Author Topic: Deck building challenge (Read 24149 times)

neopium · « **on:** February 17, 2013, 12:24:30 AM »

Hi everyone,

I have a challenge for you guys.

Do you have ideas to build a competitive deck based on either Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled or Smeagol, Bearer of Great Secrets.

I don't say the deck has to win tournaments, but it should not be ridiculous

With Bilbo (solo?), Consorting with wizards comes to mind, some sort of choke with a pumped up Bilbo that cannot be overwelm unless a minion is 24 or something. But as it gives very few twilight, such a minion would be very hard to play... Of course, you have to find an effective way to get rid of the burdens...

For Smeagol, his capacity to discard minions in the regroup phase is interesting, but I never saw it working properly...

Ringbearer · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2013, 03:55:26 AM »

movie solo smeagol isengard men

Ring-bearer: Smeagol, Bearer of Great Secrets
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Adventure deck:
Isengard Ruined
King's Tent
Beacon of Minas Tirith
Osgiliath Fallen
Pelennor Flat
Minas Tirith First Circle
Ruined Capitol
Watchers of Cirith Ungol
Haunted Pass

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Faramir, Son of Denethor
1x Pippin, Hobbit of Some Intelligence
2x Faramir's Bow
2x Gondorian Sword
4x Clever Hobbits
4x Nasty
4x Not Listening
4x Still Far Ahead
4x Power According to His Stature
2x Don't Look at Them
4x Never
4x Poor Wretch

Shadow Draw Deck:
2x Agents of Orthanc
1x Grima, Chief Counselor
3x Grima, Wormtongue
4x Rohirrim Traitor
4x Saruman, Black Traitor
4x Unferth, Grima's Bodyguard
2x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
2x Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device
4x Men Will Fall
2x Banished
4x Desertion
4x Twisted Tales

Here's my Solo smeagol I use on Gemp. Shadow is just a fun thing, its not working that well but I didnt have time to cook up another one.

neopium · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:16:02 AM »

Thanks, nice

neopium · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:18:42 AM »

Saruman's power is very deadly I guess...

neopium · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:24:07 AM »

Have you ever thought of using Don't follow the lights?

Ringbearer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:40:27 AM »

No. Its more effective to use the gametext of Smeagol. Also Power is deadly, but uruks in movie just roll over dead, they lose to almost everything.

neopium · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2013, 04:54:45 AM »

Great, thanks for sharing your deck

Anyone with Bilbo?

Kralik · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2013, 10:32:53 PM »

I saw an amazing Bilbo deck some time ago on GCCG... it made extensive use of Hobbit Allies/Conditions and this event that gives you +1 strength for every

card in play. Don't recall what it was though... maybe someone should make it.

Cw0rk · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2013, 12:04:13 AM »

Quote from: Kralik on February 17, 2013, 10:32:53 PM

I saw an amazing Bilbo deck some time ago on GCCG... it made extensive use of Hobbit Allies/Conditions and this event that gives you +1 strength for every card in play. Don't recall what it was though... maybe someone should make it.

So Fair, So Desperate and Chance Observation?

Kralik · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:24:21 AM »

Ah, the card was Chance Observation, but So Fair, So Desperate is similar. With the right support (Everyone Knows) it was a fun deck to see.

neopium · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:35:17 AM »

Interesting...

However So fair, so desperate and everyone knows require unbound hobbits, how could they work with Bilbo ring bearer?

Kralik · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:40:04 AM »

Chance Observation was being used with Bilbo; the rest of the deck used Hobbits companions and allies. There were enough of them that Chance Observation was quite potent (maybe Str+8 or more?)

Zurcamos · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:52:03 AM »

Okay, a "solo" deck with 3 companions isn't any more solo than a deck with 9. Simply calling it one doesn't make it one. I take it the following is the closest thing to a working actual Solo Smeagol, but it can't survive (I've played a similar one, and it didn't go so well for me)?

Smeagol, Bearer of Great Secrets
The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

4x Clever Hobbits
4x Nasty
4x Not Listening
4x Still Far Ahead
4x Power According to His Stature
2x Don't Look at Them
4x Never
4x Poor Wretch

neopium · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2013, 12:10:36 PM »

I didn't necessary ask for a "Solo" deck, but for a deck centered around Bilbo or Smeagol as ring bearers.

I just went through all

cards in the movie block, and what I think could be interesting cards for a real Bilbo Solo deck are:

Allies:
Bounder
Hobbit Party Guest

In addition to their special abilities that are very useful, these allies add Hobbits to spot for Chance Observation and you can use them with A Marvel to pump Bilbo. They are not unique, thus you can play up to 4 each.

I also thought about Goldberry, River-daughter and Tom Bombadil, The Master but they are really too expensive for such a deck, unless you have cards to remove twilight, like the Gaffer's pipe with other pipes/pipeweeds. Pipeweeds are great because they are possessions, much harder to discard than conditions, but they take a lot of room.

Possessions:
Brace of Coneys (to remove the burdens added each turn)
Hobbit Sword
Orc Armor

Conditions:
O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
The Tale of the Great Ring
Consorting With Wizards
Stone Trolls
Cliffs of Emyn Muil

Events:
Chance Observation
Halfling Deftness
Hobbit Appetite
Power According to His Stature

Clearly, this lacks a lot of burden removal... And maybe recycling of essential cards like A Marvel or Chance Observation. Birthday present? Adds even more burdens.

You would also need to draw as quickly as possible Consorting with Wizards to make Bilbo invincible...
For that, there is also the possibility to "cheat", play Gandalf, Leader of men and Sam, SOH in the starting fellowship and fetch those cards with saved from the fire... But this adds even more cards to choose from...

Ideas?

Zurcamos · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2013, 01:31:14 PM »

Quote from: neopium on February 18, 2013, 12:10:36 PM

I didn't necessary ask for a "Solo" deck, but for a deck centered around Bilbo or Smeagol as ring bearers.

...And I didn't say you did either; I just perked up when I saw "Solo Smeagol" brought up. My best BoGS deck is definitely my Ringbound Rangers one, though the Smeagol + 2x DLaT in mine can easily be switched out for Frodo + 2x BotEL/Hobbit Sword (and made into a Towers Standard deck, if desired) without major repercussions, so I wouldn't say it's centered around him.

I love the Lone Bilbo ideas! I haven't tried one yet myself. I have BoTB as Ringbearer in a Hobbit and DotW deck that is fun and competitive in my Meta (I play mostly in paper). Exerting Bilbo bearing CwW or Tom Bombadil for NFFatRoD is pretty fun.

Gerontius · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2013, 05:39:14 PM »

Tales and Wraiths/Roaming Orcs

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Adventure deck:
Steps of Edoras
West Road
Hall of the Kings
Osgiliath Fallen
City Gates
Minas Tirith Sixth Circle
Pelennor Grassland
Morgul Vale
Dagorlad

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Aragorn, Driven by Need (starting)
2x Cursed of Erech
2x King of the Dead, Oathbreaker
2x Oathbreaker
2x Sleepless Dead
2x Sam, Son of Hamfast
3x Red Book of Westmarch
4x Banner of the White Tree
3x Might of Numenor
4x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom
3x Swept Away
2x Consorting With Wizards
2x The Tale of the Great Ring

Shadow Draw Deck:
3x Advance Captain
4x Advance Marauder
4x Advance Regular
4x Advance Scout
4x Orc Ambusher
3x Orc Assassin
2x Hate
2x Flames Within
4x Orc Banner
2x Sauron's Hatred

This is my most used deck on GEMP, I've had a decent record with it. Basically it's designed to filter through freeps cards using Red Book of Westmarch (there's 18 Tales in the free peoples side, all of which could be played during maneuver/skirmish/regroup). Most of this deck's wins are shadow kills, so maybe it's not quite what you're looking for, but it's fun to play regardless and it's definitely the best Bilbo based deck I've ever built.

I wonder, would it be possible to build a decent Frodo-Bilbo-Sam-Smeagol deck in movieblock, using Bilbo as a side companion?

Zurcamos · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2013, 06:57:44 PM »

Quote from: Gerontius on February 18, 2013, 05:39:14 PM

This is my most used deck on GEMP, I've had a decent record with it.

I've lost to this deck. Sup, Gerontius?

Quote from: Gerontius on February 18, 2013, 05:39:14 PM

I wonder, would it be possible to build a decent Frodo-Bilbo-Sam-Smeagol deck in movieblock, using Bilbo as a side companion?

I have one, but it's mostly for the novelty. While some say BoTB is the worst Ringbearer, he's WAY worse as a non-Ringbearer - probably the worst non-Ringbearer companion in Movie Block. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong though (no sarcasm). I put in every conceivable card to make the other hobbits massive. He usually ends up being a speedbump, but if not, he makes an already giant GEW slightly bigger.

neopium · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:21:13 PM »

I have made a couple tests on Gemp with the following deck:

Bilbo solo

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Adventure deck:
Sleeping Quarters
King's Tent
Beacon of Minas Tirith
Pelennor Plain
City Gates
Minas Tirith First Circle
Ruined Capitol
Northern Ithilien
Dagorlad

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
3x Bounder
4x Hobbit Party Guest
3x Hobbit Sword
4x Chance Observation
4x Halfling Deftness
3x Hobbit Appetite
4x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom
2x Power According to His Stature
4x Consorting With Wizards
2x O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
2x The Tale of the Great Ring

Shadow Draw Deck:
1x Gollum, Stinker
4x Mordor Guard
2x Mordor Trooper
4x Mordor Veteran
4x Orc Officer
2x Orc Patrol
2x Orc Slaughterer
1x Grond, Hammer of the Underworld
1x Ithil Stone
4x Captured by the Ring
1x Dead Marshes
4x Fires Raged Unchecked
1x Flames Within
4x Orc Banner

For the shadow side, I just copy/pasted another one that had shown to be efficient enough to prevent too much double moves from my opponents.

1 victory (with a shadow win and dumb errors from the opponent whose girlfriend entered the room, he was not focused anymore) http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=neopium$4g1yketns0h0zenb

1 defeat (very bad hand compared to previous game) http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=neopium$8qcmntjx2d1m8rxs

Obviously, 4x PATHS might have saved me in the game against Dunland.

My first conclusions are:
- I tried in the first game with Tom Bombadil, The Master. He is nice because he removes burdens. But he is expensive and requires to spot two

companions to use his special ability... too bad
- Bilbo adds way too much burdens or twilight
- If you choose to add burdens instead of twilight, the choke is very efficient at the first sites
- Killing minions is very hard, making double moves risky
- It needs more play testing, but I feel I will need more cycling of the most essential pumps / anti-overwhelm cards
- Bounder is not a site 1 ally and cannot be healed by Hobbit party guest! It's obvious but I didn't remember it... I might need 4x Bounder

Any suggestions?

Zurcamos · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2013, 06:39:51 PM »

I just played twice using the following build (with Dunland swarm):

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

4x Bounder
3x Hobbit Sword
4x Chance Observation
4x Halfling Deftness
4x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom
4x Power According to His Stature
1x Cliffs of Emyn Muil
4x Consorting With Wizards
2x O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!

While I won both games, I drew three copies of Chance Observation before site 5 both times, having to discard two of them because they were worthless (but it's spectacular even with a couple copies of Bounder out). The burden adding is definitely rough. I was only able to spot 3 twilight ONCE out of all the times I moved. So, I shrunk the twilight to zero, but added a bazillion burdens. I now see why you only had 2x PAtHS. I don't think Bilbo can make it to site 9 with either of our builds. Now, if the decks win regardless, I guess it doesn't matter, but I'd like to explore some more.

neopium · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2013, 05:03:22 AM »

I won!

I played two additional games:

- I lost the first one VS 4 minions including Castamir of Umbar at his maximum, only because of Discovered that discarded my Consorting with Wizards:
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=neopium$0fvuyc8ypxizsz2n

- I outran my opponent in the second one and made it to site 9!
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=neopium$ecfouwg2voly01q3

Here is the deck I used:

Bilbo solo

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Adventure deck:
Sleeping Quarters
King's Tent
Beacon of Minas Tirith
Pelennor Plain
City Gates
Minas Tirith First Circle
Ruined Capitol
Northern Ithilien
Dagorlad

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
4x Bounder
1x Filibert Bolger, Wily Rascal
3x Hobbit Party Guest
1x Master Proudfoot, Distant Relative of Bilbo
3x Hobbit Sword
4x Chance Observation
2x Hobbit Appetite
4x Hobbit Intuition
4x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom
4x Consorting With Wizards
2x O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
2x The Tale of the Great Ring
1x There and Back Again

Zurcamos · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2013, 07:01:38 AM »

Quote from: neopium on February 19, 2013, 02:21:13 PM

I tried in the first game with Tom Bombadil, The Master. He is nice because he removes burdens. But he is expensive and requires to spot two companions to use his special ability... too bad

FYI, between this and you using Filibert Bolger, Wily Rascal in your current build, it seems like you think you can cancel Ringbearer skirmishes in Movie Block, which you can't. Switch the latter out for another ally, I'd say.

neopium · « **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2013, 07:25:41 AM »

Oops, forgot about that... Even fierce skirmish? Too bad... I will indeed switch him, maybe for a fourth Hobbit party guest.

With all those hobbits out, Chance Observation is very impressive!

I just try to keep them in hand for sites 8 and 9, but this means it clogs your hand quickly if you draw them early...

As for the shadow, your idea of

swarm is certainly better than my

minions with this deck: you have to cycle as much as you can to draw the cards that make Bilbo survive next sites and double move.

Zurcamos · « **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2013, 10:27:46 AM »

This was not planned:

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Zurcamos$2h41b077f3rkj470

neopium · « **Reply #23 on:** February 20, 2013, 10:48:29 AM »

Amazing! Solo Bilbo vs Solo Smeagol
I really like this solo bilbo deck... The way you can resist Sauron is just impressive.

neopium · « **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2013, 11:56:18 AM »

BTW, what is the final deck list that you use? Still using PATHS? What do you think about Hobbit intuition vs Halfling Deftness (one more twilight, but no exertion). I think it's better because you don't have heal power...

Zurcamos · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2013, 04:30:37 PM »

Quote from: neopium on February 20, 2013, 11:56:18 AM

BTW, what is the final deck list that you use? Still using PATHS? What do you think about Hobbit intuition vs Halfling Deftness (one more twilight, but no exertion). I think it's better because you don't have heal power...

I do feel like PAtHS is pretty lousy in this deck. I've been using Halfling Deftness, though Hobbit Intuition very easily could be better. Archery and Corruption decks would be serious problems for my build. Here's the list:

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
4x Bounder
3x Hobbit Party Guest
1x Master Proudfoot, Distant Relative of Bilbo
3x Hobbit Sword
4x Chance Observation
4x Halfling Deftness
4x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom
4x Consorting With Wizards
2x O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
1x There and Back Again

I'm not sure it's the best it could be, but I've had fun with it and won a few games in the process.

neopium · « **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2013, 01:29:02 AM »

Archery and corruption are indeed a problem but I don't think we can do much about it...

Here is my current version:

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
4x Bounder
4x Hobbit Party Guest
1x Master Proudfoot, Distant Relative of Bilbo
3x Hobbit Sword
4x Chance Observation
2x Halfling Deftness
4x Hobbit Intuition
4x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom
4x Consorting With Wizards
2x O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
2x The Tale of the Great Ring
1x There and Back Again

I removed Filibert Bolger, Wily Rascal as well as Hobbit Appetite (almost never used it and when I did it was not critical).

It gave me some room (I have 35 cards VS 30 in your build) for a 4th Bounder and 2x Halfling Deftness which gives me even more pumps (Chance Observation gives +10 strength when all allies are out).

I wish I could have some more permanent pumps, but there are very few for Bilbo. I also prefer using possessions rather than conditions that are easily discarded. Saruman's power is almost deadly for "Solo" Smeagol (cheater version as well as pure solo), while solo Bilbo can survive it easily thanks to the allies and events. The drawback of events is that they clog your hand...

neopium · « **Reply #27 on:** March 27, 2013, 03:42:58 PM »

Hi again,

Here is some feedback on solo Bilbo after a few weeks of tests.

I have a victory rate of 30% with 9 wins and 21 losses.

Of course these stats are not amazing, because the deck still depends a lot on drawing the good cards at the right time... and I'm not a very lucky guy

It has several other weaknesses:
- corruption decks (which is very frequent on Gemp these days)
- it is helpless against archery (can't do anything about it I think)
- it lacks condition removal (Goblin swarms is a killer as you rarely win skirmishes)
- fierce minions are much harder to deal with (There and Back again is great in this context, maybe I should add another one)

So I'm trying to find ways to improve it and I need your ideas

First, I have exchanged 2x Halfling Deftness with 2x PATHS. It does not help against corruption, but can save you sometimes (is it enough against Goblin swarms? I was not lucky enough to draw them before getting swarmed...)

Then I remove 2x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom and added Sam, Son of Hamfast in the starting fellowship and Melilot Brandybuck, Merry Dancer

This helps me to start first by bidding 2 (to win, I need to outrun my opponent, so starting can help). It also allows me to get rid of some burdens (even though Sam dies quickly, the idea is to have him until site 3). The addition of an extra hobbit with Melilot improves chances of having an efficient use of Chance Observation.

I was also thinking about Aragorn RotN that can be very useful in the last sites, but if he comes too early, it just clogs the hand... which is already clogged by Chance Observation I want to use as late as possible

Any suggestion?

NappyKorn · « **Reply #28 on:** March 28, 2013, 05:48:33 AM »

Have you considered maybe using Sam, SoH with say Make Haste? Just need to find a reliable way to get Make Haste back each turn. Not only would you get some burden removal by replaying a unwounded Sam, SoH each turn, but that would be a way to help avoid Bilbo's drawback text each turn and with Make haste it wouldn't be such a penalty cause they would either have to keep the twilight avialable to remove and discard a minion from play. I would suggest Birthday present but with all the other

events you wouldn't be able to reliable get Make Haste in hand each turn.

NK

neopium · « **Reply #29 on:** March 28, 2013, 06:46:52 AM »

Make haste is a nice suggestion, thanks

I like the idea, I have to try it to see if I can really discard minions with it.

For birthday present, I doubt it would be very efficient. I indeed have a lot of events, but I can remove PATHS that didn't prove to be that useful in this deck and Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom that is less interesting with Sam, SoH bouncing back regularly. I would still have three events:
- Chance Observation, that I really want to recycle
- Hobbit Intuition (yeah, this one I don't want to recycle that much, it's useful early in the game though)
- Make haste

The problem is that to be sure to draw birthday present before it's too late, I would need at least 2 or 3 of them. And I don't know if I have the place for that.

Removing 2x PATHS, 1x Melilot Brandybuck, Merry Dancer and 2x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom gives me 5 slots available.

That's just enough for 1x birthday present and 4x Make haste (or 2x Birthday present and 3x Make haste). I don't know if this is enough.

Here is a tentative deck list:

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
4x Bounder
4x Hobbit Party Guest
1x Master Proudfoot, Distant Relative of Bilbo
3x Hobbit Sword
4x Chance Observation
4x Hobbit Intuition
4x Make Haste
1x Birthday Present
4x Consorting With Wizards
2x O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
2x The Tale of the Great Ring
1x There and Back Again

neopium · « **Reply #30 on:** March 28, 2013, 01:55:45 PM »

Very interesting...

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=neopium$xwq2z0pvfbmqs6gv

(There was a first game I lost against the same opponent: at site 7 I still had not drawn any Consorting with Wizards...)

Zurcamos · « **Reply #31 on:** March 28, 2013, 03:00:36 PM »

I picture Sam, SoH and Make Haste causing super hand clog. If everything goes according to plan, you are stuck w/ Sam in hand. If things go badly, he dies, and you are stuck trying to discard up to four copies of Make Haste while reconciling throughout the game. I feel you should almost always discard a shadow card while reconciling, because Lone _____ decks are so hard to win with.

I was going to say that if you are going to try out Sam, SoH, it could be fun to start Pippin, HoSI too, bid an extra burden, and you'd get the benefit from Sleeping Quarters. Then, I realized the site doesn't require 3 Hobbit COMPANIONS, just 3 Hobbits. And here I couldn't figure out why you use it! Cue the "Price is Right" fail horn...

neopium · « **Reply #32 on:** March 29, 2013, 02:25:33 AM »

Indeed, I already benefit from Sleeping Quarters very often.

Regarding your worry about hand clogging, you are right:

- this kind of "lone" ring-bearer deck clogs a lot, especially because it is based on events that you cannot reconcile

- the shadow side I chose (big minions to prevent double moves from my opponent) also clogs too much. Ideally, Moria swarm would be a better fit. But I find Moria swarm less funny to play (everyone has the same Moria swarm deck, more or less)

However, I tried this configuration 3 times and it was not really a problem. Agreed, 3 times is not enough and I will go on testing.

Agreed as well, I lost twice (once without drawing Consorting with wizards and once against Besiegers and Grond, Hammer of the Underworld, which is NPE anyway

), and when I won, it was against a shadow side that is particularly weak against this deck (max 1 or 2 minions at a time).

But I felt there was something better in my fellowship than in previous games. In particular, the way I play it has changed: before, when I had to choose between 2 burdens and 3 twilight, I chose the twilight option early in the game, the burdens later. It resulted in giving my opponent quite a lot of twilight and forced me to use cards like Chance Observation early in the game when I wanted to keep them for the end. With bouncing Sam, SoH, I can choke much more, especially between site 1 and 3.

Master Proudfoot, Distant Relative of Bilbo is also not needed anyway (I used him essentially to add enough twilight to prevent Bilbo special ability to be triggered) and it can be replaced by an additionnal Birthday present or another Home 1

ally, like Rosie Cotton, Hobbiton Lass or the Gaffer (to benefit from Hobbit Party Guest ability that I clearly don't use anymore in this news configuration).

Regarding Sam's death, the idea is that Sam should not participate in skirmishes (or he can be save with Hobbit Intuition or Chance Observation for instance).

I will keep testing and see if the win ratio increases or not.

But what I liked about Make Haste is the possibility to get rid of minions. Because with this deck, I seldom win skirmishes and it can be tough to survive. Now that I have a second

companion, I can also explore the possibility to use Narrow Escape to the same end.

Thanks for your feedback, it's nice to see that this deck rises other player's interest

NappyKorn · « **Reply #33 on:** March 29, 2013, 04:08:57 AM »

I actually ran a deck with this Sam/Make Haste engine before/ I believe it involved running frodo alone at some point, but I honestly can't remember. I ran 4x A promise just in case they were able to remove 2 and they both had to fight. It's a free condition so wont clog your hand and it has it benefits late game when the twilight pool has more twilight just by moving. I would also assume it could have the same benefits in a solo smeagol deck that way if you used smeagols abilty in the regroup phase to remove minions and double you could replay sam to have an easy way to remove those burdens. Maybe you could start Gandalf with Merry or Pippin and run a saved from the fire thing early. Burn Pippin, HoSI to grab Sam, SoH, Birthday Present and a solo Copy of Make Hate (since you could recycle the solo copy. Just because you grab it all at site 1 doesnt mean you have to flood the pool early. Then again that could lead to an easy double for your opponent from 1-3 if you have all that sitting in your hand until your 2nd turn.

NK

neopium · « **Reply #34 on:** March 29, 2013, 04:47:26 AM »

A promise would be interesting, but I don't have Frodo

neopium · « **Reply #35 on:** March 29, 2013, 05:45:45 AM »

Here is another interesting win: http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=neopium$yrs13ai9byhl6b9p

It was not a pure corruption deck, but still, I had no problem dealing with it. (Still lost the previous one against Moria swarm...)

The combo bouncing Sam, SoH + Rosie Cotton, Hobbiton Lass + Hobbit Party Guest is very impressive! I removed 5 burdens at site 6 and 5 more burdens at site 8 (+others earlier, but not as many at a time)

On the other hand, my shadow completely sucked

Zurcamos · « **Reply #36 on:** July 21, 2013, 10:41:54 AM »

Wahoo, I'm bumping all your old threads, neopium. I've been playing this one as often as I can. It definitely seems like the one with Sam does a lot better. Any new thoughts?

neopium · « **Reply #37 on:** July 21, 2013, 11:35:17 AM »

Hi, great to hear this deck pleases you!

Here is my most recent build:

Bilbo solo

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Adventure deck:
Sleeping Quarters
King's Tent
Hall of the Kings
Osgiliath Fallen
City Gates
Minas Tirith First Circle
Ruined Capitol
Morgul Vale
Dagorlad

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
4x Bounder
4x Hobbit Party Guest
1x Rosie Cotton, Hobbiton Lass
1x The Gaffer, Sam's Father
3x Hobbit Sword
4x Chance Observation
4x Hobbit Intuition
3x Make Haste
1x Birthday Present
4x Consorting With Wizards
2x O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
2x The Tale of the Great Ring
1x There and Back Again

Shadow Draw Deck:
2x Shelob, Eater of Light
2x Shelob, Last Child of Ungoliant
2x Orc Chaser
2x Orc Inquisitor
3x Orc Pursuer(2)
2x Orc Slaughterer
4x Orc Stalker
4x Troll of Cirith Gorgor
4x Web
2x Hides
4x Besieging Pike
4x Tower of Barad-dur

"Your stats" are currently down on Gemp, so I can't tell you how well it works and I did not play in in the last few weeks either.

From what I remember, I had something like 30 to 40% win.
The shadow side almost never works as I wish it would but it can sometime prevent my opponent from double moving, which is the idea here: outrun them with Bilbo.

The deck still has weaknesses but I'm not sure I can do much better. It also very much depends on your opponent shadow:

100% Deadly:
- Archery. Bouncing Sam can help taking so wounds, but it sure is not enough, and I have no means to heal Bilbo
- Swarm, and especially Goblin swarms and Corsairs. With Moria, my biggest problem is that I don't win skirmishes (at least early in the game), so the minions pile up and quite quickly I cannot handle them. The limited twilight does not help me against both shadows and I almost never won against them.

Very difficult: big fierce minions. You only have a few shots to prevent an overwhelm, against fierce minions, it is very hard and you quickly exhaust all your Bounder...

I could add a few extra events (PATHS or healing cards), but it significantly reduces the efficiency of Birthday present. Having 3x Make haste is also necessary to draw them early in the game, but later on, you only need to draw Chance observation, so having 3x Make haste means 3 burdens to get your first Chance observation.

Last, you depend a lot on your draw. It seems I am not the lucky kind and often drew the first Consorting with Wizards after site 6. I could still survive to that point, but it is hard to outrun your opponent in that case.

If you have experimented other variants, feedbacks are welcome

Zurcamos · « **Reply #38 on:** July 21, 2013, 03:06:13 PM »

Wish I had more to offer than my previous posts. I feel like our playtesting hasn't left much room to do more, unless we somehow missed a combo/card.

Legion · « **Reply #39 on:** July 22, 2013, 03:52:34 PM »

Has anyone tried to use Bilbo, BotB with Wraiths in movie? Between CwW and Swept Away, none of your companions can be killed. I know Isildur is the most common ARB with Wraiths as he's stronger and his drawback for skirmishing actually pumps your companions, but I wonder if this could work? It should wreck archery, and Enquea, LoM is no real worry so you can run 9 companions so swarming won't be easy. Run a Sam, SoH to deny corruption, since it doesn't matter if he gets "Enquead"

Ringbearer · « **Reply #40 on:** July 22, 2013, 03:54:07 PM »

Well, the problem with that is that its an autoloss vs any form of Archery as BIlbo has to take the arrows.

Legion · « **Reply #41 on:** July 22, 2013, 04:42:11 PM »

No. With CwW nobody takes arrows, so you win every time

bibfortuna25 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 22, 2013, 04:58:15 PM »

Read CwW again. The only time Bilbo can take wounds is during the archery phase.

Legion · « **Reply #43 on:** July 22, 2013, 05:02:32 PM »

Oh yeah. My bad. I guess that won't work, then. Pity

Gerontius · « **Reply #44 on:** July 22, 2013, 05:41:29 PM »

Quote from: Legion on July 22, 2013, 05:02:32 PM

Oh yeah. My bad. I guess that won't work, then. Pity

Doesn't mean you can't try it...

Quote

Tales and Wraiths/Roaming Orcs

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Adventure deck:
Steps of Edoras
West Road
Hall of the Kings
Osgiliath Fallen
City Gates
Minas Tirith Sixth Circle
Pelennor Grassland
Morgul Vale
Dagorlad

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Aragorn, Driven by Need (starting)
2x Cursed of Erech
2x King of the Dead, Oathbreaker
2x Oathbreaker
2x Sleepless Dead
2x Sam, Son of Hamfast
3x Red Book of Westmarch
4x Banner of the White Tree
3x Might of Numenor
4x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom
3x Swept Away
2x Consorting With Wizards
2x The Tale of the Great Ring

Shadow Draw Deck:
3x Advance Captain
4x Advance Marauder
4x Advance Regular
4x Advance Scout
4x Orc Ambusher
3x Orc Assassin
2x Hate
2x Flames Within
4x Orc Banner
2x Sauron's Hatred

ToPaxyGourouni · « **Reply #45 on:** September 08, 2013, 03:21:01 PM »

Don't play solo ring bearer decks. They never work, they die in site 7/8 and they make your opponent very miserable, as all choke decks do. Not a good game experience at all.

Here is something rediculous for you

Bilbo Ring Bearer + Any kind of Elves + 1 hobbit (merry perhaps). Snow ring.
Red Book of Westmarch + The Council of Elrond + Elven tales (Hosts of the last alliance, Alliance Reforged etc) + Songs of thew blessed Realm + Shire Countryside.

Bilbo Ring bearer. Play Council of Elrond to fetch Red Book of Westmarch. Add any number of burdens to bring (or not) rings from your draw deck. Play X Songs of the blessed realm and Y shire countrysides. Play an elven tale.Draw a card, remove X burdens and heal X*Y companions.

Use companions that exert for effects (like Merry, friend to sam) or any kind of elves you like.

This deck can heal rediculous amount of wounds each turn, in the numbers of 10-16 wounds healer per turn. The drawback is that you can only heal in the fellowship phase, because that's when you can play elven tales.

Bring this thing into expanded, discard your Hosts of the Last alliance to prevent wounds and bring them back with Gil Galad and watch the rediculous magic happen.

Zurcamos · « **Reply #46 on:** November 02, 2013, 03:00:44 PM »

Quote from: ToPaxyGourouni on September 08, 2013, 03:21:01 PM

Don't play solo ring bearer decks. They never work, they die in site 7/8 and they make your opponent very miserable, as all choke decks do. Not a good game experience at all.

Your first part is completely untrue. My solo Fellowships do fine, even on Gemp. Your second part is an opinion. Most people enjoy playing against a variety of decks (something you typically DON'T get on Gemp). I get compliments all the time when I play my solo decks on there.

Also, the word you are going for is "ridiculous."

Legion · « **Reply #47 on:** November 02, 2013, 05:57:53 PM »

Quote from: ToPaxyGourouni on September 08, 2013, 03:21:01 PM

This deck can heal rediculous amount of wounds each turn, in the numbers of 10-16 wounds healer per turn. The drawback is that you can only heal in the fellowship phase, because that's when you can play elven tales.

I've seen a fun deck in FotR that used Voice of Nimrodel to cancel a skirmish (at a river) and heal his whole fellowship. Works nicely with Merry, Friend to Sam and Boromir, Son of Denethor.

Shelobplayer · « **Reply #48 on:** November 03, 2013, 03:41:18 AM »

I used to play this Bilbo deck on GCCG a lot: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,6557.0.html

Ring-bearer: Bilbo, Bearer of things Burgled + The Binding Ring

Starting Fellowship:
Smeagol, Slinker
Sam, Son of Hamfast
Pippin, Friend to Frodo
Merry, Friend to Sam

3 x Gandalf, Manager of Wizards
3 x A Wizard is Never Late
1 x Radagast, the Brown
4 x Saved From the Fire
1 x Narya
2 x Brooding on Tomorrow
1 x Consorting With Wizards
1 x Red Book of Westmarch
4 x The Shire Countryside
2 x A Light in His Mind
2 x Birthday Present
4 x Nine-Fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom
1 x The Tale of the Great Ring
1 x There and Back Again
3 x Hobbit Sword
2 x Escape

I had a lot of fun (and pretty decent win ratio) with it. It is basically an initiative deck abusing Gandalf, MoW and Red Book of Westmarch with nffatrod to lose/regain initiative multiple times in skirmish. When I managed to get to site 6 without taking heavy losses on the way, I was usually able to do 6-9 runs with Radagast.

The main weakness of the deck is early beatdown (if Merry dies, you are in bad shape), and Saruman's Power (although if you can keep Pippin alive you have some protection).

If you don't get SFT + Gandalf in your opening hand you are usually better off mulliganing to 6.

It also requires a shadow side that cycles well early, Fell Beast or Under Foot corsairs are comming to mind first.

I guess a version without SFTF could work too...