Seeking general advice

[jdizzy001]

Fellow TLHH'ers

As you may be aware I am a long time veteran of LOTR TCG. I started playing when Realm of the Elf Lords was released. I recently took a break to pursue LOTR minis by games workshop. You should check out the link at the bottom of my signature to see my work.  Anyways, after playing for years with my gaming group then playing on gccg and now on gemp and still finding my game lacking, I would like some general advice.

I've won some games and I've lost some games. Aside from general power house combinations (such as ninja gollum and the like) what general advice do players have for a grizzled veteran like myself?

[sgtdraino]

I've played the game since its inception, but I'm not sure I can tell you anything you don't already know. Try to build a deck with cards that compliment each other, that work well together. Don't just dabble in multiple different strategies, commit your deck to just a few. Practice with your deck against other decks you've built, using various opponent strategies you expect to encounter. See where your deck is strong, where it is weak, and change accordingly. Get a feel for how well your deck cycles and flows, very important for getting the stuff you need, when you need it. Try not to make your deck too dependent on going first. I tend not to bid more than 1-3 burdens. Double-moving to site 3 on your first turn is very important, and preventing your opponent from doing the same is a real advantage. For minion side, concentrate on making the opponent move more slowly, rather than killing his ring-bearer. The former is easier than the latter, because you're never going to have much control over how much twilight he puts out, or what type of fellowship he runs. While you're playing, do your best not to telegraph what strategies you are using. If he figures out what kind of deck you're using, and it's a common strategy, he'll be able to predict what you'll do, and use that to his advantage.

That's about all I can think of, for now.

[Not a Zombie]

My advice is to  have fun and try to find something new and crazy that no one has before. IMHO this keeps the game fresh and fun, even if I lose more often than win because of it (which I do )

[ununtrium]

I agree with both sgtdraino and Not a Zombie. While playing, keep sgtdraino's advice in mind. If you want to get a better understanding of how a well-constructed deck works, use for example a deck from the Worlds events 02-04.

Once you got more into the more intricate workings of a deck, go the "Not a Zombie"-route and try your own ideas. Play around.

[jdizzy001]

i've got a lot of the inner workings of deck making down. the TLHH vets made sure of that . my concern is that for someone who has played as long as i have i would expect a better win/loss ratio. i mean i do have well over 10+ years of lotrtcg experience, after such a run i would expect to be more of an imposing player yet everytime i sit down to play i feel like i was just schooled by someone who was born with lotr cards in their hand. perhaps this is just a unfulfilled longing

[Zurcamos]

I have never really played online.  I picture the same types of decks being played to death.  It sounds like there's too much of an emphasis on winning, which is sad.  Like "Not A Zombie," the most fun I have is coming up with goofy deck ideas and playing with people I enjoy being around.  Obviously, not everyone has that opportunity, and even if winning isn't the goal for you, losing can get tiresome if it happens too frequently (Nobody will see this, but man, did that need an edit).

As for application, there are three things you can do: 1. Get better, 2. Find a way to stop being bothered by win percentages, or 3. Give up the game.  If it helps, I would rather be the person others like playing with, rather than being "imposing" (goodness knows I am that person when it comes to video games with my friends).  So, I guess I am saying I prefer the second option, even if the first happened at some point too.

Also, I hope you don't go with number three.

[Shelobplayer]

I play from the release of FOTR, and after ten years (with some smaller and bigger breaks from the game) I was starting to get really bored of it, then I got this idea to play highlander (given that we also play MTG with my friends, and by far our favorite format is highlander there), and it has given me tonnes of new ideas, and a whole new game to discover (just as in MTG). I highly suggest this great format to any veteran, who is getting bored of the other ones. Another great thing about it, is that you can play the game at a cutthroat, maximally competitive level if you are playing online, without being accused that you are a copycat/boring opponent, or can set up a set of house rules to have fun with your friends (grrrr, no 9 ents start, I'd totally hate that)

I posted the first list I've made here (also the format rules, but u can find it in one of the sticky threads here):
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,6463.0.html

[sgtdraino]

my concern is that for someone who has played as long as i have i would expect a better win/loss ratio. i mean i do have well over 10+ years of lotrtcg experience, after such a run i would expect to be more of an imposing player yet everytime i sit down to play i feel like i was just schooled by someone who was born with lotr cards in their hand.

HOW do you lose? What tends to get you? You need to analyze more specifically where and what the weaknesses are.

[Panch]

WARGS

[jdizzy001]

Name it I've lost that way. corruption, RB death, moving too slow, moving too fast, choking, discard, lock-down, site control, condition discard, archery, skirmish, threats, initiative, etc, etc. Honestly, I think a lot of it just has to do with a desire to win and not play the game. I need to worry less about winning and more about playing the game for the games sake. There isn't just one way that I lose. I have been on the losing side of so many games I really cant pin down one specific reason. I can always identify the precise turn where things take a turn for the worst, but all things considered, I usually lose in the third region at around sites 6-8. On my better losing streaks I lose because the other guy beats me to site 9. This is statistically a lose, however, I usually consider it a minor victory because my fellowship is generally still intact. I do appreciate everyone's advice though

[Imrahil]

I've found from personal experience that in LOTR cards (as in life), everybody has a different capacity for improvement. It's always possible to keep improving at the game, but the speed and depth of the curve are really dictated by the person. You're probably at the point where you can build very good decks and play them competently in many formats, but that transition from "very good" to "great" may be beyond your ability...otherwise what would "great" really mean? :-)

Personally, I play LOTR intuitively, meaning that I often act on a hunch instead of trying to logically figure out what my opponent can do on any given turn. I may know what sites or cards he's probably packing, I may count how many Witch-King's he's played or how many pumps he's probably got left in his deck, but I'm not able to turn it into a science the way some of my fellow players do instinctively. What I'm trying to say here is that certainly people have the spark, the raw data-crunching ability to play this game at a level that I can achieve only for limited stretches at a time. They have win-loss ratios that reflect that ability.  They are the "great", while the rest of us are merely the "good". :-)

Obviously the game is still really fun, but some of us just have to resign ourselves to having to scrap hard for each win. Not everybody can have the capacity for LOTR brilliance.

That being said, a lot of playing LOTR is like gambling, and a lot of gambling is about knowing the odds. The better you can anticipate what your opponent is trying to do and how he's going to go about doing it, the better you will play.

[Ringbearer]

That being said, a lot of playing LOTR is like gambling, and a lot of gambling is about knowing the odds. The better you can anticipate what your opponent is trying to do and how he's going to go about doing it, the better you will play.

This I find very true. I am a player that always calculates odds and works from there. Its an ability I use in the mahjong tourneys that I play (no, not clicking 2 the same away; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahjong ) and I use it in LOTr as well. I count the number of key cards played, balance them against the number of cards in the deck, giving me a likelihood that you carry that Witch King. I am not syaing this is rocket science, but I know more players do this, do better or worse effect.

What also makes a difference is knowing the format. If you know what is possible, and have played quite the match you can predict 80-90% of the deck. Thats why I excel at fellowship block and suck at standard, cause I seldom play it.

[sgtdraino]

I'd boil all this down to something two-fold:

1. It sounds like you mostly lose by getting nailed by your opponent's shadow, less often by his freeps beating you to the end. So, the decisions you are making are mostly having your freeps double-move when they shouldn't have, and to a lesser degree are allowing your opponent's freeps to double-move when they either should have been intimidated to stop, or gotten destroyed on the double. Which leads to...

2. Predicting what your opponent can/will do. This goes to what the guys above me said: Look at what your opponent is playing, try to figure out what kind of deck you're up against, and play accordingly. What kind of minions has he played on you so far? What sorts of strategies does that deck use?

You say you think you've got deck-making down. In that case, I'd suggest copying a deck that has actually won championships, and play with that for a while. This removes your deck-building skills from the equation (you KNOW it's a good deck), and allows you to concentrate solely on your playing style, on your tactical decisions. If you suddenly start winning every game, maybe your deck building skills aren't as good as you thought. If you are still losing regularly, you know the issue really is something to do with the way you play, the decisions you make during the game.

I'd also ask: When the game is over, how many cards are left in your deck? Because if you're discarding, drawing, and playing properly, you should be just about out of cards by the end of the game. Not completely out, but I'd say 85-90% out. If you've got more cards left than that, your decks may be too big, or you may not be playing cards/discarding fast enough.

The people you regularly play against can have a big impact too. Different groups tend towards different favorite strategies. A deck that I might regularly beat my friends with, might utterly fail when I play it against a group of strangers. Because I'm not used to the way they play, or the strategies they prefer, my playing may not be as effective.

[jdizzy001]

Thats some great advice. I do have a winning deck that i play, a movie ninja gollum deck and it has a good win ratio. As for cards, that is something i also pay close attention to. Normally, yes, i burn up a deck in a game. That is actually one of the gauges i use to determine a decks effectiveness (how many cards i burn up in a game)

the different groups Comment definantly makes a difference. I come from a group that NEVER plays condition discarding cards and thusly never packs more than 2 copies of a conditon. Once i stated playing online i learned the errors of my ways .

I think a lot of it has to do with what imrahil said, i just dont want to devote the time i should to truely become one of the greats. The game is a blast and with the help of gemp and gccg and my physical collection i can keep playing, but i dont want to be one of those guys who ONLY plays online card games.

Nevertheless, any advice is accepted and appreciated. If nothing else someone else will stumble onto this thread and learn something about themselves.

I'll keep playing and trying for the win, but until i want to be one of "those guys" i'll have to settle for being "good" instead of "great"

[sgtdraino]

I just started playing in Gemp yesterday, Jdizzy, and in spite of my "great advice," I am very much in the same boat as you. I think I've played at least 7 games so far, and have lost every single one of them! Mostly because many players are using newer cards that I'm just not very familiar with, because I stopped collecting at Hunters, and the new minion cultures (Orcs, Uruk-hai, and "skull" men) never excited me much, so I didn't use them much, and consequently never looked very hard at what they can do.