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Author Topic: Towers Standard Sealed League  (Read 65689 times)

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September 22, 2014, 10:34:06 PM
Reply #105

dmaz

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #105 on: September 22, 2014, 10:34:06 PM »
All 3 replay codes don't work.

They aren't working for me either :(

Is this across the board?

September 23, 2014, 06:35:44 PM
Reply #106

dmaz

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #106 on: September 23, 2014, 06:35:44 PM »
@Durins Heir

I was thinking about the pairing of your Dwarf-Gandalf deck with the Sauron trackers.

As set 4 has no Sauron stuff at all, I'm thinking we might be better pairing the deck with your original  'Hate & Arrows' deck :)

(30 cards)
4x Uruk Crossbow Troop
4x Uruk Crossbowman
4x Goblin Bowman
3x Goblin Runner
3x Moria Archer Troop
3x Hate and Anger
2x One of You Must Do This
1x Saruman's Power
2x Host of Thousands
2x Saruman's Ambition
2x They Are Coming

This would any set 4 Isengard archer booster pulls like Ranged Commander, or Weapons of Isengard to be useful at that time :)
Additionally - since it's not set 1 anymore we wouldn't need to worry about nerfing the trackers quite as much.
I think pairing the trackers with the shoulder to shoulder deck in serie 2 or 3 might be good.

September 23, 2014, 07:37:57 PM
Reply #107

Merrick_H

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2014, 07:37:57 PM »
Here is a stab at some Dunland Discard Swarm Craziness.  It avoids the Elders, but gives some decent discard options.

Shadow Draw Deck:
2x Dunlending Arsonist
2x Dunlending Headman
3x Dunlending Looter
4x Dunlending Rampager
3x Dunlending Renegade
3x Hillman Tribe
4x Wild Man of Dunland
3x Iron Axe
2x Burn Every Village
2x Death to the Strawheads
2x Bound By Rage

September 23, 2014, 07:57:11 PM
Reply #108

dmaz

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #108 on: September 23, 2014, 07:57:11 PM »
Here is a stab at some Dunland Discard Swarm Craziness.  It avoids the Elders, but gives some decent discard options.

Shadow Draw Deck:
2x Dunlending Arsonist
2x Dunlending Headman
3x Dunlending Looter
4x Dunlending Rampager
3x Dunlending Renegade
3x Hillman Tribe
4x Wild Man of Dunland
3x Iron Axe
2x Burn Every Village
2x Death to the Strawheads
2x Bound By Rage

I really like it a lot!

The dynamics of the Rampager and Renegade are pretty neat. You could drop one or two of them first to lure your opponent into discard some cards, then drop your more expensive guys for site control after they may have been tempted enough to discard a skirmish event that would have saved them  :twisted:

Since site control is getting incorporated, it opens up the field to lots of neat options from booster pulls that may not have been used in the past.

What I particularly like is how it could possibly have the legs to be a strong competitor in serie 3 and 4 (unlike the two previous dunland starters which usually phase out) because Dunlending Elder is a common, and could likely be pulled from a booster in serie 3 and 4. I also think its wise not to include it in the starter though.

I'm thinking we could match them with Euk's Knights in serie 2. No one's really had much of an idea of what to pair them up with so far.

September 23, 2014, 08:30:21 PM
Reply #109

Durin's Heir

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2014, 08:30:21 PM »
@Durins Heir

I was thinking about the pairing of your Dwarf-Gandalf deck with the Sauron trackers.

As set 4 has no Sauron stuff at all, I'm thinking we might be better pairing the deck with your original  'Hate & Arrows' deck :)

This would any set 4 Isengard archer booster pulls like Ranged Commander, or Weapons of Isengard to be useful at that time :)
Additionally - since it's not set 1 anymore we wouldn't need to worry about nerfing the trackers quite as much.
I think pairing the trackers with the shoulder to shoulder deck in serie 2 or 3 might be good.

Set 4 hasn't a single Sauron card, but Set 1 is the core of Sauron culture: rares like Hate, Morgul Hunter, Morgul Warden, Orc Bowmen, Orc Banner and Enheartened Foe; uncommons like Orc Hunters or Orc Scouting Band; commons like Orc Soldier, Orc Scimitar, Forces of Mordor, Mordor's Strength, Shadow's Reach, Under the Watching Eye or You Bring Great Evil...

I was thinking about a 4th deck for 1st Serie: Gandalf + Valiant Rohirrim / Hate & Archery. Might be only Serie 1 should have 4 decks and the other two have 3 each (instead of 4, to a total of 10 instead of 12): that way there would be a broader base of decks to do coupled themes...
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

September 23, 2014, 09:56:05 PM
Reply #110

Durin's Heir

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #110 on: September 23, 2014, 09:56:05 PM »
Here's a rough draft of a Knights deck I've been working on... suggestions are welcome!

It's based on Eukalyptus' draft, with Boromir, Steward's Heir as the center piece:

Osgiliath Reclaimed deck:

2x Boromir, Steward's Heir
1x Faramir, Son of Denethor
2x Gondorian Knight
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
1x Merry, Learned Guide
1x Armor
1x Banner of Westernesse
2x Knight's Mount
3x Sword of Gondor
2x Hobbit Sword
2x Elendil's Valor
1x Gondor Will See It Done
1x Gondor's Vengeance
1x Might of Numenor
2x New Errand
3x Swordarm of the White Tower
1x Citadel of the Stars
2x City Wall
1x Garrison of Osgiliath

The starting fellowship may be either 2 knights or Boromir + Merry. The idea of using Learned Guide is to start an additional companion and be able to discard him when there's risk of overpopullation. This deck has only 2x Hobbit Sword as hobbit support, as it should be a Serie 2 deck...

First Level (outsider card) is removed as it would be either too weak or too strong: a -1 strength pump (wow!) or a direct wounding mechanism for Turgon... Turgon was designed at first to work on minions after a double move. Fortifications may not be played from discard in absence of foreign card Sixth Level (or a Set 5 event called Take Cover), so we shouldn't really worry about them being transferred for free (by spotting 3 knights). There are only 4, in order to use them as a last resource in absence of events (strength pumps or wounding events like New Errand).

Ranger tricks are New Errand to wound minions (combined with CotS may take you out of huge troubles) and Gondor's Vengeance for double moves (or to prevent a minion from using regroup abilities).

Elendil's Valor, Might of Numenor and Gondor Will See It Done are subtle survival mechanisms...

There are 2 outsider cards here: Boromir and Knights Mount. The horses are here to give versatility, and to allow the fellowship more chances of double moves. And because they could make a great combo with Weland and Leod from the Rohan deck...

1x Faramir is just a splash...

That's all...

EDIT: Changed Merry, From O'er the Brandywine for Learned Guide. Removed Coat of Mail and No Stranger to the Shadows and used those slots for subtler survival mechanisms...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 11:38:52 AM by Durins Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

September 24, 2014, 12:42:45 PM
Reply #111

Durin's Heir

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #111 on: September 24, 2014, 12:42:45 PM »
Here is a stab at some Dunland Discard Swarm Craziness.  It avoids the Elders, but gives some decent discard options.

Shadow Draw Deck:
2x Dunlending Arsonist
2x Dunlending Headman
3x Dunlending Looter
4x Dunlending Rampager
3x Dunlending Renegade
3x Hillman Tribe
4x Wild Man of Dunland
3x Iron Axe
2x Burn Every Village
2x Death to the Strawheads
2x Bound By Rage

I like it. But I'm afraid it has clearly at least 2 weak points it needs to correct:

1. It has little protection against archery or direct wounding. Each and every minion has only 1 vitality, and Bound by Rage is somewhat hard to play (besides, only 2 in the whole deck makes likely you will get it too late). Sites 2 and 3 may save you at the moment, but after that Legolas alone will cause you severe headaches. Add some Elven Bows to the mix and it would be an automatic loss...

(By the way, I'm a proponent of NOT including an Elven Archery deck as it would be really overpowered: Legolas + 2 bows would easily terminate Dunland, Moria, Sauron Trackers and even Uruks. Naith Elves would be enough instead)

2. It has neither direct discarding nor ways of getting advantage from reduced hand (initiative, for example), thus many minions will work as mere 'discarding events' of twilight cost 1 or 2 (and the remaining will be pin cushions for archery or maneuver direct wounding). 21 minions is a good number, but I'd remove those 3x Iron Axe (as dunlendings are strong by themselves) and use those slots for barefoot hillmen instead (or even skirimish events, as the axes are visible, thus predictable pumps)... preferably Dunlending Footmen or Band of Wild Men.

There's an alternate solution to those problems, Site Control Uruks: Advance Uruk Patrol, Uruk-Hai Band and Uruk-Hai Mob. You might include these as they soak well the archery, as far as the Dunlendings count doesn't go below 18... Even discard Orcs like Tower Lieutenant and Orc Inquisitor may help...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 01:59:06 PM by Durins Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

September 24, 2014, 04:09:15 PM
Reply #112

BigRedMF

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #112 on: September 24, 2014, 04:09:15 PM »
I am really enjoying all these ideas, and I'd be extremely happy to help playtest. However I don't think it is evident to me just which decks are actually ready for playtesting. The only complete decks I see so far are Dwarves/Sauron Trackers, 3 Hunters/Uruk Trackers, and a Ring-bound/Easterling pairing. If I am missing something please point it out.

I'll make these decks and hopefully have some spare time to playtest.

September 24, 2014, 04:22:16 PM
Reply #113

Merrick_H

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September 24, 2014, 08:26:12 PM
Reply #114

Merrick_H

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #114 on: September 24, 2014, 08:26:12 PM »
I like it. But I'm afraid it has clearly at least 2 weak points it needs to correct:

1. It has little protection against archery or direct wounding. Each and every minion has only 1 vitality, and Bound by Rage is somewhat hard to play (besides, only 2 in the whole deck makes likely you will get it too late). Sites 2 and 3 may save you at the moment, but after that Legolas alone will cause you severe headaches. Add some Elven Bows to the mix and it would be an automatic loss...

(By the way, I'm a proponent of NOT including an Elven Archery deck as it would be really overpowered: Legolas + 2 bows would easily terminate Dunland, Moria, Sauron Trackers and even Uruks. Naith Elves would be enough instead)

2. It has neither direct discarding nor ways of getting advantage from reduced hand (initiative, for example), thus many minions will work as mere 'discarding events' of twilight cost 1 or 2 (and the remaining will be pin cushions for archery or maneuver direct wounding). 21 minions is a good number, but I'd remove those 3x Iron Axe (as dunlendings are strong by themselves) and use those slots for barefoot hillmen instead (or even skirimish events, as the axes are visible, thus predictable pumps)... preferably Dunlending Footmen or Band of Wild Men.

There's an alternate solution to those problems, Site Control Uruks: Advance Uruk Patrol, Uruk-Hai Band and Uruk-Hai Mob. You might include these as they soak well the archery, as far as the Dunlendings count doesn't go below 18... Even discard Orcs like Tower Lieutenant and Orc Inquisitor may help...
How about this as a switch-up?

Shadow Draw Deck:
2x Dunlending Arsonist
2x Dunlending Headman
3x Dunlending Looter
3x Dunlending Rampager (-1)
3x Dunlending Renegade
3x Hillman Tribe
3x Wild Man of Dunland (-1)
3x Iron Axe
2x Burn Every Village
2x Death to the Strawheads
2x Bound By Rage
+3x Orc Inquisitor
+2x Tower Lieutenant


This gives a slight bit of control to peel cards out of hands at key times to get more minions to stick as well as giving additional vitality.

Thoughts?

September 24, 2014, 09:17:13 PM
Reply #115

dmaz

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #115 on: September 24, 2014, 09:17:13 PM »
That's pretty cool!

I curious to see just how brutal it will be with the discarding...the addition of the orcs seems decently balanced since they will be costly for twilight until site 6, so an early swarm in conjunction with them won't be overly easy.


September 24, 2014, 10:47:39 PM
Reply #116

dmaz

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #116 on: September 24, 2014, 10:47:39 PM »
I am really enjoying all these ideas, and I'd be extremely happy to help playtest. However I don't think it is evident to me just which decks are actually ready for playtesting. The only complete decks I see so far are Dwarves/Sauron Trackers, 3 Hunters/Uruk Trackers, and a Ring-bound/Easterling pairing. If I am missing something please point it out.

I'll make these decks and hopefully have some spare time to playtest.

Thanks for hopping on board! I'm looking forward to playtesting with you!
Merrick has made a thread for proposed deck lists and replays links :)

September 25, 2014, 06:33:30 AM
Reply #117

Merrick_H

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2014, 06:33:30 AM »
Here's a rough draft of a Knights deck I've been working on... suggestions are welcome!

It's based on Eukalyptus' draft, with Boromir, Steward's Heir as the center piece:

Osgiliath Reclaimed deck:

2x Boromir, Steward's Heir
1x Faramir, Son of Denethor
2x Gondorian Knight
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
1x Merry, Learned Guide
1x Armor
1x Banner of Westernesse
2x Knight's Mount
3x Sword of Gondor
2x Hobbit Sword
2x Elendil's Valor
1x Gondor Will See It Done
1x Gondor's Vengeance
1x Might of Numenor
2x New Errand
3x Swordarm of the White Tower
1x Citadel of the Stars
2x City Wall
1x Garrison of Osgiliath

The starting fellowship may be either 2 knights or Boromir + Merry. The idea of using Learned Guide is to start an additional companion and be able to discard him when there's risk of overpopullation. This deck has only 2x Hobbit Sword as hobbit support, as it should be a Serie 2 deck...

First Level (outsider card) is removed as it would be either too weak or too strong: a -1 strength pump (wow!) or a direct wounding mechanism for Turgon... Turgon was designed at first to work on minions after a double move. Fortifications may not be played from discard in absence of foreign card Sixth Level (or a Set 5 event called Take Cover), so we shouldn't really worry about them being transferred for free (by spotting 3 knights). There are only 4, in order to use them as a last resource in absence of events (strength pumps or wounding events like New Errand).

Ranger tricks are New Errand to wound minions (combined with CotS may take you out of huge troubles) and Gondor's Vengeance for double moves (or to prevent a minion from using regroup abilities).

Elendil's Valor, Might of Numenor and Gondor Will See It Done are subtle survival mechanisms...

There are 2 outsider cards here: Boromir and Knights Mount. The horses are here to give versatility, and to allow the fellowship more chances of double moves. And because they could make a great combo with Weland and Leod from the Rohan deck...

1x Faramir is just a splash...

That's all...

EDIT: Changed Merry, From O'er the Brandywine for Learned Guide. Removed Coat of Mail and No Stranger to the Shadows and used those slots for subtler survival mechanisms...
Here is my feedback:

2x Boromir, Steward's Heir
1x Faramir, Son of Denethor
2x Gondorian Knight
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
1x Merry, Learned Guide
+1x Merry, From O'er the Brandywine
1x Armor
1x Banner of Westernesse
2x Knight's Mount
3x Sword of Gondor
2x Hobbit Sword
1x Elendil's Valor (-1)
1x Gondor Will See It Done
1x Gondor's Vengeance
1x Might of Numenor
2x New Errand
3x Swordarm of the White Tower
1x Citadel of the Stars
2x City Wall
1x Garrison of Osgiliath
+2x Severed his Bonds

Every deck should have some Frodo protection beyond just a hobbit sword and adding the 2x Severed helps at just about any time.  To get the Severeds in, I dropped Armor and an Elendil's Valor.  Anything that makes a companion Defender +1 is amazingly powerful in sealed.  Tread with caution when using it.  I want it to be more of an out in a bad situation than a major pump.  To that end, I might also switch out the Gondor's Vengeance for dagger strikes so that you end up with 2x dagger strike, 1x Gondor's Vengeance as you have lots of hand weapons.  This would also help clear the board if you are trying to set up the ability to double move.

I changed Merrys to give more flexibility in the starting lineup.  If you get a sword early, you have another solid companion who isn't going to die early on.  Also works well if we make the change to dagger strikes.  I don't have a problem with Boromir, Steward's Heir or Knight's Mount.  They seem pretty reasonable and low power additions to the format.

I'd consider pairing this with the Dunland Swarm deck.  They seem somewhat complementary.

September 25, 2014, 07:19:58 AM
Reply #118

dmaz

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #118 on: September 25, 2014, 07:19:58 AM »
Boromir, Steward's Heir is pretty cool...at first I was kind of skeptical, but I agree that he's not overpowered in any way. Just adds some keywords that lets him bear possessions that Boromir usually doesn't bear :)

Overall, the deck is a little sporadic though...it almost can't decide whether it's Knights or Rangers.

While having the Knight count too high might make the deck a little to easy to run the fortifications, you could always throw in Dervorin (replace Faramir) to work the same way as Gondor's Vengeance, while not being a knight and having a conditional ability so he's not too OP.

You could drop the two New Errands for something Knight related. Right now there are only 3 fortifications, another Citadel of the Stars would be too much, but First Level would be ok I think...There's a skirmish event for Knights that is essentially the comparable card to New Errand, wounding a minion bearing a fortification, I think.

EDIT:
3x War Must Be for 3x Swordarm of the White Tower
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 07:23:49 AM by dmaz »

September 25, 2014, 05:26:35 PM
Reply #119

Durin's Heir

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Re: Towers Standard Sealed League
« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2014, 05:26:35 PM »
Every deck should have some Frodo protection beyond just a hobbit sword and adding the 2x Severed helps at just about any time.

Merrick, really thanks for your feedback. I will treat each point you mention...

This should be a Serie 2 deck, as Knights show up at set 5. As each Serie 1 deck has 2x Severed His Bonds and 2x Hobbit Sword, decks from further series don't need that addition... We can add them to the testing versions anyway, that's a good point. New errand can save Frodo from swarming too!

IMO each deck from Serie 2 should have 1x or 2x Hobbit Sword, that way Serie 3 won't need any generic hobbit aid at all, allowing more card slots for themed synergies... A total of 3 Hobbits Swords are fairly enough for a non-hobbit theme like this one, so I'll cut one. Every free slot here is GOLD. ;)

I dropped Armor and an Elendil's Valor. Anything that makes a companion Defender +1 is amazingly powerful in sealed.  Tread with caution when using it. I want it to be more of an out in a bad situation than a major pump. To that end, I might also switch out the Gondor's Vengeance for dagger strikes so that you end up with 2x dagger strike, 1x Gondor's Vengeance as you have lots of hand weapons.  This would also help clear the board if you are trying to set up the ability to double move.

Armor is there to survive Battleground/Site Control/Machine Uruks. As for the defender +1, you're absolutely right! 1x Elendil's Valor should be enough, besides RB Rangers deck has one too. (I was going to add I Will Go instead of it at the first draw...)

That leaves a total of 2 free slots...   :P

I changed Merrys to give more flexibility in the starting lineup.  If you get a sword early, you have another solid companion who isn't going to die early on.  Also works well if we make the change to dagger strikes.  I don't have a problem with Boromir, Steward's Heir or Knight's Mount.  They seem pretty reasonable and low power additions to the format.

Learned Guide was there to prevent an early swarm and discard him when set up, but your point is better: if you want to reduce companions, just send a non-exhausted Merry to a 14 strength guy...

I'd consider pairing this with the Dunland Swarm deck.  They seem somewhat complementary.

Well heard my fellow! This fellowship can handle Dunlendings given those fortifications, Knights Mount and New Errand, and they should complement well each other as the shadow empties hand quickly.


Boromir, Steward's Heir is pretty cool...at first I was kind of skeptical, but I agree that he's not overpowered in any way. Just adds some keywords that lets him bear possessions that Boromir usually doesn't bear :)

Overall, the deck is a little sporadic though...it almost can't decide whether it's Knights or Rangers.

While having the Knight count too high might make the deck a little to easy to run the fortifications, you could always throw in Dervorin (replace Faramir) to work the same way as Gondor's Vengeance, while not being a knight and having a conditional ability so he's not too OP.

You could drop the two New Errands for something Knight related. Right now there are only 3 fortifications, another Citadel of the Stars would be too much, but First Level would be ok I think...There's a skirmish event for Knights that is essentially the comparable card to New Errand, wounding a minion bearing a fortification, I think.

EDIT:
3x War Must Be for 3x Swordarm of the White Tower

Dmaz, that Boromir not only can use more possessions/conditions, but events: Gondor's Vengeance, New Errand. The latter saves necks...

As for the 'sporadic' property, the idea is to use Boromir as a bridge between Knights and RB Rangers in order to make this deck give benefits to, or get benefits from, the RB Ranger deck from Serie 1... and to get some strange subtle dynamics too! But you're right, I'll charge it towards Knights: I'll use those 2 free slots for 2x City Wall... First Level is trash by itself, or overpowered with Turgon.

In respect to transferring the fortifications for free, I think you are thinking about the dynamics of King Block's Knights: fortifications can be replayed with Sixth Level, you can heal Ingold twice, you can exhaust a minion with Fifth Level, and then kill it with Gondor Bow... Nothing of that applies here, so let them be free with 4 or 5 knights.

The event you refer is Men of Numenor, but it wastes 2 card slots instead of 1 (the fortification and the event itself). New Errand uses only 1 but has a condition: the minion must lose.

3x War Must Be... Due to scarce fortifications, Swordarm of the White Tower seemed better. Now with more fortifications I will exchange them. 2x War Must Be and another Might of Numenor, as those 5 fortifications are pumps too.

Really thank you guys for the feedback.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 05:32:45 PM by Durins Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X