g each or i want to keep them. So even if i sell them all i wouldn't get any competetive deck for FOTR-collectors.
TTT-block is even worse.

Fact is I thought about playing FOTR-collectors until i saw what kind of decks are out there allready. Now i decided to not play it because i don't want to play a league with a deck i find not competitive and to have to pay for it.

Actually i don't know either how to change things to balance the situation some more but at the moment i'm just frustrated about it. I played all leagues and spend so much time for them until now even if I didn't like the formats or the decks I was playing. Now I have to find out that i'm still not competitive and thats pretty annoying.

[MarcinS]

Hsiale you can't compare yourself to other players, because you got so much more cards than 95% of all players because of your prices in the first tournaments.

hsiale is actually doing quite bad - played 4 games, won only 2. Which proves it's not really THAT much about cards, but about deck building with what you have and game play.

[hsiale]

Actually i don't know either how to change things to balance the situation some more

One simple thing: collector's leagues and tournaments should be announced well in advance (and I believe they soon will). So that people can prepare the decks.

I used my example as I don't have any other. True, I have more cards than most people*. But I think after yesterday most of my advantage comes from the fact, that I skipped most of the mad rush for FotR block cards (my collector's league deck is quite weak and I can't change it at all depending on opponent), sold cards at high prizes (Keeper of Isengard for 70G, Last Alliance for 60G, a few other for 30-40) and bought many powerful rares from later sets. And my point is that a new player can do the same - not in such amounts, but still 200G everyone gets for start is way more than enough to buy one competitive deck. And probably half of another one. You just should avoid format which is highly popular at the moment.

*On the other hand, the myth that first league prizes were completely over the top is more widespread every day, I once heard that I earned well over 100 boosters during that league, which is very far from truth. In fact, I think prizes from that league were more or less 30-40% higher than from the second FotR sealed league - I have good comparison as I won both of those.

hsiale is actually doing quite bad - played 4 games, won only 2. Which proves it's not really THAT much about cards, but about deck building with what you have and game play.

It can exactly proove that cards are quite important, because I don't have a lot of FotR block powerful cards - I decided to sell them when they are heavily overpriced. So my deck is far from optimal I will have optimal TTT or Movie Block decks (once FotR prizes go down and I buy back cards from sets 1-3 I need for them). I guess I still will not place very high, as I'm weaker at constructed play that at sealed deck

[bradeier]

i guess at this point it seems that there are so many leagues, on one hand it gives players more options, on the other it splits the events and they are all smaller, so finding games is harder.

like for me, i got some lucky pulls and won some decent prizes for winning the fotr constructed league, so i was able to build a decent "my cards" fellowship deck for week 1.

but, i got atrocious pulls in my ttt sealed week 1, and lost like all my games.  my week 2 deck is a little better, but its only cause of cards in the starter deck.  admittedly there is some level of play skill involved, and i am not as good at ttt as others, but when every other person has like faramir, defend it and hope, and other good non rares and i got trash, it makes me not care as much about that.

then i also joined the towers constructed league, buit havent had time yet to work on a week 3 deck.


i like the options, but its frustrating a little when i spent all my gold for a fotr my card deck, and then a lot of people just wont join cause they cant compete.  i mean i will be in the same spot when it goes to a ttt my cards, i think the whole league will be hsaile, nitsuj and jake a, lol.

idk what the best way to fix things are