LotR TCG Wiki → Card Sets:  All 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 → Forums:  TLHH CC

Author Topic: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable  (Read 9329 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

September 25, 2008, 02:23:46 PM
Read 9329 times

Celebrimbor

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Knight
  • Posts: 1022
Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« on: September 25, 2008, 02:23:46 PM »
SOP's signature has got me thinking.  Funny thing is, some of the hardest are those regarding God.  I have some others:

Can God change His mind?
Does God love things because they are good, or are they good because God says they are?
How do numbers less than 0 exist?
How is it possible two truths or groups of truths almost blatantly contradict each other?
I know I trully exist...but How to I know that?
How exactly do any two bodies with no physical relation to one another exert on each other have a gravitational pull?
If I say to someone, "You're a liar," and he replies, "very true" does that really turn my argument upside down?  :suspect:
What is 2+2?

That's enough for now.  Can anyone else come up with others?  Then, maybe we can reationalize these one by one and figure out all the world's problems.  :twisted:
Me: This isn't the quote you're looking for.
You: This isn't the quote we're looking for.
Me: I can go about my business.
You: You can go about your business.
Me: Move along.
You: Move along... move along.

September 25, 2008, 02:44:37 PM
Reply #1

Yanko Markovic

  • ****
  • Information Offline
  • Bowman
  • Posts: 448
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 02:44:37 PM »
what is justice? a) when everybody gets what they deserve? b) or when everybody gets the same? (and if the ansewr is a, how can God be just, if he is merciful?)
"To ask if Orcs "are" Communists is to me as sensible as asking if Communists are Orcs." - JRR Tolkien, regarding his "allegory".

September 25, 2008, 02:52:53 PM
Reply #2

TheJord

  • League Director
  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2294
  • High King of Rules
    • GamesCobra
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 02:52:53 PM »
Ahem

1) If you believe God to be omiscient, and being all knowing of things past, present and future, one would conclude that he has no need to change his mind. His focus would not require change as it would always be working towards a purpose He has had forever.

2) Part 1 of this I find confusing, as most Christians would consider God loving of all things, not just those we perceive to be good. The reality to Christians is God has set rules (commandments in Biblical speak) that dictate what makes you 'good'. The line is not so clear cut as to describe in this post, but following the rules God sets makes you 'good'. He doesnt change the rules arbitrarily, although they will update with changes in the plan He has set (this is in case anyone decides to mention the fact that Christians dont live the Mosaic Law of sacrifice, because Christians believe the need to follow this ended with Christ' sacrifice).

3) Numbers less than zero only exist in certain circumstances.
Example - I have 3 brothers. If you have 2 or less brothers, your amount of brothers represent a less than null amount, which is concept I still attempt to work out.
When it comes to numbers think of this - x2+1 = 0

4) I need an example :mrgreen:

5) If you can ask the question, then you may have answered it

6) Read Principia Mathematica... its painful

7) Truth is relative in each personal situation. Absolute truth is a different matter. To which are you referring?

8) The integer value of 2 in addition to an integer value of 2. Basic algebra says an integer value of 4.

I have no questions.
"The rule of Gondor is mine!"

September 25, 2008, 02:55:53 PM
Reply #3

TheJord

  • League Director
  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2294
  • High King of Rules
    • GamesCobra
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2008, 02:55:53 PM »
@ Gizlivadi

The example I was taught.

A man takes a loan from another. He signs a contract stating he will pay the loan back on a certain date. Sometime later, the time comes for him to pay. He cannot pay. He pleads for mercy, the creditor demands justice. Fulfilling both seems impossible.

What is the solution?

An advocate.

A third party intercedes, pays the debt, and requires an achievable debt from the original debtor.

Sound familiar? ;)
"The rule of Gondor is mine!"

September 25, 2008, 03:00:29 PM
Reply #4

Gate Troll

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 971
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2008, 03:00:29 PM »
what is justice? a) when everybody gets what they deserve? b) or when everybody gets the same? (and if the ansewr is a, how can God be just, if he is merciful?)

Gizlivadi, I'd have to say A, Justice is getting what we deserve. He is just and merciful. He does not show justice to all, but also shows mercy to his chosen elect.

September 25, 2008, 03:02:43 PM
Reply #5

TheJord

  • League Director
  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2294
  • High King of Rules
    • GamesCobra
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2008, 03:02:43 PM »
I have to disagree with Gate Troll. God cannot be a partial God, and grant one level of justice and mercy to one and then mete out a different amount to another. To do so would directly contradict what the Bible teaches about God.
"The rule of Gondor is mine!"

September 25, 2008, 03:06:04 PM
Reply #6

Gate Troll

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 971
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2008, 03:06:04 PM »
I have to disagree with Gate Troll. God cannot be a partial God, and grant one level of justice and mercy to one and then mete out a different amount to another. To do so would directly contradict what the Bible teaches about God.

How so? The Bible clearly states that Jesus doesn't intercede for all, otherwise everyone would go to heaven.

September 25, 2008, 03:15:03 PM
Reply #7

TheJord

  • League Director
  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2294
  • High King of Rules
    • GamesCobra
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2008, 03:15:03 PM »
He intercedes for all who follow his commandments (see my earlier answer 2)
"The rule of Gondor is mine!"

September 25, 2008, 03:38:42 PM
Reply #8

Elrohir

  • ****
  • Information Offline
  • Marksman
  • Posts: 575
  • If you want him, come and claim him!
    • Elrohir wants some cards
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2008, 03:38:42 PM »
You are too fast for me!  ;)
Each time, I am about to reply, this topic gains a new post!

1) No
2) God loves us all
3) -3 is mostly the same like -(+3), so you have a positive number! (But mathematic is tricky. Triangles have not always 180°!)
4) Depends on which is true (Triangles! Even Euklid was not ever right  :)) E.g: State theory vs Big Bang!
5) Cognito ergo sum! As long as you are able to doubt, you exist!
6) They have physical relation in an certain area called "gravitations field" - at least in german. If you have an force, there will alwasy be an antiforce. Its like two magnets - they have fields, no visible physical contact and they have an force on each other though.
7) If he is an liar, it doesn't mean that his statement was an lie!
8) Actually 4. A computer might think its 22. It depends on the system between you and your opponent.

About Justice:
Read: Mathäus, [MT 20, 1-16]
You gave away your life's grace. I cannot protect you anymore.

September 25, 2008, 03:53:17 PM
Reply #9

Gate Troll

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 971
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2008, 03:53:17 PM »
He intercedes for all who follow his commandments (see my earlier answer 2)
No, he intercedes for all those who put their trust in Jesus. Christianity is not a works-based religion.

September 25, 2008, 04:07:03 PM
Reply #10

TheJord

  • League Director
  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2294
  • High King of Rules
    • GamesCobra
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2008, 04:07:03 PM »
The Christianity I follow is. Faith without works is dead.
"The rule of Gondor is mine!"

September 25, 2008, 04:13:21 PM
Reply #11

turin08

  • Guest
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2008, 04:13:21 PM »
God has the same standards for everyone as he is perfectly just. All sin is punished the same. The important point here is that for Christians their punishment was taken by Jesus on the cross. Those who do not give their lives to christ are judged by how they have kept Gods moral law. Gate Troll is right in that Christianity is not a works based religion. Christianity is all about what Jesus did and not about what we do. In fact Jord your earlier point needs clarification. To what extent do people need to follow Gods laws before they can be clarified as good? Where's the line? In fact the Bible teaches that none of us are 'good' in and of ourselves because God's standard is a perfect one and we have all fallen short of it. As Christians we only become 'good' because we inherit Jesus's rightousness. I'm sorry Jord but if the Christianity you follow relies on works it is not Christianity at all. It is missing the point.

September 25, 2008, 04:24:03 PM
Reply #12

Gate Troll

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 971
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2008, 04:24:03 PM »
The Christianity I follow is. Faith without works is dead.
Yes, but works without faith is similarly dead. Look, TheJord, I'm not trying to condemn works, after all, the Bible says that faith is like a tree and works are like the fruit. Our works give evidence of our faith, a man who said he was a Christian but murdered, stole and committed fornication would obviously not be a Christian. Oh, and well put, turin08.

September 25, 2008, 04:35:37 PM
Reply #13

Elessar's Socks

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Knight
  • Posts: 1353
  • "I see...I look foul and feel foul. Is that it?"
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2008, 04:35:37 PM »
Squeezing these in:

How do numbers less than 0 exist?
I guess you could turn that around and say how do numbers greater than 0 exist? Numbers are abstract objects; you can point at the table and say "I see two plates," but it wouldn't make sense to say "I see a two." So if negative numbers (or hey, imaginary numbers) help whatever you're trying to do, well there you go.

Quote
How is it possible two truths or groups of truths almost blatantly contradict each other?
Doublethink FTW! Well, it's possible two truths may seemingly contradict but just describe two parts of a whole. Or maybe the two "truths" each have some truth in them and both can find a middle ground.

what is justice?
Check out The Republic by Plato. ;)

September 25, 2008, 04:40:07 PM
Reply #14

turin08

  • Guest
Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2008, 04:40:07 PM »
The Jord correct me if I am wrong but I believe that your last statement is reffering to the Book of James and what that has to say about faith and deeds. You have fallen into a trap which is sadly common among Christians when it comes to this scripture and that is that you take it to mean that James is saying that you need both faith and works to attain salvation. However this is horribly incorrect and is disproved by other passages in the bible which state clearly that all is needed is faith in Jesus, the most famous of these of course is John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". What James is saying here is something quite different. He is saying that faith without deeds is dead because if real true faith is present in a person deeds will naturally follow. He is saying that if someone proclaims that he has faith in Jesus but lives a totally immoral life then he does not actually have a real faith in jesus and is not saved. As christians it is our relationship with God and our faith in him which changes us into better people, this process is called sanctification. James 18 addresses this issue directly saying, But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."  Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.