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Author Topic: Lands of Shadow - Something to Fear. (10/24)  (Read 33819 times)

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October 16, 2008, 09:36:58 AM
Reply #60

DáinIronfoot

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Re: Lands of Shadow - Are You Ready For The Main Course? (10/15)
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2008, 09:36:58 AM »
Quote from: menace64
[8] •The Witch-king, The Undoing of Man [Wraith]
Minion • Nazgûl
Strength 14
Vitality 4
Site Number 3
Fierce. Unliving.
Each minion assigned to skirmish a Man gains pillage 2.
Response: If a Nazgûl wins a skirmish, exert The Witch-king to return a Free Peoples card (except a companion) to its owner's hand.
Response: If a Man companion loses a skirmish, discard 2 [Wraith] cards from hand to heal The Witch-king.
"He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered…"
M1R126

The pillage part is fine. The first response ability is a bit OP; I'd limit that to fierce skirmishes won, or perhaps exerting Wikkie twice. I also think it should simply be an "Each time" ability so you can't use it over and over when just ONE Nazzie wins...that's a bit too mean for my tastes. The second response ability seems a little underpowered...I think one [Wraith] card discarded would be fine.

Now, about unliving. After much internal deliberation, I think it's relatively balanced, but I would prefer that it require discarding a card of that character's culture to do the shuffling.

Quote from: menace64
[3] Cursed Warrior [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. While you can spot 3 unliving companions, this companion is twilight cost -1.
For each wound on this companion, it is strength +1.
"‘Strange and wonderful I thought it that the designs of Mordor should be overthrown by such wraiths of fear and darkness. With its own weapons was it worsted!'"
M1U108

Um...why the change to [Wraith] culture? I think I would prefer they still be [Gondor] culture so they can work with the old-school ones. I also think it would be fine with just a regular old enduring, since it doesn't really do anything else besides potentially costing only [2]. Save you a bit of text that way, too.

Question: is that lore from Return of the King? I don't recognize it.

Quote from: menace64
[1] Wraith of the Twilight City [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or 2 [Wraith] companions.
"‘Some I saw riding, some striding, yet all moving with the same great speed. Silent they were, but there was a gleam in their eyes. In the uplands of Lamedon they overtook our horses, and swept round us, and would have passed us by, if Aragorn had not forbidden them.'"
M1C128

Again, I would really REALLY prefer they stay in the [Gondor] culture, just for flavor's sake. Got no problems with it otherwise. Strider and three of these starting...mwaha. :twisted:
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 09:38:55 AM by DáinIronfoot »
Best regards,
Dáin


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October 16, 2008, 09:55:17 AM
Reply #61

Gate Troll

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Unliving Champion Cometh. (10/16)
« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2008, 09:55:17 AM »
With all the other Shadow [Wraith] cards spoiled, we've arrived at last at The Witch-king himself. This minion is the only fierce minion in the whole set, and sports a brand new keyword that is sure to change just about everything:

[8] •The Witch-king, The Undoing of Man [Wraith]
Minion • Nazgûl
Strength 14
Vitality 4
Site Number 3
Fierce. Unliving.
Each minion assigned to skirmish a Man gains pillage 2.
Response: If a Nazgûl wins a skirmish, exert The Witch-king to return a Free Peoples card (except a companion) to its owner's hand.
Response: If a Man companion loses a skirmish, discard 2 [Wraith] cards from hand to heal The Witch-king.
"He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered…"
M1R126

Wow. =D> Definitely worth waiting for.

[3] Cursed Warrior [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. While you can spot 3 unliving companions, this companion is twilight cost -1.
For each wound on this companion, it is strength +1.
"‘Strange and wonderful I thought it that the designs of Mordor should be overthrown by such wraiths of fear and darkness. With its own weapons was it worsted!'"
M1U108

Neat!  :)

[1] Wraith of the Twilight City [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or 2 [Wraith] companions.
"‘Some I saw riding, some striding, yet all moving with the same great speed. Silent they were, but there was a gleam in their eyes. In the uplands of Lamedon they overtook our horses, and swept round us, and would have passed us by, if Aragorn had not forbidden them.'"
M1C128

Imagine: Starting Fellowship = Boromir, Bearer of Council + Ring of Doom + Strider + Wraith of the Twilight city x3  :o
I'd make him [2]



A King of the Dead ring-bearer would be interesting...  :-k

October 16, 2008, 10:54:10 AM
Reply #62

sickofpalantirs

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Unliving Champion Cometh. (10/16)
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2008, 10:54:10 AM »
With all the other Shadow [Wraith] cards spoiled, we've arrived at last at The Witch-king himself. This minion is the only fierce minion in the whole set, and sports a brand new keyword that is sure to change just about everything:

[8] •The Witch-king, The Undoing of Man [Wraith]
Minion • Nazgûl
Strength 14
Vitality 4
Site Number 3
Fierce. Unliving.
Each minion assigned to skirmish a Man gains pillage 2.
Response: If a Nazgûl wins a skirmish, exert The Witch-king to return a Free Peoples card (except a companion) to its owner's hand.
Response: If a Man companion loses a skirmish, discard 2 [Wraith] cards from hand to heal The Witch-king.
"He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered…"
M1R126
I likey...

Unliving (When this character is discarded from play or killed, you may discard a card from hand to shuffle it into your draw deck instead.)

Yup. Unliving makes it extremely hard to actually kill a character. And, when applied to companions, pretty much circumvents entirely the Rule of 9. So here we go: it's time to plow through the Dead Army!

[3] Cursed Warrior [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. While you can spot 3 unliving companions, this companion is twilight cost -1.
For each wound on this companion, it is strength +1.
"‘Strange and wonderful I thought it that the designs of Mordor should be overthrown by such wraiths of fear and darkness. With its own weapons was it worsted!'"
M1U108
works for me...

[1] Wraith of the Twilight City [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or 2 [Wraith] companions.
"‘Some I saw riding, some striding, yet all moving with the same great speed. Silent they were, but there was a gleam in their eyes. In the uplands of Lamedon they overtook our horses, and swept round us, and would have passed us by, if Aragorn had not forbidden them.'"
M1C128
nice and simple...I feel like they should all have that +1 enduring text though.
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October 16, 2008, 11:44:07 AM
Reply #63

Thranduil

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Re: Lands of Shadow - Are You Ready For The Main Course? (10/15)
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2008, 11:44:07 AM »
[8] •The Witch-king, The Undoing of Man [Wraith]
Minion • Nazgûl
Strength 14
Vitality 4
Site Number 3
Fierce. Unliving.
Each minion assigned to skirmish a Man gains pillage 2.
Response: If a Nazgûl wins a skirmish, exert The Witch-king to return a Free Peoples card (except a companion) to its owner's hand.
Response: If a Man companion loses a skirmish, discard 2 [Wraith] cards from hand to heal The Witch-king.
"He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered…"
M1R126
It seems like the second response ability is overkill and the first is seriously OP. I would remove the second (this card really has an unnecessary amount of text) and change the first to an "each time" as DI suggested. Unliving seems pretty decent, especially with the already existing theme of shuffling [Wraith] cards back into your draw deck.

[3] Cursed Warrior [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. While you can spot 3 unliving companions, this companion is twilight cost -1.
For each wound on this companion, it is strength +1.
"‘Strange and wonderful I thought it that the designs of Mordor should be overthrown by such wraiths of fear and darkness. With its own weapons was it worsted!'"
M1U108
He does seem that he could just be straight enduring. Also, I think he should either have or be able to gain the [Gondor] culture (as well as or instead of [Wraith], it doesn't bother me which) so that you can use him with the SoG Wraiths.

[1] Wraith of the Twilight City [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or 2 [Wraith] companions.
"‘Some I saw riding, some striding, yet all moving with the same great speed. Silent they were, but there was a gleam in their eyes. In the uplands of Lamedon they overtook our horses, and swept round us, and would have passed us by, if Aragorn had not forbidden them.'"
M1C128
Solid.

Thranduil

October 16, 2008, 11:48:36 AM
Reply #64

Gate Troll

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Unliving Champion Cometh. (10/16)
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2008, 11:48:36 AM »
nice and simple...I feel like they should all have that +1 enduring text though.

Ditto SoP here. Wraith of the Twilight City should be 5/3/5 Enduring.

October 16, 2008, 04:24:07 PM
Reply #65

Elf_Lvr

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Unliving Champion Cometh. (10/16)
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2008, 04:24:07 PM »
[8] •The Witch-king, The Undoing of Man [Wraith]
Minion • Nazgûl
Strength 14
Vitality 4
Site Number 3
Fierce. Unliving.
Each minion assigned to skirmish a Man gains pillage 2.
Response: If a Nazgûl wins a skirmish, exert The Witch-king to return a Free Peoples card (except a companion) to its owner's hand.
Response: If a Man companion loses a skirmish, discard 2 [Wraith] cards from hand to heal The Witch-king.
"He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered…"
M1R126

I'd second Thran: However cool it is, drop the second ability. And the first definitely needs to be "Each time" so, again, it can't trigger 3 times from one skirmish.

Quote
Unliving (When this character is discarded from play or killed, you may discard a card from hand to shuffle it into your draw deck instead.)

I'd agree with Dain - the discarded card should share a culture.

Quote
[3] Cursed Warrior [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. While you can spot 3 unliving companions, this companion is twilight cost -1.
For each wound on this companion, it is strength +1.
"‘Strange and wonderful I thought it that the designs of Mordor should be overthrown by such wraiths of fear and darkness. With its own weapons was it worsted!'"
M1U108

I actually think these guys might be okay outside [Gondor], because they lack enduring and threat-focus, but have Unliving. So long as you build up a nice theme with that, they can stay as-is, IMO. Although the psuedo-enduring is nice.

Quote
[1] Wraith of the Twilight City [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or 2 [Wraith] companions.
"‘Some I saw riding, some striding, yet all moving with the same great speed. Silent they were, but there was a gleam in their eyes. In the uplands of Lamedon they overtook our horses, and swept round us, and would have passed us by, if Aragorn had not forbidden them.'"
M1C128

Drop strength to 5 and add the "wound +1"-type text.
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October 16, 2008, 10:23:47 PM
Reply #66

menace64

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Unliving Champion Cometh. (10/16)
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2008, 10:23:47 PM »
Yeah I'll fix TWK exactly as specified; it's obvious I let myself get carried away with him.

Now, two things must be further explained before I can move on with the new Wraiths. These guys aren't meant to be an expansion to the SoG/MD Wraiths; this new subculture is a rehash of the entire idea (much like the [Orc] or [Men] cultures). Along with that goes the entire theme of the set: to use none of the existing keywords with completely new cultures.

In the end, I gave the Cursed Warrior a pseudo-enduring text because I think it helped him carry out the role of a non-unique fighter. I didn't give the same text to the other Wraith (nor will any other Wraith get that text) because it does stray too closely to enduring. Also the Wraith of the Twilight City needs to stay at [1] cost because I think the Wraiths will need a cheap, recurring Wraith in order to survive. As you'll see down the road a bit, they rely heavily on their unliving ability. But I'll edit his to play cost a bit.

So let's show some more unliving tech. Oh, and I did consider making unliving require to discard a card of the character's culture, but that seemed like too much of a headache to be of any real use. I'm not sure it needs such a limited cost anyhow, since no other keyword has any inherent cost at all. But as we move forward into the culture, let me know if your opinion of unliving changes or if it remains the same and we can figure something out.

And yes, Dain, that snippet of lore is from RotK. It's in The Last Debate chapter, when Legolas and Gimli recount the quest to stop the Corsairs and the ensuing ride to Gondor.

[1] Hour of Need [Wraith]
Event • Fellowship
Spot Aragorn to play an unliving companion from your draw deck.
"‘Keep your hoards and your secrets hidden in the Accursed Years! Speed only we ask. Let us pass, and then come! I summon you to the Stone of Erech!'"
M1C112

Unliving - in case you're just joining us or if you've already forgotten - can shuffle a dying or discarded-from-play character back into your deck by discarding a card from your hand. Hour of Need retrieves them, or brings forth untested Wraiths into the fray.

Well, actually, I think now would be a good time to go ahead and spoil the Aragorn that goes with the new Wraiths...

[4] •Aragorn, Of the Grey Company [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 8
Vitality 4
Resistance 8
Ranger. For each unbound companion of another race you spot, Aragorn is twilight cost -1.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may play a Free Peoples [Wraith] card from your draw deck.
"‘But we must go in, and therefore the horses must go too,' said Aragorn. ‘For if ever we come through this darkness, many leagues lie beyond, and every hour that is lost there will bring the triumph of Sauron nearer. Follow me!'"
M1C21

Now, this Aragorn actually fits rather nicely into two different deck types in Lands of Shadow. On one side there's the Grey Company, which gets its strength from having many races in the fellowship; then there's the Wraiths on the other side, which Aragorn supports through winning his skirmishes.

And how can he win them without a whole mess of support cards? Well...

(0) Raising of the Grey Host [Gondor]
Event • Skirmish
Spot Aragorn to shuffle your draw deck and reveal the top 6 cards of your draw deck. Make an unbound companion strength +2 for each revealed unliving companion. You may play those unliving companions by discarding the other revealed cards (or return all 6 cards in any order).
"Then Elrohir gave to Aragorn a silver horn, and he blew upon it; and it seemed to those that stood near that they heard a sound of answering horns… No other sound they heard, and yet they were aware of a great host gathered all about the hill on which they stood…"
M1U29

Yes, yes, another [Gondor] card. But trust me, the only other [Gondor] card directly referencing unliving companions is the new Anduril, which won't be coming up for a good while yet. Raising of the Grey Host has the potential to get those recycled unliving Wraiths to the top of your deck with the shuffle, and even has the power to bring them 'back from the dead', all while throwing out strength bonuses! Quite a lot of options here, but I left the twilight cost at 0 simply because it's all up to chance whether or not the card will do anything. If you think it should cost something, let me know and I'll make the necessary change!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 10:15:43 AM by menace64 »

October 17, 2008, 01:00:30 AM
Reply #67

lem0nhead

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Unliving Champion Cometh. (10/16)
« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2008, 01:00:30 AM »

(0) Hour of Need [Wraith]
Event • Fellowship
Exert Aragorn to play an unliving companion from your draw deck.
"‘Keep your hoards and your secrets hidden in the Accursed Years! Speed only we ask. Let us pass, and then come! I summon you to the Stone of Erech!'"
M1C112

Spot would be ok surely?

[4] •Aragorn, Of the Grey Company [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 8
Vitality 4
Resistance 8
Ranger. For each unbound companion of another race you spot, Aragorn is twilight cost -1.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may play a Free Peoples [Wraith] card from your draw deck.
"‘But we must go in, and therefore the horses must go too,' said Aragorn. ‘For if ever we come through this darkness, many leagues lie beyond, and every hour that is lost there will bring the triumph of Sauron nearer. Follow me!'"
M1C21

Niiiiiice.

(0) Raising of the Grey Host [Gondor]
Event • Skirmish
Spot Aragorn to shuffle your draw deck and reveal the top 6 cards of your draw deck. Make an unbound companion strength +2 for each revealed unliving companion. You may play those unliving companions by discarding the other revealed cards (or return all 6 cards in any order).
"Then Elrohir gave to Aragorn a silver horn, and he blew upon it; and it seemed to those that stood near that they heard a sound of answering horns… No other sound they heard, and yet they were aware of a great host gathered all about the hill on which they stood…"
M1U29

Seems a bit too risky for use, the shuffle stops any kind of telepathy and its not even freeps card its just wraiths so i wouldnt use this.

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October 17, 2008, 06:34:06 AM
Reply #68

DáinIronfoot

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Unliving Champion Cometh. (10/16)
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2008, 06:34:06 AM »
Quote from: menace64
Now, two things must be further explained before I can move on with the new Wraiths. These guys aren't meant to be an expansion to the SoG/MD Wraiths; this new subculture is a rehash of the entire idea (much like the [Orc] or [Men] cultures). Along with that goes the entire theme of the set: to use none of the existing keywords with completely new cultures.

I am personally not a fan of most of the new cultures (Dunlendings, Southrons, and the Men of Bree all together in [Men]? [Moria] goblins and Sauron's orkish armies and Saruman's Orcs all together in [Orc]? WTF?), but I understand your point. Fair enough, and certainly not a point I will continue to harp on.

Quote from: menace64
In the end, I gave the Cursed Warrior a pseudo-enduring text because I think it helped him carry out the role of a non-unique fighter. I didn't give the same text to the other Wraith (nor will any other Wraith get that text) because it does stray too closely to enduring. Also the Wraith of the Twilight City needs to stay at [1] cost because I think the Wraiths will need a cheap, recurring Wraith in order to survive. As you'll see down the road a bit, they rely heavily on their unliving ability. But I'll edit his to play cost a bit.

I guess I'm the only one that thought the WotTC was okay as it was. :P I understand you didn't want to make enduring a theme with these guys, which is cool by me. I STILL say the Cursed Warior could just have enduring--the lone exception--and be fine, but no skin off my nose either way.

Quote from: menace64
So let's show some more unliving tech. Oh, and I did consider making unliving require to discard a card of the character's culture, but that seemed like too much of a headache to be of any real use. I'm not sure it needs such a limited cost anyhow, since no other keyword has any inherent cost at all. But as we move forward into the culture, let me know if your opinion of unliving changes or if it remains the same and we can figure something out.

You got it, chief! :up:

Quote from: menace64
And yes, Dain, that snippet of lore is from RotK. It's in The Last Debate chapter, when Legolas and Gimli recount the quest to stop the Corsairs and the ensuing ride to Gondor.

Aha. I've tinkered with [Gondor] Wraiths for my RotK set, but haven't narrowed down all the passages for good lore yet, so that's why I was wondering. Thanks!

Now, let the games begin....

Quote from: menace64
(0) Hour of Need [Wraith]
Event • Fellowship
Exert Aragorn to play an unliving companion from your draw deck.
"‘Keep your hoards and your secrets hidden in the Accursed Years! Speed only we ask. Let us pass, and then come! I summon you to the Stone of Erech!'"
M1C112

Since unliving guys can get back into the deck so easily, I think the exertion is fine. You COULD do spotting and make it cost [1] if you wanted to, though. I think either would be fine.

Quote from: menace64
[4] •Aragorn, Of the Grey Company [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 8
Vitality 4
Resistance 8
Ranger. For each unbound companion of another race you spot, Aragorn is twilight cost -1.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may play a Free Peoples [Wraith] card from your draw deck.
"‘But we must go in, and therefore the horses must go too,' said Aragorn. ‘For if ever we come through this darkness, many leagues lie beyond, and every hour that is lost there will bring the triumph of Sauron nearer. Follow me!'"
M1C21

Nifty. Too bad though Wraiths likely can't help you that turn, but on the flipside, that helps keep it balanced.

Quote from: menace64
(0) Raising of the Grey Host [Gondor]
Event • Skirmish
Spot Aragorn to shuffle your draw deck and reveal the top 6 cards of your draw deck. Make an unbound companion strength +2 for each revealed unliving companion. You may play those unliving companions by discarding the other revealed cards (or return all 6 cards in any order).
"Then Elrohir gave to Aragorn a silver horn, and he blew upon it; and it seemed to those that stood near that they heard a sound of answering horns… No other sound they heard, and yet they were aware of a great host gathered all about the hill on which they stood…"
M1U29

I'd like it much better if it were a unique condition that could only be used once (maybe twice) per turn...perhaps at the start of each skirmish involving Aragorn. OR perhaps make it an assignment event, thus allowing any companions you pull to fight and making it a much more useful (albeit still risky) card to use.
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

October 17, 2008, 07:51:39 AM
Reply #69

Gate Troll

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Wraith Ringleader. (10/17)
« Reply #69 on: October 17, 2008, 07:51:39 AM »

(0) Hour of Need [Wraith]
Event • Fellowship
Exert Aragorn to play an unliving companion from your draw deck.
"‘Keep your hoards and your secrets hidden in the Accursed Years! Speed only we ask. Let us pass, and then come! I summon you to the Stone of Erech!'"
M1C112

I'd make it [2] otherwise you could just keep bringing them back.


[4] •Aragorn, Of the Grey Company [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 8
Vitality 4
Resistance 8
Ranger. For each unbound companion of another race you spot, Aragorn is twilight cost -1.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may play a Free Peoples [Wraith] card from your draw deck.
"‘But we must go in, and therefore the horses must go too,' said Aragorn. ‘For if ever we come through this darkness, many leagues lie beyond, and every hour that is lost there will bring the triumph of Sauron nearer. Follow me!'"
M1C21

Nice. Would probably make a nice splash for a rainbow deck thanks to his first line.

(0) Raising of the Grey Host [Gondor]
Event • Skirmish
Spot Aragorn to shuffle your draw deck and reveal the top 6 cards of your draw deck. Make an unbound companion strength +2 for each revealed unliving companion. You may play those unliving companions by discarding the other revealed cards (or return all 6 cards in any order).
"Then Elrohir gave to Aragorn a silver horn, and he blew upon it; and it seemed to those that stood near that they heard a sound of answering horns… No other sound they heard, and yet they were aware of a great host gathered all about the hill on which they stood…"
M1U29

I think that's risky enough to stay (0).

Personally I like unliving, however its just a little too powerful. How about making it so that when an non-unique   
unliving wraith wins a skirmish you place him in the dead pile, or something like that. Basically, once the wraith has
done its job it's not needed anymore and go evaporate. However, if it dies before doing its job it still comes back.
Just some food for thought.

October 17, 2008, 11:14:03 AM
Reply #70

sickofpalantirs

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Wraith Ringleader. (10/17)
« Reply #70 on: October 17, 2008, 11:14:03 AM »

[4] •Aragorn, Of the Grey Company [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 8
Vitality 4
Resistance 8
Ranger. For each unbound companion of another race you spot, Aragorn is twilight cost -1.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may play a Free Peoples [Wraith] card from your draw deck.
"‘But we must go in, and therefore the horses must go too,' said Aragorn. ‘For if ever we come through this darkness, many leagues lie beyond, and every hour that is lost there will bring the triumph of Sauron nearer. Follow me!'"
M1C21
snazzy


(0) Raising of the Grey Host [Gondor]
Event • Skirmish
Spot Aragorn to shuffle your draw deck and reveal the top 6 cards of your draw deck. Make an unbound companion strength +2 for each revealed unliving companion. You may play those unliving companions by discarding the other revealed cards (or return all 6 cards in any order).
"Then Elrohir gave to Aragorn a silver horn, and he blew upon it; and it seemed to those that stood near that they heard a sound of answering horns… No other sound they heard, and yet they were aware of a great host gathered all about the hill on which they stood…"
M1U29
nice...though a tad length text wise...
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(after all, it's a CHARITY organization, I still have SOME principles, even having gone through Law School... :P),
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October 18, 2008, 10:30:01 AM
Reply #71

menace64

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Wraith Ringleader. (10/17)
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2008, 10:30:01 AM »
I'm not sure what to do about Raising of the Grey Host. I reckon I'll change it eventually. But I did change Hour of Need to [1] and spotting Aragorn, since I realized bringing unliving companions into play is a core mechanic of the new Wraiths and they need to do it easily.

Now. I keep saying these new cultures lack old keywords and that they have new ways to punish opponents. Without damage bonuses, however, it would be extremely difficult to do away with characters.

These Wraiths know how to get by! Today I'm showing 4 cards, but the first 3 are very similar.

[2] Spectral Banner [Wraith]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Bearer must be an unliving companion.
Bearer is strength +1 for each other unliving companion bearing a hand weapon.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘…and pale banners like shreds of cloud… Faint cries I heard, and dim horns blowing, and a murmur as of countless far voices…'"
M1C120

This weapon sacrifices a steady strength bonus for the potential of much more. But it's the skirmish ability that I'm wanting you to focus on. The two possessions below share this text. This is how Wraiths pile on the wounds.

[2] Spectral Horse [Wraith]
Possession • Mount
Strength +1
Bearer must be an unliving companion. Bearer gains flanking (If this companion is not assigned to a skirmish, at the start of another of your character's skirmishes, you may exert this companion to replace that character in the skirmish).
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘The Dead are following,' said Legolas. ‘I see shapes of Men and of horses…'"
M1U121

Nothing to comment on. It costs 2 because flanking is not a cultural staple for Wraiths. The Free Peoples player would have to pay a little extra to get it.

[1] Spectral Spear [Wraith]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be an unliving companion.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘…and spears, like winter-thickets on a misty night. The Dead are following.'"
M1C122

And the most basic weapon in the bunch.

I knew immediately that such a system wouldn't work if there weren't a decent way to recycle those possessions.

[5] •Twilight Host [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 11
Vitality 4
Resistance 5
Dominate. Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or King of the Dead.
Each time a [Wraith] possession is discarded from your unliving companion, you may exert Twilight Host to transfer that possession to another unliving companion instead of discarding it.
"‘There they stood silent, hardly to be seen, save for a red gleam in their eyes that caught the glare of the ships that were burning.'"
M1R124

Dominate. (A character skirmishing this character may not exert.)
This fella is a one-stop possession-recursion machine. Get him into play, and suddenly those possessions can start bouncing about the table, moving to the companions who need them at the right time. All you have to do is keep Twilight Host from getting beat up in skirmishes. Even then, though, if Twilight Host dies, use unliving to cycle it back into your deck, then use Hour of Need (or one of the other cards that pulls unliving companions) and you're right back into the game!

October 19, 2008, 04:22:18 PM
Reply #72

Gate Troll

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Re: Lands of Shadow - These Ghosts are Ghastly. (10/18)
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2008, 04:22:18 PM »

[2] Spectral Banner [Wraith]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Bearer must be an unliving companion.
Bearer is strength +1 for each other unliving companion bearing a hand weapon.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘…and pale banners like shreds of cloud… Faint cries I heard, and dim horns blowing, and a murmur as of countless far voices…'"
M1C120

Looking good. I'd probably take away the second ability as wounding should never be that cheap,
especially with your almost broken Unliving abilty. If you can keep resurrecting them their abilities should be rubbish to compensate.


[2] Spectral Horse [Wraith]
Possession • Mount
Strength +1
Bearer must be an unliving companion. Bearer gains flanking (If this companion is not assigned to a skirmish, at the start of another of your character's skirmishes, you may exert this companion to replace that character in the skirmish).
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘The Dead are following,' said Legolas. ‘I see shapes of Men and of horses…'"
M1U121

I'd make it [1] and remove the second text.

[1] Spectral Spear [Wraith]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be an unliving companion.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘…and spears, like winter-thickets on a misty night. The Dead are following.'"
M1C122

I think this could be left alone if you changed the Sword and Banner as well as Twilight Host. Otherwise, good basic strength bonus. :up:


[5] •Twilight Host [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 11
Vitality 4
Resistance 5
Dominate. Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or King of the Dead.
Each time a [Wraith] possession is discarded from your unliving companion, you may exert Twilight Host to transfer that possession to another unliving companion instead of discarding it.
"‘There they stood silent, hardly to be seen, save for a red gleam in their eyes that caught the glare of the ships that were burning.'"
M1R124

I'd change his 'Each time a Wraith possession is discarded from your unliving companion, you may exert Twilight Host to transfer that possession to another unliving companion instead of discarding it.' to 'Manuever: Play a [Wraith] possession on a companion from your discard pile.'


Way OP. Wounding should never be that cheap, pack four banners swords and spears and you have tons of cheap nasty wounding. 'Those discard to wound' texts combined with Twilight Host's recycling are insane. For example, discard Spectral Spear. Use Twilight Host to bring it back and discard it again. Repeat twice. That turns one [1] possession into a three wound machine. Not to mention Unliving. I'd probably change each 'Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.' to 'Skirmish: Discard this possession and exert bearer to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.' With the exception of the Spectral Spear I think the wounding should be way reduced
It needs to have at least a couple of modifiers. ;)

October 19, 2008, 08:05:09 PM
Reply #73

Thranduil

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Unliving Champion Cometh. (10/16)
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2008, 08:05:09 PM »
[1] Hour of Need [Wraith]
Event • Fellowship
Spot Aragorn to play an unliving companion from your draw deck.
"‘Keep your hoards and your secrets hidden in the Accursed Years! Speed only we ask. Let us pass, and then come! I summon you to the Stone of Erech!'"
M1C112
Seems fair enough.

[4] •Aragorn, Of the Grey Company [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 8
Vitality 4
Resistance 8
Ranger. For each unbound companion of another race you spot, Aragorn is twilight cost -1.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may play a Free Peoples [Wraith] card from your draw deck.
"‘But we must go in, and therefore the horses must go too,' said Aragorn. ‘For if ever we come through this darkness, many leagues lie beyond, and every hour that is lost there will bring the triumph of Sauron nearer. Follow me!'"
M1C21
Excellent (and obvious) choice of subtitle! I'm not sure [Wraith] need this much fetching, or is this designed to work with unliving? I might make it character in that case.

(0) Raising of the Grey Host [Gondor]
Event • Skirmish
Spot Aragorn to shuffle your draw deck and reveal the top 6 cards of your draw deck. Make an unbound companion strength +2 for each revealed unliving companion. You may play those unliving companions by discarding the other revealed cards (or return all 6 cards in any order).
"Then Elrohir gave to Aragorn a silver horn, and he blew upon it; and it seemed to those that stood near that they heard a sound of answering horns… No other sound they heard, and yet they were aware of a great host gathered all about the hill on which they stood…"
M1U29
I love this card - good job!

[2] Spectral Banner [Wraith]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Bearer must be an unliving companion.
Bearer is strength +1 for each other unliving companion bearing a hand weapon.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘…and pale banners like shreds of cloud… Faint cries I heard, and dim horns blowing, and a murmur as of countless far voices…'"
M1C120
Ah, so I can see this representing the fear inspired by the Army of the Dead. Nice.

[2] Spectral Horse [Wraith]
Possession • Mount
Strength +1
Bearer must be an unliving companion. Bearer gains flanking (If this companion is not assigned to a skirmish, at the start of another of your character's skirmishes, you may exert this companion to replace that character in the skirmish).
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘The Dead are following,' said Legolas. ‘I see shapes of Men and of horses…'"
M1U121
Yeah, good.

[1] Spectral Spear [Wraith]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be an unliving companion.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘…and spears, like winter-thickets on a misty night. The Dead are following.'"
M1C122
Also good, though seems very cheap wounding. I'd prefer some limitation on which minions it can wound, [2] cost or strength +1 (for a common, those seem to sit better). Also, perhaps the first one could be rare - it feels a bit like a rare and that makes a nice vertical cycle of possessions.

[5] •Twilight Host [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 11
Vitality 4
Resistance 5
Dominate. Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or King of the Dead.
Each time a [Wraith] possession is discarded from your unliving companion, you may exert Twilight Host to transfer that possession to another unliving companion instead of discarding it.
"‘There they stood silent, hardly to be seen, save for a red gleam in their eyes that caught the glare of the ships that were burning.'"
M1R124
I agree with GT up to the point that it seems to me that such easy direct wounding is more than powerful enough that it doesn't need such easy and powerful recursion - once you've packed 4 of each of the above possessions, you're already cooking on a lot of gas. If you're dead set (no pun intended :roll: ) on some recursion, have a much more one-off ability like "At the start of the fellowship phase, you may exert Twilight Host to play a possession from your discard pile on your unliving companion."

I have 2 generic points on the emerging Wraiths, first on Wraiths in general and secondly on unliving as a keyword:

1) Trying to make a re-hash of the Army of the Dead immediately begins to run into problems because players have expectations and preconceptions of what Free Peoples Wraiths are all about (enduring, threats) and so even though I know that these cards do not do this, I am still finding myself reading them as if they do. For example, I was looking at the Twilight Host and thinking "Great: more exertions". This is not a problem with your cards or strategies, just a problem of people's perceptions of them - lem0n ran into similar troubles when he posted non-enduring Wraith DCs.

2) From a practical point of view, unliving bothers me because it requires so much shuffling and re-shuffling of your draw deck. This may seem like a menial point, but I think a valid one if you approach DC-making from a "people will be playing these cards" standpoint (which, though obviously unlikely, is surely part of the point of making DCs). I think that I want them to go to some place outside the draw deck and discard pile, either removed from the game in some kind of "ether" or in the dead pile and have cards that play Wraiths straight from there.

Thranduil

October 20, 2008, 01:38:46 AM
Reply #74

lem0nhead

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Re: Lands of Shadow - The Wraith Ringleader. (10/17)
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2008, 01:38:46 AM »

[2] Spectral Banner [Wraith]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Bearer must be an unliving companion.
Bearer is strength +1 for each other unliving companion bearing a hand weapon.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘…and pale banners like shreds of cloud… Faint cries I heard, and dim horns blowing, and a murmur as of countless far voices…'"
M1C120

Ok doke.

[2] Spectral Horse [Wraith]
Possession • Mount
Strength +1
Bearer must be an unliving companion. Bearer gains flanking (If this companion is not assigned to a skirmish, at the start of another of your character's skirmishes, you may exert this companion to replace that character in the skirmish).
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘The Dead are following,' said Legolas. ‘I see shapes of Men and of horses…'"
M1U121

Dont like the horse discarding itself and doing a wound thing, makes no sense.

[1] Spectral Spear [Wraith]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be an unliving companion.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to wound a minion skirmishing bearer.
"‘…and spears, like winter-thickets on a misty night. The Dead are following.'"
M1C122

Borderline ok.

[5] •Twilight Host [Wraith]
Companion • Wraith
Strength 11
Vitality 4
Resistance 5
Dominate. Unliving. To play, spot Aragorn or King of the Dead.
Each time a [Wraith] possession is discarded from your unliving companion, you may exert Twilight Host to transfer that possession to another unliving companion instead of discarding it.
"‘There they stood silent, hardly to be seen, save for a red gleam in their eyes that caught the glare of the ships that were burning.'"
M1R124

Good because its his only purpose but as he has dominate i think 4 vitality is too much.



1) Trying to make a re-hash of the Army of the Dead immediately begins to run into problems because players have expectations and preconceptions of what Free Peoples Wraiths are all about (enduring, threats) and so even though I know that these cards do not do this, I am still finding myself reading them as if they do. For example, I was looking at the Twilight Host and thinking "Great: more exertions". This is not a problem with your cards or strategies, just a problem of people's perceptions of them - lem0n ran into similar troubles when he posted non-enduring Wraith DCs.

Im glad you mentioned this Thran thanks, as i was sitting here thinking, why does menace get away without being mercilessly criticised for taking a change in direction with a particular sub culture when i did?

m64, i dont know why, but with wraiths no one will let you alter their abilities without moaning. Everything else is fair game but nooooo wraiths have to be enduring apparently!

Personally i think theyre fine, if someone wants to use the enduring ones they can doesnt mean id overlook these its just another strategy.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 01:42:35 AM by lem0nhead »
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