Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable

[FingolfinFinwe]

turin you have explained that truth very well.

The true christian lives his/her life according to God's commandments as best they can, but this is not because they are trying to earn their way into heaven.  It is spured by knowing about Christ and what he did for us on the cross.  Christ has made us clean, and if we truly believe in Him and this perfect sacrifice, then we will willingly do our best to serve Him in our lives.

Its a rehash of sorts, but yeah. 

[Gil-Estel]

Ok, when it comes to God, I have to answer!

We are not good, the Bible makes it very clear. Christians are no better persons than those who are not christians. Christians only know that they are not good and that they rely only, and only on the work of Jesus. Matthew 5 says it. We have to have love for all around us, even for those who hate us, for only then we show our bond with God, for he is the #1 in loving his enemies.
When it comes to works, it is a must. But it is a must in a way that it makes perfectly sense. I must love my wife, I must show interest, I must take care for her, but I don't mind because I love her. If I had to do those things for someone I don't like, I wouldn't be to fond of those things I must do. Works make sense, not to work - loving those around you, caring for those around you, strengthen you and others in faith around- doesn't make sense at all! If I state to love my wife, but it doesn't show in my daily life.....well, you know. Practise what you preach!
When it comes to justice, it is hard to talk about it, because we have other moral standards as God. I think justice in biblical term is: when God's requirements are done. This means that when any person puts his trust in Jesus, he has the right to be freed of his sin! Faith is the answer. And faith has a lot of consequenses, 1 being the practising side of faith.....I could go on for hours, for this has my heart, but if there are questions: please let me know

[Pepin The Breve]

   I like to belive in evolution and natural selection (maybe because i´m a biologist?). I do belive in enthropy but i´m not for cientific determinism (too many variables to deal with). I respect every belief you may have (be religious or not), if you call your god Jesus, Alá, Geová, Echu, Geová, Zeus or if you have plenty of them (as some cited  are part of polytheist religions) as far as  you respect other belives. I think that science is a kind of religion too cause you have a lot of explanation for observable natural phenomena (although have some important diferences to most of religions).

   The question of if some god exist is a personal choice and for me it´s impossible to prove that it does or not. Having faith usually is good, seems to give us some hope in life.

  Well, the central fact is that everything is relative! Which answers most of the questions of this topic. I live in a country where, besides being declared "laico" (don´t know the word in english, means without official religion) are mostly catholic. I see good and bad things in this as i see good and bad things in my believes so, whn it comes about religion i say that i learned to respect other choices and try to make respect mine.

   I guess ES have a good point about the number thing...

[Gil-Estel]

And we agree on the proove of God, scientific there isn't any. Therefor it is called faith

[Gate Troll]

   I like to belive in evolution and natural selection (maybe because i´m a biologist?). I do belive in enthropy but i´m not for cientific determinism (too many variables to deal with). I respect every belief you may have (be religious or not), if you call your god Jesus, Alá, Geová, Echu, Geová, Zeus or if you have plenty of them (as some cited  are part of polytheist religions) as far as  you respect other belives. I think that science is a kind of religion too cause you have a lot of explanation for observable natural phenomena (although have some important diferences to most of religions).

   The question of if some god exist is a personal choice and for me it´s impossible to prove that it does or not. Having faith usually is good, seems to give us some hope in life.

  Well, the central fact is that everything is relative! Which answers most of the questions of this topic. I live in a country where, besides being declared "laico" (don´t know the word in english, means without official religion) are mostly catholic. I see good and bad things in this as i see good and bad things in my believes so, whn it comes about religion i say that i learned to respect other choices and try to make respect mine.

   I guess ES have a good point about the number thing...

  I hate the mindset that you pick out whatever god works for you and he is your 'pet' god. That is ridiculous. There is only one God and he says very clearly in his word "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but by me."   

[FM]

Ok, when it comes to God, I have to answer!

Wow, someone thinks highly of themselves!
Sorry, G-E, couldn't miss the joke!
Now, to get on topic, what can I say about the subject? I'm not a religious person, simply wasn't raised that way (my family is, though, mostly). That being said, I strongly believe tehre's a HUGE difference between religion and God. Just because I don't follow a specific doctrine, doesn't mean I'm an atheist either. ANd even though I'm a science guy all the way, I HAVE to make an exception, because I don't believe in coincidences (ok, some, but not a whole lot), so I believe everything, and I mean basically EVERYTHING, happens for a reason. And if it happens for a reason, something governs this reason, and THAT something, to me, is God.
I like to see, though, the differences between doctrines, for instance salvation through sheer faith and salvation through works, while following the "same" religion. Carry on, I'm really amused!

[SomeRandomDude]

I hate the mindset that you pick out whatever god works for you and he is your 'pet' god. That is ridiculous. There is only one God and he says very clearly in his word "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but by me."  

The thing is, everyone believes that. An atheist/agnostic/deist steps back and looks on everyone else like they're crazy, and treats God as a fairy tale that means nothing outside of making people feel good. If that is the case, then sure, why not pick your own personal God and go with that? The fact, GT, isn't that he's picking his own personal God, but that he just doesn't think there is one, or doesn't think its worth thinking about. Note that I do not agree with this, and I'm definitely a Christian, but I think the number one failure of Christians is in the absence of effective communication. Which leaves others looking on us as just another religious fringe group.

[FM]

Hey, that's not true. I'm a deist, and I just stated otherwise!

[Gil-Estel]

FM, how did you know I wanted to say the answers instead of to.... lol. But when something doesn't happen on coincidence, it doesn't mean that there is an other reason than natural laws. FM, is it that you think there is, so to say, a first mover? One who put the whole thing in motion?
And GT, I have to agree with NB here. Just because you believe that God is the only one, doesn't mean that is being proved. I agree with you, but to use that as an argument is kinda poor. It is said in the Bible, therefor it must be true. As a christian -imho- I think we have to be humble. The bible says - and when I 'm speaking to a christian I can use biblical prove- that faith isn't something we found ourselves, or is something we have picked, it is God's incredible mercy when we have faith. Ephesians chapter 1 tells us that.
So when we are granted with the gift of faith, we should be living in gratitude, telling others what happened to us. We can not expect that others believe the same as we, for it is not the natural way we chose. So if others ask us, we should ...."Always be ready to give an answer when someone asks you about your hope. 16 Give a kind and respectful answer and keep your conscience clear."..... (1 Peter 3:15)

[sickofpalantirs]

the question I have...is how can two intelligent, articulate people, who both know how to debate, and are both very reasonable, take opposite sides on an issue...

[SomeRandomDude]

Hey, that's not true. I'm a deist, and I just stated otherwise!

Was talking about Pepin. I know you're a deist.

[FM]

Yeah, I have to give it to God for the kick-off, and I believe in destiny (or a very close thing to it), so I also think there's at least a kind of... "force" that drives things around, steering the world in the right direction. Surely, sometimes it swerves a bit, but hey, even omnipotent beings can't REALLY watch out EVERY SINGLE PERSON at all times, right? Sometimes, one slips by unnoticed and takes a wrong path, but generically speaking, the world tens to drive them back to their right path. A simple example of this would be the independence of several countries, of course, there ARE still countries that are being opressed by colonizers, but that number IS decreasing as it always did as history progressed, that's undeniable.

[TheJord]

I understand how the majority of Christians on this forum feel, especially with regards to faith and works. I have debated it many times and the arguement has never been settled.

I believe God gave us Jesus Christ to allow us to return to His presence if we do what he asks of us. Part of this is, as you state, accepting Christ. But I believe to fully accept Christ into your live you must make your life a reflection of His, or at least to the best of our ability, as we are not perfect, as He is. This is why I believe you must have works also.

Anyway, back to the original topic...

[AgentDrake]

even omnipotent beings can't REALLY watch out EVERY SINGLE PERSON at all times, right?

"At all times" is assuming that said omnipotent beings exists within, not outside of, the time-space continuum. Which I would contest that God does not. Hence various Biblical references such as "a thousand ages in His sight are like a day gone by and vice versa." (Yeah, not word-for-word, I know.) Also the weird grammar in the statement "Before Abraham was, I AM." isn't just a weird way of making a statement for a powerful effect, but exemplifies that the past and present aren't necessarily different.
C.S. Lewis had a chapter on that in Mere Christianity which, even if you don't agree, is an interesting theoretical look at how things would look from outside of time. Also brings in some interesting connections between fate and free will (which, honestly, I don't believe are really mutually exclusive, but that would take forever to explain, and is part of that whole Dark Ages-era Anglo-Saxon/Old Norse influence in my worldview. If we're gonna argue about that one, we might need a whole new thread. Maybe I should write up an argument for that.  )

[FM]

What exactly do you mean by "works", TheJord?