Sicko

[FM]

EVERY system, and I mean EVERY, about ANYTHING, has flaws, has ups and downs. Thing is, the north-american healthcare system's flaws are OVERWHELMING, this is the major point he makes in the film. For instance, Public Healthcare in Brazil sucks. Badly. But in here, with all the problems you might point out, someone does not die because their insurance company denied to pay for their treatment and it costs 50,000 dollars, or is still experimental. And I think this is something to take notice.

[MR. Lurtzy]

Back on topic... I do not like Moore because of the way he perverts the facts, like with the cuban healthcare system. I guess I just don't like liars.

[macheteman]

SOP mentioned bias in documentaries. and yeah, that is another thing inherent in these types of films. EVERY documentary has bias, and takes one side or the other on an issue. EVERY documentary, by the nature of these films, takes a specific position, viewpoint, or argument on the subject.

[FM]

I'm sorry, how exactly did he pervert anything with the Cuban Healthcare System? My mother, father, stepfather, aunt, uncle and godmother are all doctors, so I'm kind of into it a bit due to being around them, and the Cuban Healthcare System really IS among the best on the planet (even if the country might have SERIOUS other issues), doctors from A LOT of countries go there to study and perfect themselves. I happen to have a friend who just recently became a doctor himself, and he also went there to study their system. Moore didn't lie a single bit about it, sorry to burst your bubble.

[macheteman]

FM, i'm assuming you are directing your reply to lurtzy, but in case it was to me, i want to be clear that i never said he perverted the facts in sicko.

-mm

[MR. Lurtzy]

From ABC:

"In a 20/20 report Stossel provided evidence that typical Cubans citizens receive poor health care, and only richer ones who can pay for the care shown in Sicko receive it. When Moore cited a United Nations report that contradicted this, Stossel replied that the U.N. merely repeated what the Cuban government reported, and suggested that the Cuban dictatorship is likely to suppress unfavorable information. Stossel also presented testimonials that lower Cuban infant mortality rates are due to pregnant women receiving abortions if the fetus shows any sign of problems, and that infants who die hours after birth are not recorded in mortality rates. When Moore claimed the C.I.A. corroborated his assertions, Stossel responded that the C.I.A. denied this, and that their data contradict Moore's assertion."

[AgentDrake]

From ABC:

"In a 20/20 report Stossel provided evidence that typical Cubans citizens receive poor health care, and only richer ones who can pay for the care shown in Sicko receive it. When Moore cited a United Nations report that contradicted this, Stossel replied that the U.N. merely repeated what the Cuban government reported, and suggested that the Cuban dictatorship is likely to suppress unfavorable information. Stossel also presented testimonials that lower Cuban infant mortality rates are due to pregnant women receiving abortions if the fetus shows any sign of problems, and that infants who die hours after birth are not recorded in mortality rates. When Moore claimed the C.I.A. corroborated his assertions, Stossel responded that the C.I.A. denied this, and that their data contradict Moore's assertion."

So, given both FM's information and Lurtzy's, Apparently the Cubans have excellent healthcare for those who actually receive it. Which makes it a great place for doctors to study healthcare. That doesn't necessarily mean the system is good.

I should point out that I know literally nothing about the Cuban healthcare system aside from what I just now read in your posts. I'm just trying to point out a possible reconciliation of the two bits of evidence. I haven't even read the first page of the topic, let alone seen Sicko or have any idea what Moore says in it.

[FM]

Well, like I said, every system hgas flaws, and I'm pretty sure what is shown in Sicko IS the best of the best. But about the mortality rate, and that healthcare is poor for everyone else, that does not proceed, at least not from what I've heard from some friends who actually lived there for some time. Also, respected medical papers here corroborate that the Cuban healthcare system is one of the best, and mortality rate IS pretty low, lower than Brazil and the US, as far as I can remember.
Lurtzy, I have to agree with you what Sicko shows is PROBABLY the best they have, perhaps even stretching it out a little, but that doesn't mean the "actual" reality is too worse. I still believe the movie raises a valid point, and seriously, as I said before, Public Healthcare in Brazil sucks, so to speak, but if a guy walks in the ER with 2 missing fingers, the doctors won't presente him with a choice of "Which one can you pay for?".
You can ask my fellow brazilians, I'll level with you. If a certain medicine is not within the Public Healthcare System's list, the government denies it, and you have to sue the government to get it, but once you do, you DO get it, no matter HOW MUCH it costs and if it is or not experimental (of course, provided there is no cheaper alternative with the exact same result, then you get the cheaper one). Of course, the government attorneys always say that "If we keep paying for this, we'll bankrupt the State, blah blah blah", but the best response I've heard so far was from one of my teachers, who happens to be a Judge (and so, gives away sentences contrary to the government as such): "They always say we are going to bankrupt the State. So far, I've NEVER seen or read, in all of our history, about the State ACTUALLY bankrupting over this, so, screw that, it's in the Constitution, they'd better abide by it!".