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Author Topic: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable  (Read 9283 times)

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October 01, 2008, 08:35:45 AM
Reply #45

Smeagollum

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2008, 08:35:45 AM »
I believe only in 2 things: Everything is god or nothing is god. It makes it more easy! If everythings is god then everyone and every stone, star or whatever is god and all ethic rules are legal to it. And if everything is god then everything is uncounsesly connected with eachother what can explain telepathy and other esp things. This is called pantheism = everything is god.

Dano't know what you people think about it, but it makes sure that you respect other things and other liveforms. Actually you exclude nothing.

regards, jw

October 01, 2008, 02:06:35 PM
Reply #46

AgentDrake

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2008, 02:06:35 PM »
I believe only in 2 things: Everything is god or nothing is god. It makes it more easy!
So, wait... you're saying that the reason to believe this is because it's easy? Quantum physics isn't easy, molecular biology isn't easy, rocket science isn't easy, et cetera. It's easier to believe that the Earth is flat, or that the sun goes around the Earth.

If everythings is god then everyone and every stone, star or whatever is god and all ethic rules are legal to it.
So Hitler was a goodguy. I mean, if you want to try to argue that, fine. But you might have a problem. Especially since he didn't respect other things, lifeforms.... eh... under your philosophy, he didn't respect God (the other life forms, et cetera.) Oh, yeah. Throw in all the other psychopaths throughout history, too.

And if everything is god then everything is uncounsesly connected with eachother what can explain telepathy and other esp things.

Even assuming you believe that stuff, there are so many different ways to explain those phenomena that the fact this potentially explains it is no support at all. For example, some  explanations would be: 1. a connection in the mass unconscious suggested by Jung (Think Freudian psychology) 2. a sense existent on some sort of spiritual or mental plane, rather than physical plane (which is sort of how I figure the so-called 'women's intuition') which could fit into a large number of religions which consider the soul to be connected to, but separate from, the body 3. an ability of the mind (or societal mind) to define reality (think New Agers or Postmodernists)...

I could go on for a long time. And all that's assuming you even believe the stuff exists. No comment there.

This is called pantheism = everything is god.

You know, I've always sorta wondered about the etymology on the 'pan' prefix. Was it derived from Pan, or was it connected later? I sorta get the sense that it was derived by a sort of metaphorical relation, not a direct relation. ie, Pan is the god of nature, and since one could say that in a sense, everything exists within nature, Pan would sort of encompass everything. But he's not actually the god of everything, which is what I know a bunch of New Agers/Neopagans claim these days. As I recall, some of them also call Thor a female.

GET A FREAKING CLUE!!! READ THE BLOODY POEM!!! THOR IS MOST DECIDEDLY NOT FEMININE!!!

Sorry. My inner Norse fanatic wanted to complain about the complete corruption of the old myths by the neopagans. Back to the point at hand.

Dano't know what you people think about it, but it makes sure that you respect other things and other liveforms. Actually you exclude nothing.

Not necessarily. Let's run with your reasoning for a moment. That means that you are God just as much as everythign else. That means that you can do whatever you feel like. Including killing, slaughtering, *coughcough*holocaust*coughcough* et cetera. And you would, assuming this is true, be perfectly justified because you are part of God.
On the other hand, you could be a nice person and believe this. OR any number of other things and respect other life. Christianity, Judaism, (and, as I understand it, Islam as well) and I'm sure more others than I can list, also stress the importance of respecting other life, and non-life. The mentioned three for the reason exactly opposite what you suggest. Because they're not a part of 'you' and so you can't just do whatever the heck you want with them. Because they belong to some higher power, and you are, at most, a steward, assuming the belief system in question even argues that. Whether that Higher power is the Christian God, the Islamic God, or whatever is beside the point. You;re using someone else's stuff, and if you mess it up, lighting bolts might just start falling. Besides, presumably you don't want to go messing up other people's stuff. (I dunno. Maybe you do, but that's a whole different argument right there.)


I'm not trying to gun you down personally, just your argument. If you can come up with supporting claims and arguments, I'm all for going at it. ;)

Alright. Gotta go. I have to run to the store to pick up College Survival Supplies.
AKA, food.
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October 03, 2008, 12:53:23 PM
Reply #47

Kralik

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2008, 12:53:23 PM »
With a disproportionately high number of professing Christians on this site, maybe there should be a "hot topic" forum for religious/political discussions. As for this thread, I just now had a chance to read it. Where to start...? I don't have a lot of time, but a few comments:

God changing His mind? I don't believe He does, but from a human perspective it might seem so. There are some verses that indicate a "change" -- like God refraining from destroying Israel due to Moses' intercession. Exodus 32:14: "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people." On the other hand... I Samuel 15:29: "Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind." Nineveh was promised to be destroyed, but God relented when they repented. The pattern I see is not that God is changing His mind, but that He is acting according to His character and responding with mercy to repentance. There are many passages -- one example being Leviticus 26 -- where God says He will reverse punishment if people turn back to Him.

Gizlivadi / justice: The answer is in Romans 3:21-26. I won't quote it all here, but the basic gist of it is that God can be both wholly "just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Any mercy shown by God for man's sin comes only because of His grace. However, it is not that He simply chooses to bend the rules for a moment and forgive. The just requirement--due penalty for sin--was paid in full by Christ, giving those who believe a chance to be reconciled to God. It's important to remember that even in the Old Testament, sin was not really paid for by animal sacrifices. Hebrews 10:4: "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." Connected with the Romans passage, God passed over the sins of Old Testament saints because of their faith, and their sins were dealt with completely by the atonement. It is the same for us -- God doesn't forgive just because we are "really sowwy" but because the price has already been paid. He is still a Righteous Judge and does not tolerate sin.

Faith vs. works... gah, we could debate until we were blue in the face. Having studied both Romans and James I can understand both viewpoints. I don't think that Paul and James were conflicting. My belief (already expressed by others) is that faith is necessary for justification, and works are evidence of a living faith. There are many places that say that one cannot be justified by works. For those interested, and willing to do some careful study, see Romans 4 (was Abraham saved by works? before/after obeying God?), Ephesians 2:8-9 (even faith is a gift), John 3:14-16 (Numbers 21:6ff story of serpent is key to understanding Jesus here... what did the people have to do to be saved from the poison?), Galatians (the entire book, for a teaser read 3:11)...

I'm not really the in-your-face arguing/debating type, but I couldn't help putting out my :gp: :gp:'s worth. :P

October 03, 2008, 02:20:40 PM
Reply #48

Gil-Estel

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2008, 02:20:40 PM »
amen........nothing more to say or add....
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October 03, 2008, 03:06:31 PM
Reply #49

sickofpalantirs

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2008, 03:06:31 PM »
the one thing that I always wonder about in faith vs works. is the one passage where Christ is separating the sheep from the goats...and the main criteria seems to be, how they treated people...IDk...and the ones who are the sheep don't even recognize Jesus or something like that...
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October 03, 2008, 05:52:55 PM
Reply #50

Gate Troll

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2008, 05:52:55 PM »
With a disproportionately high number of professing Christians on this site, maybe there should be a "hot topic" forum for religious/political discussions. As for this thread, I just now had a chance to read it. Where to start...? I don't have a lot of time, but a few comments:

God changing His mind? I don't believe He does, but from a human perspective it might seem so. There are some verses that indicate a "change" -- like God refraining from destroying Israel due to Moses' intercession. Exodus 32:14: "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people." On the other hand... I Samuel 15:29: "Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind." Nineveh was promised to be destroyed, but God relented when they repented. The pattern I see is not that God is changing His mind, but that He is acting according to His character and responding with mercy to repentance. There are many passages -- one example being Leviticus 26 -- where God says He will reverse punishment if people turn back to Him.

Gizlivadi / justice: The answer is in Romans 3:21-26. I won't quote it all here, but the basic gist of it is that God can be both wholly "just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Any mercy shown by God for man's sin comes only because of His grace. However, it is not that He simply chooses to bend the rules for a moment and forgive. The just requirement--due penalty for sin--was paid in full by Christ, giving those who believe a chance to be reconciled to God. It's important to remember that even in the Old Testament, sin was not really paid for by animal sacrifices. Hebrews 10:4: "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." Connected with the Romans passage, God passed over the sins of Old Testament saints because of their faith, and their sins were dealt with completely by the atonement. It is the same for us -- God doesn't forgive just because we are "really sowwy" but because the price has already been paid. He is still a Righteous Judge and does not tolerate sin.

Faith vs. works... gah, we could debate until we were blue in the face. Having studied both Romans and James I can understand both viewpoints. I don't think that Paul and James were conflicting. My belief (already expressed by others) is that faith is necessary for justification, and works are evidence of a living faith. There are many places that say that one cannot be justified by works. For those interested, and willing to do some careful study, see Romans 4 (was Abraham saved by works? before/after obeying God?), Ephesians 2:8-9 (even faith is a gift), John 3:14-16 (Numbers 21:6ff story of serpent is key to understanding Jesus here... what did the people have to do to be saved from the poison?), Galatians (the entire book, for a teaser read 3:11)...

I'm not really the in-your-face arguing/debating type, but I couldn't help putting out my :gp: :gp:'s worth. :P

A debating forum would be nice.   8-)

October 04, 2008, 06:04:49 AM
Reply #51

sickofpalantirs

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2008, 06:04:49 AM »
nah...a subforum would be nice if anything...
and GT, if you quoting a massive block of text and saying one sentence...PLEASE just quote the relevant part.
Felipe Musco:
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Ahhh!!! SoP, you're a genius!!! :gp: ~Menace64
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October 04, 2008, 06:19:03 AM
Reply #52

Gil-Estel

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2008, 06:19:03 AM »
matthew 25 is the part where the final judgement is being descriped. I don't see a conflict between the faith vs works thing. The first step is one in faith, but it has consequenses. Read Malachi 1. The people thought they were serving God, but He means business.
..."Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill"...

October 04, 2008, 06:49:43 AM
Reply #53

Elrohir

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2008, 06:49:43 AM »
Are there any english bibles? I have never heared of mathew...what is his original name?

Are you all katholic? In my country, there are nearly all katholic. Just a few are ancient katholic and protestants. (I guess 1 percent)
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October 04, 2008, 07:28:34 AM
Reply #54

AgentDrake

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2008, 07:28:34 AM »
Are there any english bibles? I have never heared of mathew...what is his original name?
Yeah, there's dozens of different English translations. It's sorta funny sometimes to listen to people argue over which one's best. I like the old King James Version, then after that the New International Version. There's a few other good translations which I like, but I never remember what they're called, because I don't have a copy in that translation. Matthew is one of the gospels... I can't actually remember his Hebrew name if it wasn't originally Matthew. It's the first book of the New Testament (at least, in the standard English translations; could be different in other languages.) The apostle Matthew was the tax collector, if that helps you recognize which book it is.

Are you all katholic? In my country, there are nearly all katholic. Just a few are ancient katholic and protestants. (I guess 1 percent)
Well, I'm not sure what everyone else is. I'm Lutheran, actually. German and Scandinavian branch of Protestantism. Lots of protestants here in the US, and as I understand, most Christians in England are Anglican (go figure....) I'm not sure what the ratio of Catholics and Protestants is in the US. I should find out.
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October 04, 2008, 08:04:08 AM
Reply #55

turin08

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2008, 08:04:08 AM »
Charismatic myself.

October 04, 2008, 08:31:22 AM
Reply #56

FingolfinFinwe

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2008, 08:31:22 AM »
Nondenominational.

I prefer the New American Standard (NASB) translation myself because it is widely considered to be one of the most literal translations from the original Hebrew/Greek. (rather than a translation of a translation through the Latin Vulgate) But when recommending a version to people that are just gaining interest in reading the Bible I usually recommend the New International Version because it is the most easily understood text from a modern speech point of view, and is still a fairly accurate translation.

October 04, 2008, 09:51:22 AM
Reply #57

Gil-Estel

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2008, 09:51:22 AM »
Reformed, so we dislike katholics....no not true.....had you there...waiting for a new debate. Like to consider myself christian in the first place, allthough I am reformed for a reason.....
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October 05, 2008, 05:25:08 AM
Reply #58

TheJord

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2008, 05:25:08 AM »
I'm LDS  :)

EDIT: Better known as Mormon's, its the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormon will do!
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October 05, 2008, 05:43:17 AM
Reply #59

turin08

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Re: Deep Questions Seemingly Unanswerable
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2008, 05:43:17 AM »
Whats LDS?