Towers Standard Sealed League

[Eukalyptus]

That would be true if we were to do just a Sealed with starter decks and packs. These are preconstructed decks done by us, just like the Revised Movie was done. And you don't get extra cards there either. We want this league to be in the same spirit.

[Merrick_H]

I would be against the additional crowd control at this point.  If the starter decks don't play many companions, and they can't fight very well, crowd control is less of an issue.  The deck that will need to be controlled most is Rohan most likely, but it has other issues in that it has no guaranteed condition removal and is pretty susceptible to direct and indirect wounding.

These are "pre-constructed starter decks" so they need to be able to stand on their own.  Adding additional outside cards to free up card slots somewhat defeats the purpose of designing them as starters.  If you were able to play with the Revised Movie Block starters, I think you'd find them pretty well balanced.  We'll have to see how it all works out, but we might want to include some anti-6 in the decks starting in series 2 or just see how it plays out when we add some in series 3.

[dmaz]

Regarding the Enquea count.

In the Movie sealed it looks like there are three total decks with Shotgun Enquea.

I agree that it shouldn't be a staple for every deck, but perhaps by Serie 3, everyone could have the chance to have 1, depending on their starter deck choices.

We could include him in Shadows that could actually need some form of crowd control. The Sauron Grind already has a little built into it.
As many have agreed, I don't think he belongs in either the Easterling or Twilight Nazgul deck, and someone going that route shouldn't have easy access to him.
Just as in Serie 1 of the Movie sealed, perhaps we could add him to the Dunland Discard deck? I think it wouldn't hurt for that deck to get a little crowd control. The only other deck, other than Tracker Uruks that looks like it might need a little help would be Berserker Uruks.
Maybe it would be too strong to add to the Uruk/Moria archery deck, as Frodo will probably be taking burdens every skirmish phase to avoid more wounds...

[Merrick_H]

Regarding the Enquea count.

In the Movie sealed it looks like there are three total decks with Shotgun Enquea.

I agree that it shouldn't be a staple for every deck, but perhaps by Serie 3, everyone could have the chance to have 1, depending on their starter deck choices.

We could include him in Shadows that could actually need some form of crowd control. The Sauron Grind already has a little built into it.
As many have agreed, I don't think he belongs in either the Easterling or Twilight Nazgul deck, and someone going that route shouldn't have easy access to him.
Just as in Serie 1 of the Movie sealed, perhaps we could add him to the Dunland Discard deck? I think it wouldn't hurt for that deck to get a little crowd control. The only other deck, other than Tracker Uruks that looks like it might need a little help would be Berserker Uruks.
Maybe it would be too strong to add to the Uruk/Moria archery deck, as Frodo will probably be taking burdens every skirmish phase to avoid more wounds...

All of the decks in series 1 and 2 for the movie block have some form of crowd control  (Far Harad Mercenaries, The Number Must Be Few, Easterling Pillager, Shotgun Enquea, Southron Commander).  3 decks have access to Shotgun Enquea.  I don't think it would be good to give that option to either of the decks that have the burden adding potential.  Currently the only deck that has direct crowd control is the Grind deck with TNMBF.  The archery deck is pretty effective at crowd control given the amount of archery it can throw out there, however I don't know how well it will hold up if people balloon to 6-9 companions.

I think that adding some form of crowd control to the first and second series decks would be good, but our options are somewhat limited unless we go down the paths that are listed above.  I don't want Enquea or specifically the commander to be in every deck as it will just kill some decks outright (the RB Ranger one).

We are proposing moving the Tracker Uruks to series 3 so that is not a big deal if it doesn't get some help.

[dmaz]

All of the decks in series 1 and 2 for the movie block have some form of crowd control  (Far Harad Mercenaries, The Number Must Be Few, Easterling Pillager, Shotgun Enquea, Southron Commander).  3 decks have access to Shotgun Enquea.  I don't think it would be good to give that option to either of the decks that have the burden adding potential.  Currently the only deck that has direct crowd control is the Grind deck with TNMBF.  The archery deck is pretty effective at crowd control given the amount of archery it can throw out there, however I don't know how well it will hold up if people balloon to 6-9 companions.

I think that adding some form of crowd control to the first and second series decks would be good, but our options are somewhat limited unless we go down the paths that are listed above.  I don't want Enquea or specifically the commander to be in every deck as it will just kill some decks outright (the RB Ranger one).

We are proposing moving the Tracker Uruks to series 3 so that is not a big deal if it doesn't get some help.

Agreed. That is a good point about the archery deck...I suppose the only reason we saw the burden count climbing to 5 by site 7ish was simply for lack of companions (since we are just testing the 30 card deck).

If we're going to go with a little Enquea support maybe we could do it this way:

Serie 1:
Archery

Serie 2:
Berserkers
Dunland

Serie 3:
None

Even though the Easterling deck doesn't have crowd control, since it's intention of winning is indirect (through corruption or heavy damage from lots of burdens), maybe it doesn't need it? I guess the only concern would be mirror match, as there will be more companions than we've been testing with.

[Merrick_H]

If we want crowd control with the Easterlings and want to stay within the theme for them, we drop a minion or two and add Easterling Pillager in their place.  Not an overpowered card IMO and only very situationally good.

[dmaz]

I like that idea...he had come to mind a while back, but kind of forgot about him. With the new format we can easily test him now

[Durin's Heir]

Something to start working on:

3x Desert Warrior
3x Southron Bowman
1x Southron Commander
3x Southron Invaders
3x Southron Marcher
3x Southron Runner
3x Southron Traveler
2x Southron Veterans
2x Mumak
2x Southron Spear
2x On the March
3x Whirling Strike

For discussion:

-1 Southron Veterans
+1 Far Harad Mercenaries

What about Flanking Attack? I mean, the way the FP player assigns skirimishes is heavily determined by the amount of pool (and Ambush): if there's less than , there will be no skirimish events; if there's less than , there will be no Whirling Strike nor use of Desert Warrior's text; if there's less than , Southron Spear will only add 2 strength. But a surprising Flanking Attack changes everything!

I don't see those Southron Marcher and Southron Runner with good eyes... they add less twilight than what they cost, and it's added after the shadow phase (where it would be most useful) and the archery phase (they need to survive it first)... Thus, I can't see the swarming potential.

3x Mumak instead of 2...

Just some thoughts.

[Eukalyptus]

This shadow isn't designed to swarm. Southron Runner adds (2), while costing (1). The idea is indeed to generate pool for the skirmish phases and do the damage there. The 2 strength of Spear are enough imo if they can't exert and they don't make them fierce. Which would either kill them completely or too strong. 2 Mumak are fine I think.

[dmaz]

This shadow isn't designed to swarm. Southron Runner adds (2), while costing (1). The idea is indeed to generate pool for the skirmish phases and do the damage there. The 2 strength of Spear are enough imo if they can't exert and they don't make them fierce. Which would either kill them completely or too strong. 2 Mumak are fine I think.

I kind of saw him that way too. He's like a Goblin Runner with more strings attached. He can effectively add 1 to the pool for skirmish punishment

[dmaz]

China National Holiday starts tomorrow, so I should have a lot of time for play testing with you guys Looking forward to a productive week. We can definitely make a dent in some of the Serie 2 decks.

[Durin's Heir]

This shadow isn't designed to swarm. Southron Runner adds (2), while costing (1). The idea is indeed to generate pool for the skirmish phases and do the damage there. The 2 strength of Spear are enough imo if they can't exert and they don't make them fierce. Which would either kill them completely or too strong. 2 Mumak are fine I think.

If it's not designed to swarm, then is designed to beatdown, or to corrupt... or to lose. It's not bad designed at all, but those small guys can't win skirimishes nor exert with Southron Spear (or Flanking Attack). They are quite susceptible to direct wounding or arrows... I mean, a 6 strength guy with Spear and Mumak, a 11 strength fierce ambush southron is an easy target for a Quick As May Be or a Ranger's Bow if has only 1 vitality. Those card slots are worth of better minions/items/pumps... shouldn't be considered minions at all but twilight adding events if they remain, don't count them in the minion ratio just as Bill Ferny, Saruman and Wormtongue can't be counted that way in an Uruk deck. Southron Traveler is a great minion, don't put him in the same bag...

Those small guys can't do the beatdown job, but a Mumak or a Spear can. And some surprise twilight for an equally surprising Whirling Strike can too...

No one has made a mention of Flanking Attack. The difference between Ambush and a Flanking Attack is the surprise factor, just as the difference between a Goblin Scimitar (or Guard Commander) and Drums in the Deep... Thus it can turn a safe predictable assignment into a perilous gamble. And do the beatdown.

I kind of saw him that way too. He's like a Goblin Runner with more strings attached. He can effectively add 1 to the pool for skirmish punishment

Goblin Runner can swarm very well. And adds twilight in the Shadow phase. Those are quite different minions in quite different cultures and dynamics. You can even add 3x Goblin Runner instead, as it doesn't have to survive maneuver/archery, is exactly as predictable and allows the twilight in the Shadow phase...

[Eukalyptus]

Oh jeez, the whole time I thought it was a conditon 

So you mean the deck needs to be rearranged with bigger minions and 2 Flanking Attack instead of Southron Spear?

[Durin's Heir]

Oh jeez, the whole time I thought it was a conditon 

So you mean the deck needs to be rearranged with bigger minions and 2 Flanking Attack instead of Southron Spear?

Almost what you say... 2x Flanking Attack and bigger minions instead of those 'twilight adding event' minions; those Spears are quite valuable. The deck needs minions with more vitality.

And a 3rd Mumak, if the beatdown way is the only path we can choose, then we must focus on that.

[Eukalyptus]

3x Desert Spearman
2x Desert Warrior
3x Elite Archer
2x Far Harad Mercenaries
3x Southron Bowman
1x Southron Commander
2x Southron Explorer (cheap, can exert twice)
3x Southron Traveler
3x Mumak
2x Southron Spear
2x Flanking Attack
2x On the March
2x Whirling Strike

The ambush angle is almost gone this way.