French X-List

[lem0nhead]

Ok to chip in my 2 cents, well where do i begin...

Ferny does not need x-ing if your concern is fights with the RB. However i agree Nertea does. He stupid and requires no effort whereas Bill does.

Lackey does not need x-ing though i understand why you have done. The Jords argument of xing Hate in that case isnt valid as there are very few if not none at all ways of recursing sauron events whereas there are loads of ways of recursing lackey in many broken ways which leads me to say i cant believe you have taken the smith off the list. Thats mental. If i had to campaign for just one card in the entire of LOTR TCG to be x-ed id pick MD galadriel or orcish smith.

Prize lagan is one of the stupidest most broken cards D made. Absoutely no thought went into it at all let alone enough attention to actually be culturally enforced or limited. Its power is broken beyond belief and should be x-ed purely because D f-ed it up let alone its ability.

The sites. Well, they dont bother me either way so no comment.

I would, finally, agree with Thran as the Great Ring is the daftest ring created. So abusable.

[alehaak]

ok guys, you've given enola enough crap already, so just shut up and let the french do whatever the heck they want. i would hate to see a contributing memeber like enola leave just because you aren't a fan of his x-list.

You got a point.

Their are other cultures that can handle Ferny not just Gondor. I won't go into it. Like TheJord, I think some of these x-listing are a bit sad. Glad I don't play in France and if a PC gets going and the French own the decisions I guess I will be forced to burn all my cards and play Pokemon .

And you got a point too!
Totally agreed.

[Braindamagedcarebearsrock]

Our play group has own x-list but i would like to say couple things about this.

Bill ferny is not necesary since it doesnt kill  ringebearer with ring of doom or players who use ring of rings ringbearer should be strong enough. shadowplay is really cheap way to get rid of ferny. no travellers in this land aragorn, thorongil , or even legolas, woodland or emisary exerts him (legolas makes exert before archery phase begins)

Mountain-troll: unban it and ban smith. since standard has lots of condition hate and mountain-troll is only good answer against it.

Why the faithful stone is not in x-list ? it basicly kills evilman, and orc shadows +it can be played in multiple freeps like rohan,gondor and gandalf ? errata didn't make it less powerful since now shadow needs pool to get minions through = less minions. and its not unique.

[Elessar's Socks]

At least they were able to settle on something and get some hard data out of it.

In Expanded, I guess at the minimum I'd:

- Weaken Ithilien Blade decks. Probably just boot Madril, Defender of Osgiliath.

- Weaken Troll swarm decks. Probably errata the Keeper, if neither the Keeper nor the Wargs deserve to be X'ed by themselves, and combo banning isn't an option (not too sure about the idea myself).

- Ban the Erkenbrand's Horn / New Chapter combo. Somehow.

Though even with that said, it's only the last I'm really sure about, because there are so many things wrong with emptying the deck of Free Peoples cards, at site 2, using a loop. For the others, it'd be great to see what decks have actually been winning high-level tournaments.

[FingolfinFinwe]

This is good discussion.. Makes me start thinking that we should get the PC stuff going again.

[leokula]

Although I don't play in France, I'd be OK with most of the list. Think lackey is indeed ridiculous, I'd have no problems with seeing him banned.

The only ever banned card i really didn't accept or agreed was demoralized... it was so OK before mountain troll and rapid reload, and then all of a sudden it was broken... very sad. I'd easily ban rapid reload and mountain troll since no decks rely on them, while rallying orc and orc lurkers became plain useless without demoralized. I'd be ok with banning of combos like rapid reload + demoralized or new wargs + keyward too. Although it's not common with cardgames, it's not common that the producer of the game screws up in the end either.

Apart from that I think it's ok... shadowfax is indeed a bit crazy and I don't miss ferny a tiny bit. Prized legan is ridiculously worded, so it's a shame, cause not that bad of a card.

[Tonio]

Hello everyone (this is my first post here!)

Actually this X-list has been designed by a small group of experienced players (including Enola and myself) for the French LOTR Championship 2007. I wouldn't say it is the best, but we just tried to prevent NPE'S and overpowered cards. All players in the team didn't agree on all cards, and we had to vote to decide! (I remember Bill Ferny almost got off this list)

Making an X-list is quite difficult, but we thought we had to do it as Decipher gave up LOTR all of a sudden, leaving the game in a f*** mess with their 2 last extensions!

One last thing : Doorway to Doom and Steward's Tomb were added after the 2007 tournament, as the  archery deck seemed way too powerful (and almost a NPE). Right now, after the 2008 tournament, we are thinking about X-listing Courtyard Parapet too...

I will explain the reasons for X-listing some cards, feel free to post any comments so we can change our mind! (but i must confess that our group allready talked about it for a loooooong time )

Cheers,

Tonio

[Elrohir]

Hi,
I hate x-listed card, because you can do nothing with them. If a card is unsuitable, the text should be changed, like erratas. This may confuse players, so I suggested, Decipher should take back these missprinted copies, and distribute new one to those, who had send cards in. This would be fair.

I do not like doctoring on lists and cards, unless we have not forged an international comitee, which would work great with the most important nations.

I have to agree, that "Frenzy of Arrows" need an additional errata! But it should be accepted by everyone. For example: cost 1. Add one to minion archery total, +1 additional for each follower...

[Tonio]

But why the #$&*@! did French People X-List... 

Moutain-Troll : its ability to get as many minions as you want from the discard pile (provided that you have enough pool) was very dangerous. We had experienced a deck focused on this card and everyone agreed it was overpowered.

Bill-Ferny : him + 2 * Gathering Strength can kill many RB at very early sites, wich we thought was a NPE

The One Ring 19R : such a good protection against swarms! We thought everyone would play it and that it would kill swarming decks.

At last, we chose to ban lackey and make orkish smith legal in order to see more decks, as we thought that without the orkish smith the culture got crappy.

Tonio

[Tonio]

If a card is unsuitable, the text should be changed, like erratas.

Actually, the first choice we had to make was "X-listing or errating?". Both could work, but we thought it was simpler to make a X-list  :
- People could be unaware of our erratas ("but this is written on my card...")
- Designing the new texts can take a very long time...

Tonio

[TheJord]

I am amused you banned Ferny because he can overwhelm the RB, and then ban the Ring that could stop Ferny haha.

[Elrohir]

That is, why it is so difficult to work together. My opinion is, although the ring is very powerful, cards like cavern entrance prevent using it. Bye, bye, ringbearer...

But I am happy, there are still people, who want to make the game better! Do not stop!! 

Elrohir

[Gil-Estel]

But I really think these things should be arranged at a local level. I mean be honest, when do you play? Maybe online, but also with friends. If you play on a regular base, come to an agreement with your friends about certain cards. In my case, our common interest in playing makes the game balanced. What fun is it to have such a OP deck and win time after time....Playing lotr is all about creativity and spending quality time with friends for all I care