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Author Topic: Pass of Caradhras  (Read 7660 times)

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December 16, 2009, 04:37:11 PM
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TheJord

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Pass of Caradhras
« on: December 16, 2009, 04:37:11 PM »
Can I use Pass of Caradhras to play Caradhras has not Forgiven Us in the Shadow phase?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 06:43:55 PM by TheJord »
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December 16, 2009, 04:55:49 PM
Reply #1

MuadDib85

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 04:55:49 PM »
I would guess no, just because it is a manuever event.

December 16, 2009, 05:03:43 PM
Reply #2

chompers

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 05:03:43 PM »
i was thinking the same - no you cannot. I suspect timing is an absolute rule than cannot be changed by any other card.

but i can see how the card implies that you can. If an action can over-rule the timing of a card it has potential to trigger a range of effects on many other cards i suspect.

Interested to see what others think - because if you can - its time to look through all the cards and see what combos this may create.

December 16, 2009, 05:09:48 PM
Reply #3

Not a Zombie

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 05:09:48 PM »
I would say yes, think about cards like the red arrow, it allows you to play cards out of phase. so does the gamling and eowyn from bohd. Those aren't events, but I think it is still applicable.
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December 16, 2009, 05:10:50 PM
Reply #4

MR. Lurtzy

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2009, 05:10:50 PM »
From the Comprehensive Rulebook 4.0, page 3:

Quote
You cannot play an event during a phase that does not match its phase action.

December 16, 2009, 07:48:28 PM
Reply #5

jdizzy001

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2009, 07:48:28 PM »
Ah ha, so cards don't always do what they say they do.
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December 16, 2009, 08:00:40 PM
Reply #6

TheJord

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 08:00:40 PM »
Solved by Mr Lurtzy...

Will this tear the fabric of the space time continuum? ;D
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December 16, 2009, 10:55:54 PM
Reply #7

Alazzar

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2009, 10:55:54 PM »
I dunno, I still think the Red Arrow thing is a good argument.  And, as far as Mr. Lurtzy's research goes, do I need to quote the part of the rulebook that says when the rules and the cards conflict, follow the cards?  =P

December 16, 2009, 10:57:55 PM
Reply #8

ket_the_jet

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2009, 10:57:55 PM »
I dunno, I still think the Red Arrow thing is a good argument.  And, as far as Mr. Lurtzy's research goes, do I need to quote the part of the rulebook that says when the rules and the cards conflict, follow the cards?  =P

The Red Arrow is not an event though.
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December 16, 2009, 11:45:37 PM
Reply #9

chompers

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2009, 11:45:37 PM »
As far as I can tell, this rule serves no purpose other than to stop actions such as this. How else could you play an event out of its correct phase unless another card implies that you could.

So i think it is fair to say - no you can't.

December 17, 2009, 02:13:44 AM
Reply #10

Thranduil

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2009, 02:13:44 AM »
I dunno, I still think the Red Arrow thing is a good argument.  And, as far as Mr. Lurtzy's research goes, do I need to quote the part of the rulebook that says when the rules and the cards conflict, follow the cards?  =P
The key point is the Red Arrow does not play events out of phase, it plays companions and possessions - cards that stick around. Similarly you can play minions in the regroup phase (Spied From Above) and skirmish phase (Hill Clan) because they don't have particular phase words associated with them, whereas events do.

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December 17, 2009, 03:32:57 AM
Reply #11

Elessar's Socks

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2009, 03:32:57 AM »
I think for the most part, rules describe what you can do. Then where necessary, restrictions are made within this framework; for example, the Rule of 4, which limits how many cards you can draw in the fellowship phase.

So going by this:

- You can perform game text if the rules don't prohibit it. Example: Playing companions outside the fellowship phase. The rules don't prohibit you from playing them outside the fellowship phase--they just don't give you a built-in way of doing so.

- You can perform game text if it acknowledges somehow the rule that's being broken, or can only work with it broken. Example: Using Sent Back to play Gandalf when a copy is in the dead pile ("even if another copy of that wizard is in your dead pile").

That's the gist of it I think, though there are issues like O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! not working without the need for errata. But for this topic, IMO the wording of Pass of Caradhras is not enough to break the rule Lurtzy quoted. Play a weather card... provided there isn't a rule prohibiting said card from being played that phase.

December 17, 2009, 10:17:55 AM
Reply #12

legolas3333

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2009, 10:17:55 AM »
can we seriously be debating this?? there is no way to play a maneuver card in the shadow phase, can you use Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant Of Morgul in the shadow?? no! And it's not like you could use AWINL in the assignment phase.
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December 17, 2009, 01:53:05 PM
Reply #13

jdizzy001

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2009, 01:53:05 PM »
Havo dad, Legolas
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December 17, 2009, 02:10:26 PM
Reply #14

legolas3333

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Re: Pass of Caradhras
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2009, 02:10:26 PM »
Havo dad, Legolas
I wish he said something cool at that point in the movie that i could respond with
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