The Last Homely House
Undying Lands => Valinor => Topic started by: hsiale on May 01, 2012, 04:40:01 PM
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Hi everyone
Recently MarcinS gave me league admin rights at Gemp. I am responsible for creating the leagues. I want them organized in a way so that everyone gets interesting competitive environment giving a lot of fun to all players.
1. Basic system
I wanted the system to be predictable (so you know what to expect) and low on maintenance time. This means that everything should happen at regular intervals. Here's what I've came up with (some of you might have already read that).
- each league consists of 4 series, a new league starts immediately after a league finishes,
- each series lasts 9 days, a next one starts immediately after one ends,
- you may play up to 10 games during one serie, you may not repeat opponents within a serie (you may within a league),
- a new league starts every 12 days, to have 3 leagues running simultaneously,
- entering a league costs 50G.
2. League types
There are 3 types available:
- sealed deck,
- constructed,
- collector's constructed.
I will start with trying to run one league of each type at a time. This may change if one type turns out to be a lot more popular.
3. Sealed leagues
Next 3 leagues will use rules similar to one we already had:
- week 1 you are given a starter deck and 6 booster packs from base set,
- weeks 2 and 3: starter deck of choice and 3 packs from expansion sets,
- week 4: some combination of packs.
King Block league will start 12 days from now (May 14th). It will be followed by War of the Ring Block and Hunters Block leagues. BTW: does anyone have starter deck lists (preferably for LotR Online TCG, but physical decklists will be OK as well if online are nowhere to be found) from sets 13, 15, 17 and 18?
4. Constructed leagues
Movie Block non-collector's league starts in half an hour. 24 days from now a collector's league will start. Its general theme will be Towers Standard, so most probably 3 of the 4 weeks will use the following formats:
- sets 1-4 with TS X-list,
- sets 1-5 with TS X-list,
- sets 1-6 with TS X-list.
5. Your feedback
a) most important - always feel free to ask questions, I have surely forgotten to write lots of important things here :)
b) as I've already mentioned above, I'm looking for starter decklists for Bloodlines and later sets,
c) league ideas - first (and most important now) is an idea for the 4th week of TS Collector's Constructed league. It not necessarily must be week 4. Remember that a collector's league should not have big card pool changes from week to week, so it must somehow fit the general league theme.
d) further league ideas - most important constructed, but sealed are also good (though they'll be needed a bit later with schedule for next 3 leagues decided),
e) anything other you see fit for this topic :)
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Currently active leagues
Movie constructed
Serie 1 : 02.05-10.05, sets 1-7
Serie 2: 11.05-19.05, sets 1-8
Serie 3: 20.05-28.05, sets 1-9
Serie 4: 29.05-06.06, sets 1-10
King sealed
Serie 1: 14.05-22.05
Serie 2: 23.05-31.05
Serie 3: 01.06-09.06
Serie 4: 10.06-18.06
TS Collector's
Serie 1: 26.05-03.06, sets 1-4
Serie 2: 04.06-12.06, sets 1-5
Serie 3: 13.06-21.06, sets 1-6
Serie 4: 22.06-30.06, sets 1-6, 9, 14 and 16
Leagues starting soon
War of the Ring Block, constructed
Serie 1: 07.06-15.06, set 11
Serie 2: 16.06-24.06, sets 11-12
Serie 3: 25.06-03.07, sets 11-13
Serie 4: 04.07-12.07, sets 10-14
19.06, War of the Ring Block, sealed
Serie 1: 19.06-27.06
Serie 2: 28.06-06.07
Serie 3: 07.07-15.07
Serie 4: 16.07-24.07
Leagues starting less soon, details in progress
01.07, Towers Block, collector's
13.07, Fellowship Block, constructed
25.07, Towers Standard, sealed
06.08, Movie, collector's
18.08, Standard, constructed
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For everyone's information:
Gemp-LotR League Prize Support
1. Individual win prizes
Each game won earns you a small prize. The prize depends on how many wins did you already have in a given serie. Prizes are as following:
1st win - a booster choice,
2nd win - a foil common,
3rd win - a booster choice,
4th win - a non-foil promo,
5th win - a booster choice,
6th win - a foil promo,
7th win - a foil uncommon,
8th win - a booster choice,
9th win - a foil common and a non-foil promo,
10th win - a booster choice.
2. Overall ranking prizes.
Here's the formula:
int count = (int) Math.floor((2 * playersCount + 24) / (position + 9) - 2.4);
if (count > 0)
count = 1 + (int) Math.floor((count - 1) * multiplier);
Where the multipliers are:
0.35 - for constructed leagues (excluding the current one)
1 - for sealed league
2 - for collector's constructed leagues
For those not used to such code: ;)
Take number of players in the league, multiply by 2, add 24. Also take your final position, add 9. Divide first number by the second, subtract 2.4, round down. Then subtract 1, multiply what you get by the multiplier (depending on league type), round down once more, add 1 (note that this sentence actually is doing anything only when multiplier is not 1).
For those not used to things I wrote above, I will add examples. But probably next week :) Now only two examples, which I calculated out of curiosity. Most probably I will finish Towers Sealed league 2nd out of 74 players and FotR Collectors league 8th out of 41 players. My overall classification prize will be 13 boosters for the first one and 6 boosters for the second.
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Do the individual win prizes start over each series?
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Do the individual win prizes start over each series?
"The prize depends on how many wins did you already have in a given serie."
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why is it written serie everywhere? this looks like a typo in english; series is never singular (where it would be sery anyway based on the ending).
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why is it written serie everywhere? this looks like a typo in english; series is never singular (where it would be sery anyway based on the ending).
Will be changed after restart, though "serie" still exists in the dictionary.com as a singular form of series, though seems to be obsolete.
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humm, looks like 1610-ish is where that dates from, by poking around elsewhere. Guess I'll eat my words, then, about the spelling.
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Got to be honest, the prizes kind of suck. I mean, why would I ever want to get a common foil--most of which sell for two silver--when even the worst rares sell for much more?
I mean, compared to the GCCG payout, GEMP really doesn't really support collecting sets or series. I kind of like the cash payout idea so that people can buy their own cards or packs and participate in more than one league at any given time.
-wtk
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yah i would suggest adding an EXTRA foil common to every non-booster pack win. the 2nd win of a week just seems TERRIBLE every time.
also i would consider occasionally still running a free league with less prizes.
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Like with the first Towers and FOTR Sealed, should the newer sealed leagues give you the cards?
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hey, coulda been worse. You coulda had your hopes entirely dashed by a foil version of a useless card.
Wait.
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Next sealed league (starting Monday) will be King block. Look at http://www.supercheats.com/pc/walkthroughs/thelordoftheringsonlinetradingcardgame-walkthrough01.txt to see decklists which will be used. As usual, week 1 everyone gets a starter of choice from set 7 and 6 boosters of set 7, next week set 8 is added (a starter of choice and 3 boosters), then set 10 in the same way. I haven't decided week 4 boosters yet - maybe 2+2+2 as before, maybe 1+1+1+2x Reflections.
Few questions to you so that I can see some opinions before making decisions:
1. What cards (if any) should be additionally given to everyone?
2. One of set 8 starters features Gondorian Captain. Should he be replaced with some other non-unique companion so that pulling Base of Mindolluin doesn't allow a filter (I think it will be possible to have 12-15 fortifications in a deck if someone plays all available)?
3. What boosters you think would be best for week 4?
4. Do you see any other problem that needs to be corrected before league starts?
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1- For the mount doom week, everyone should get a Sam. Else everyone will take the Sam starters.
I would avoird reflection pack, because of its random factor.
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the downside of that gondorian captain thing is that they give an absurd amount of twilight for site 4.
no reflections, it doesn't really fit with the rest of the block, imo.
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However I'd you give reflections as option for week 4 you can in good conscience provide everyone 2 Enquea and 1 Nertia from FotR. I think this would be GOOD for the sealed enviornment.
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In King sealed I guess something that helps with 9 companion hate, indeed like Enquea.
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OK, after reading all the suggestions I decided the following:
King Sealed League
4 series of 9 days and 10 games each, starting 14.05
Week 1 everyone gets:
- 1x starter deck from set 7 (player's choice),
- 6x set 7 booster pack,
- 1x Ulaire Enquea, Faster than Winds,
- 1x Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul,
- 1x Ruined Capitol,
- 1x Morgulduin.
Week 2 everyone gets:
- 1x set 8 starter (player's choice),
- 3x set 8 booster,
- 1x Osgiliath Channel,
Week 3 everyone gets:
- 1x set 10 starter (player's choice),
- 3x set 10 booster,
- 2x Sam, Needer of Vittles,
Week 4 everyone gets:
- 2x set 7 booster,
- 2x set 8 booster,
- 2x set 10 booster.
TS Collector's League
4 series of 9 days and 10 games each, starting 26.05
Week 1: Sets 1-4
Week 2: Sets 1-5
Week 3: Sets 1-6
Week 4: Sets 1-6, 9, 14 and 16 (Towers Standard plus Reflections, Expanded Middle-Earth and Wraith Collection)
Weeks 1-3 are standard format as it was during TTT Block release, for week 4 I decided to go for a new format to give a chance for new decks to be made :) Towers Standard X-list applies to all weeks.
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14-4 & 26-4 make no sense for dates. May is the 5th month in the Gregorian (Western Culture) internationally accepted civil calendar. Do you mean May 14th & 26th?
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He obviously was counting American style and meant the fourth day of the fourteenth month, which wraps around to February. He thinks ahead, this one.
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Dates converted to more popular formats :P
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Is it not possible that the promo card we can win in tournament be restricted to alternate image 0Pxxx cards?
Sealed starter cards or 14Pxxx/19Pxxx can easily be bought at the merchant, alternate image 0Pxxx can not, the price would be more interesting.
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- 1x Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul, is not working with King block, it wont let you play since you have a card outside of the block and it hasn't been added to the list.
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- 1x Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul, is not working with King block, it wont let you play since you have a card outside of the block and it hasn't been added to the list.
It has been fixed about 3 hours ago.
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For the movie block league week 3.
When you mention set 9, do you want to mean reflection or mont doom??
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Set 9 is Reflections. Mount Doom is set 10.
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Please change it back to one week events, it feels like forever to get to the next week of King Sealed.
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War of the Ring block league (constructed, non-collector's) starts in more or less two weeks. First 3 series formats will be:
- serie 1: set 11 (Shadows)
- serie 2: sets 11 and 12 (Black Rider added)
- serie 3: sets 11, 12 and 13 (Bloodlines added)
For serie 4, I want to strengthen FP sides a bit. So I want to add set 10 (Mount Doom) which contains many powerful FP cards. I'd like to hear your opinions on:
- should anything else be added (Reflections? Expanded Middle-Earth?)
- should some cards be banned for some or all series (Lady Redeemed? Demoralized? Orkish Smith? Final Account? Strange-looking Men? Courtyard Parapet? Something else? Please give reasons why you think so :) )
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First of all please no bannings. And I am unsure if Mount Doom really adds something to the free peoples. True that the set has nice cards, but most of them are rare.
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I am unsure if Mount Doom really adds something to the free peoples. True that the set has nice cards, but most of them are rare.
What's the problem with them being rare? It will be a constructed, non-collector's league, so everyone will be free to use all the cards, no limitations here.
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Sorry, I mistook it for WOTR limited. My bad.
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i keep getting an error for my week 2 king sealed deck, what card could possibly be a problem? i took the gondor starter both weeks (well pippin week 2 i mean)
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Gondorian Captain probably - to make FotR Enquea playable, I asked MarcinS to change games format to Movie (from King block), but due to this Movie X-list is in effect for those games. I already reported the problem, but I guess solution is more complicated this time.
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Gondorian Captain probably - to make FotR Enquea playable, I asked MarcinS to change games format to Movie (from King block), but due to this Movie X-list is in effect for those games. I already reported the problem, but I guess solution is more complicated this time.
Solution should be there tomorrow morning, as I need to restart the server for it, and usually there is less players in the morning.
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Any chance tournaments will be implemented soon???The leagues seem to drag out, tournaments could be over in a day :)
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I decided to give a hand and sent a post into social bookmarks. I hope the popularity will rise in.
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Any chance we will see long terme league?
Like movie block league for 2 months and a maximum of 70 games? (collector or others format)
or a league with series but all card are available for all league long?
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With each league I see that series 3 and 4 have less people playing. I'm afraid a really long event could go to close to no players near its end. Still, it's a cool idea (for example a league of 17 series going with Standard format all the way from set 1 to set 19), but I think it should wait. Wait till we play some more leagues and I know more about player number dynamics, and probably also wait till we increase overall player number (I have some ideas on how to do this and plan to start working on this soon).
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Maybe a league like that:
Serie 1 Set 1 to 10 available
Serie 2 Set 1 to 10
Serie 3 set 1 to 10
Maybe we will see more player since you do not have to change your deck in order to compete.
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Is it just me or has every single deck this week has Galadriel, Lady Redeemed?
-wtk
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Quite a lot indeed, but IMO far from all. I played 7 games and I think only 2 or 3 opponents played Galadriel and events to use her to discard conditions (I've seen some people using her as a free starting companion to kill if Castamir or some other big bad minion comes out at site 2).
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yah i came up with the idea of adding 1 set per week, but not every league has to do that. it would be nice to just have a towers standard league, 2-3 weeks of the same format. or a movie block league, 2-3 weeks of the same format. or a fotr block league, etc.
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The Collector's Constructed League that will start once current (TS) is finished will be Towers Block. Series formats for first 3 weeks: set 4, sets 4-5, sets 4-6. For week 4, to give incentive to try new decks, the format idea is "Towers Standard with no FotR" - which means sets 2-6. There are a few things I'd like to know your opinion on:
1. X-listed TS cards - which should be Xed in this 2-6 format as well?
The cards in question are:
- Flaming Brand,
- Filibert Bolger, WR,
- O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
- Aragorn, HttWC,
- Horn of Boromir,
- Saruman, KoI,
- Uruk Regular.
2. Should set 16 be allowed as well to add the twilight Nazgul/Wraiths deck into the mix (remember both Sam, SoH and Gandalf's Pipe will be out, so there won't be many ways to remove burdens)?
3. Current Collector's league is definitely the least popular. Do you think it's because of the collector's format? Should number of collector's leagues be decreased (to, let's say, one out of three constructed leagues instead of one out of two)?
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I'm not sure why this collector's league is so unpopular, other than people just may not feel confident in their collections to pay the $50 to sign up. Maybe entry fees could somehow be based on number of registrants? I don't know, its a difficult problem to solve.
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I agree that a constructed league with the same card pool from week to week would be nice. It would probably need to be a shorter league (2-3 weeks instead of 5) so that people didn't get bored.
That said, an interesting league could be:
Series 1: Sets 1-3
Series 2: Sets 4-6
Series 3: Sets 7,8,10
Series 4: Sets 1-10 (or something ... I'm less confident on this one)
Also, I think each series should be 1 week long, not 9 days. It would be easy to remember something like Collectors change on Mondays, Sealed on Wednesdays, and Constructed on Fridays, unlike the current version where there's no easy way of remembering when each series is going to start.
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I'm not sure why this collector's league is so unpopular, other than people just may not feel confident in their collections to pay the $50 to sign up. Maybe entry fees could somehow be based on number of registrants? I don't know, its a difficult problem to solve.
I don't think the problem is the currency. If someone does not participate in Collector's leagues, then the only expenses they have are other leagues - roughly 2/month (100G/month) and they are given 50G/week.
I think the problem is that people don't really want to play in an "uneven" - as they perceive the environment. They either want to have full access to all cards (non-collector's leagues), or equal access (sealed leagues). Thing is, this is exactly the opposite of what CCGs are.
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Also, I think each series should be 1 week long, not 9 days.
I really like the extra 2 days to get your 10 games in.
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So do I!
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I'm not sure why this collector's league is so unpopular, other than people just may not feel confident in their collections to pay the $50 to sign up. Maybe entry fees could somehow be based on number of registrants? I don't know, its a difficult problem to solve.
I don't think the problem is the currency. If someone does not participate in Collector's leagues, then the only expenses they have are other leagues - roughly 2/month (100G/month) and they are given 50G/week.
I think the problem is that people don't really want to play in an "uneven" - as they perceive the environment. They either want to have full access to all cards (non-collector's leagues), or equal access (sealed leagues). Thing is, this is exactly the opposite of what CCGs are.
I know this is anecdotal, but I'm not joing the WoTR standard league because:
1) Low enrollment
2) Even if I do well, I'm not going to get much in prize support with the .35 factor for booster prizes
If it was a 20G entry fee though, I'd probably sign up since I might get that back in prizes for winning matches. But maybe not.
I'll never sign up for an all cards league again, unless we have like 90+ signing up - because then I'll be sure to get my 10 games in, and will get decent prize support even with the .35 factor.
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"I think the problem is that people don't really want to play in an "uneven" - as they perceive the environment. They either want to have full access to all cards (non-collector's leagues), or equal access (sealed leagues). Thing is, this is exactly the opposite of what CCGs are."
I think the problem with collector's leagues is that there were all cards available from the start. The most interesting point about CCGs is the fact that you have to deal with the cards you get through boosters/starters and trading and improve your deck/s that way. When you can use all cards the chances of winning are way more ballanced in most of the games and most players want to win their games and that seems to be the reason why 90% of all players play the game even if it means, that there is less fun because everyone is playing the same deck. They will never join a league where they have to own the cards, because their chances to win are less, when they didn't focus on buying cards of a specific block.
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In the WOTR Sealed that is coming up, what decklists are going to be used for bloodlines starters, as as far as i can see, there are no Bloodlines online decks.
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They will be offline starters to which I added a few cards to make them 30/30. I will find the lists and post them here later today.
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Bloodlines starter decks that will be used during WotR Sealed League
Bloodlines Boromir Starter Deck
Ring-bearer and Ring
(1) The One Ring, The Ruling Ring
(1) Frodo, Protected by Many
Free Peoples
(2) Boromir, Doomed Heir
(3) Rally the Company
(4) Tradesman From Lebennin
(3) Heirs of Gondor
(1) Merry, Loyal Companion
(3) Hobbit Sword
(2) Tolman Cotton, Farmer of Bywater
(2) Armor of the Citadel
(4) Gondorian Blade
(2) Measure of Comfort
(2) Dagger Strike
(2) Faith in Friendship
Shadow
(3) Vicious Dunlending
(3) Cruel Dunlending
(2) Worn Battleaxe
(4) Stragglers
(3) Column of Easterlings
(3) Easterling Shield Wall
(4) Rampaging Easterling
(3) Crooked Townsman
(2) Bring Down the Wall
(3) Wrathful Hillman
Sites
(1) Fords of Isen
(1) The Great Gates
(1) Anduin Banks
(1) Valley of the Silverlode
(1) Trollshaw Forest
(1) Window on the West
(1) Helm's Gate
(1) North Undeep
(1) Northern Pelennor
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Bloodlines Arwen Starter Deck
(1) The One Ring, The Ruling Ring
(1) Frodo, Protected by Many
Free Peoples
(2) Arwen, Reflection of Luthien
(3) Lorien Protector
(2) Shrouded Elf
(3) Final Shot
(1) Rumil, Brother of Haldir
(1) Orophin, Brother of Haldir
(4) Blade of Lindon
(2) Hobbit Sword
(2) Measure of Comfort
(2) Farewell to Lorien
(3) Attunement
(2) Crashing Cavalry
(1) Kindreds Estranged
(2) Elven Bow
Shadow
(4) Orc Plains Runner
(2) Howling Orc
(2) Picket Denizen
(3) Prowling Orc
(3) Orc Strategist
(3) Orc Spear
(3) Scavenging Goblins
(4) Orc Skulker
(2) Strength in Shadows
(2) Underdeeps Denizen
(2) Always Threatening
Sites
(1) Caves of Aglarond
(1) Crossroads of the Fallen Kings
(1) Shores of Nen hithoel
(1) Caras Galadhon
(1) Old Forest Road
(1) West Gate of Moria
(1) Moria Stairway
(1) East Road
(1) Fangorn Glade
Other starters can be found here: http://www.supercheats.com/pc/walkthroughs/thelordoftheringsonlinetradingcardgame-walkthrough01.txt
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Thanks Hsiale!
Just a quick point, elven bow and dagger strike are not in WOTR block, is this intended?
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Is that possible to lower the game count per series? it is quite hard if you have familly life and all that to get more than 1 game per day... is that possible to lower it to 8? I would put it at 5 but for 7 days only.
anyway just my 2 cents
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Any news at all on when "on demand" or set up Saturday Tournaments will be possible? I would like to play in on demand FotR or TS tournaments with "my cards" as soon as practical
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Is it possible to turn GEMP into a APP for Smartphones?
Edit: i just played a game from my iphone. It worked okay. Perhaps a mobile website would be better
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I've added test tournament queue. If it's empty, it's not showing up, until you check the "Show all queues" checkbox. Once 4 people (the test queue size) join the queue, a tournament will be created with those 4 players, which is a single-elimination tournament. At that time the tournament queue should clear the players and be able to accept next 4 players.
The "Tournaments" tab shows a list of currently running tournaments and their current results. Once the tournament finishes, the results can be viewed by clicking on the "Load finished tournaments" button in the same tab. At this point, each name in the standings will be a link to that player deck, that was used in the tournament.
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any idea on the upcoming league?
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Definitely we will go down to 2 leagues running simultenously - one sealed (which is most popular) and one constructed - probably alternating collector's and non-collector's. As two most popular formats at Gemp are FotR and Movie, they will be used for next two leagues.
I'm also thinking of some general changes of the system, now that I've seen it running for some time. But I need also players' opinion. I'm currently preparing a poll I will release on the weekend and ask you to answer, when I have results, I will be able to design a better system.
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hsiale - will there be anything done to counter Snows in the upcoming FoTR sealed?
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http://www.ankietka.pl/ankieta/92998/gemp-lotr-leagues-poll.html
I started a poll, please answer, once I know what you think about leagues, I can make the system better :)
@Nitsuj: nothing will change from previous league. Do you have any idea of what could be done (I want to avouid simply giving out Secret Sentinels to everyone)?
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I think you just hope to pull Snows, and if you do that's probably 6 to 10 wins.
I don't know what can be done. Boromir's cloak send the fairest way to counter it, without crushing all shadow conditions. Maybe ban it?
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I've attached Gemp-LotR activity statistics from the beginning of the year. Games played are per day, players active within week of the day it is plotted for. Active players is the number of unique players that played at least one game within the period (week).
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So, does anyone else think that 129 registered players with with maybe 69 or so having 0 games played is a little fishy? I think some players are signing up with multiple accounts to get best chances for good sealed pulls.
Its kinda weird, because I don't see why you would do that. If it is to win better prizes, then great, your prizes went to a shell account. If it is to feel good about yourself, you cheated, so how good can you feel?
People are strange.
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So, does anyone else think that 129 registered players with with maybe 69 or so having 0 games played is a little fishy? I think some players are signing up with multiple accounts to get best chances for good sealed pulls.
Its kinda weird, because I don't see why you would do that. If it is to win better prizes, then great, your prizes went to a shell account. If it is to feel good about yourself, you cheated, so how good can you feel?
People are strange.
Yeah, thanks for the heads up. I've banned (again) some people joining the same league multiple times.
I think people do that also to increase the league prizes (based on number of players). This will have to probably be changed...
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I think people do that also to increase the league prizes (based on number of players). This will have to probably be changed...
Number of games played in a league could be a better "league size" measure to use when deciding prize support level.
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I think people do that also to increase the league prizes (based on number of players). This will have to probably be changed...
Number of games played in a league could be a better "league size" measure to use when deciding prize support level.
Then people will also falsify the number of games. I think the only solution is to have lower number of leagues (as you already plan) and fixed support, that can increase periodically, as the service usage increases.
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My two cents....
Maybe a player only counts as being in the league for purposes of quantifying total players if they have a game played.
Two - maybe for sealed leagues, a players account needs to be active for longer than 3 minutes before they can sign up, and any player accounts that have 0 games played and are older than 2 weeks, get purged from the system, so players cannot just create a bunch of shell accounts for an upcoming sealed league.
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My two cents....
Maybe a player only counts as being in the league for purposes of quantifying total players if they have a game played.
Two - maybe for sealed leagues, a players account needs to be active for longer than 3 minutes before they can sign up, and any player accounts that have 0 games played and are older than 2 weeks, get purged from the system, so players cannot just create a bunch of shell accounts for an upcoming sealed league.
This will not solve the problem, as people will just play one game with the fake account. It's better to make it pointless to do that, rather than make it more difficult.
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So what's next on the league schedule once FOTR sealed and constructed are done?
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So what's next on the league schedule once FOTR sealed and constructed are done?
Rumor has it King Sealed (which is now open for signups) and Movie Block Collector's.
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Well, I learned my lesson from the last King Sealed...don't pick the Rohan starter!
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For everyone's information:
Gemp-LotR League Prize Support
1. Individual win prizes
Each game won earns you a small prize. The prize depends on how many wins did you already have in a given serie. Prizes are as following:
1st win - a booster choice,
2nd win - a foil common,
3rd win - a booster choice,
4th win - a non-foil promo,
5th win - a booster choice,
6th win - a foil promo,
7th win - a foil uncommon,
8th win - a booster choice,
9th win - a foil common and a non-foil promo,
10th win - a booster choice.
2. Overall ranking prizes.
Here's the formula:
int count = (int) Math.floor((2 * playersCount + 24) / (position + 9) - 2.4);
if (count > 0)
count = 1 + (int) Math.floor((count - 1) * multiplier);
Where the multipliers are:
0.35 - for constructed leagues (excluding the current one)
1 - for sealed league
2 - for collector's constructed leagues
For those not used to such code: ;)
Take number of players in the league, multiply by 2, add 24. Also take your final position, add 9. Divide first number by the second, subtract 2.4, round down. Then subtract 1, multiply what you get by the multiplier (depending on league type), round down once more, add 1 (note that this sentence actually is doing anything only when multiplier is not 1).
For those not used to things I wrote above, I will add examples. But probably next week :) Now only two examples, which I calculated out of curiosity. Most probably I will finish Towers Sealed league 2nd out of 74 players and FotR Collectors league 8th out of 41 players. My overall classification prize will be 13 boosters for the first one and 6 boosters for the second.
Is the above still the prize support formula? Also, when determining player count, is it counting only players who have played in the league or registered for the league?
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Next constructed league:
1. Will start next week (more or less Friday)
2. Will use "My Cards" collection
3. Will have more series, but shorter ones (I want to see how this works out)
4. Will use Movie formats:
- serie 1: sets 1-7
- serie 2: sets 1-8
- serie 3: sets 1-9
- serie 4: sets 1-10 (full Movie format)
- serie 5: "Burn the Witch ;)" format - Movie with additional banning of 10R11 - let's see if she really makes that much of a difference :)
Series will be probably 6 days long with 7 games available per series.
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Next constructed league:
1. Will start next week (more or less Friday)
You mean, Friday, September 7th?
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So, I just signed up for the King Sealed, and pulled some pretty good Gandalf stuff in the boosters, so I chose the Eomer starter deck, because according to the deck list:
http://www.gondorian.com/lotrtcg/starters.php
It came with a Gandalf.
However, the one on GEMP didn't come with a Gandalf. What up with that?
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I dont trust that list, since its both below 30 on each side as well as shadow and free peoples having missing numbers. According to this link:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/921814-the-lord-of-the-rings-online-trading-card-game/faqs/39070
The Eomer starter does not have Gandalf.
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Starters used at Gemp are the online starters (made for LotR Online TCG). The list at gamefaqs.com contains ones up to Black Rider. Starters for Bloodlines did not have online versions and I have made them, lists are IIRC in this thread (and for sure on this forum).
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After WotR Block Sealed I plan to do a special event - a league using new starters made specially for it. For the site path I'm thinking about Multipath, allowing for most cultures getting their support sites. What deck types would you like to see available during such league (I think there will be 3 decks to choose from for series 1, 2 and 3)?
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I think we should have a deck for all major themes:
For Movie Multipath options include:
Knights
Dwarf Tank
Ring Bound Rangers
Rohan
Hobbits
Ents
Rainbow fellowship (Gandalf Ftts?)
Noble Leaders
Elf Archery
Elvents
Elf Telepathy
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What about a sealed league, multipath but you can pick any starter from movie block and any combination of booster packs you want from any block.
So, week 1 you could pick the Aragorn wingfoot deck and 3 FoTR and 3 TT boosters
Week 2 you can pick the Sam Great Elf Warrior deck and 3 RoE boosters
Week 3 you can pick the MoM Gimli starter and 3 SoG boosters
week 4 you can pick any combination of 6 boosters
Whatever/however you want to build your card pool. A league like this would have lots of variety.
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That's also true, nice, and also easier to control for Hsiale
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will there be any upcoming league that focus on set 13+???
since there are already some league for the first 9 sets....
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Problem with that is that not much people care beyond movie.
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Problem with that is that not much people care beyond movie.
No reason not to run a league though and let them eat their cake.
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After the current movie collector's league wraps up, what will be next in line for collectors/constructed leagues? What format will the next collector's league be in?
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I think next constructed league will be a non-collector's one and will use post-Shadows formats (we never had a league with them and some people play them). War of the Ring Standard, Standard, Expanded, maybe something else.
After this we'd have a Collector's FotR block league - this is one of two most popular formats on Gemp.
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What's the problem with them being rare? It will be a constructed, non-collector's league, so everyone will be free to use all the cards, no limitations here.
I have to admit, this confused me as well. I didn't know constructed was different than collectors, and figured the decks had to be constructed from cards in your collection.
I'm not sure why this collector's league is so unpopular, other than people just may not feel confident in their collections to pay the $50 to sign up.
That's pretty much the problem I've been having: The Gold goes really quick when you start buying cards, and I don't think I could construct a deck from the ones I've bought that would really stand a chance.
I don't think the problem is the currency. If someone does not participate in Collector's leagues, then the only expenses they have are other leagues - roughly 2/month (100G/month) and they are given 50G/week.
I think the problem is that people don't really want to play in an "uneven" - as they perceive the environment. They either want to have full access to all cards (non-collector's leagues), or equal access (sealed leagues). Thing is, this is exactly the opposite of what CCGs are.
True. However, IRL, those that were serious about playing the game would buy BOXES of cards at a time, not packs. At 50g per week, with no way to really increase that figure, it's just going to take FOREVER to build up a collection to the point that it's viable.
Got to be honest, the prizes kind of suck. I mean, why would I ever want to get a common foil--most of which sell for two silver--when even the worst rares sell for much more?
I have to agree. I suggest that every win get at least one booster pack. Maybe you don't get to choose what booster, but at least it's more cards in your collection.
I mean, compared to the GCCG payout, GEMP really doesn't really support collecting sets or series.
I've never played GCCG, but based on my experience with Gemp, I have to agree that the current setup is not conducive to actually collecting the cards. It's just too slow to build up cash and buy enough cards to make a viable collection.
At a MINIMUM I would strongly suggest that players be allowed to add their sealed deck cards to their collections once a league has concluded. That is how sealed deck tournaments worked in the real world, I think that's how they should work on Gemp. They were both a great opportunity to introduce somebody to the game with a level playing field, and a good way to build your collection.
Honestly, until recently I didn't even realize we DIDN'T get to keep our cards. Otherwise I might not have blown 50g on the league, and just spent it on cards I could keep.
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You used to be able to keep your Sealed pulls; I don't know why that changed. In the first FOTR sealed league, I pulled two twilight Witch-kings, and having them in my collection is pretty fun.
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You used to be able to keep your Sealed pulls; I don't know why that changed. In the first FOTR sealed league, I pulled two twilight Witch-kings, and having them in my collection is pretty fun.
That was before the introduction of currency and merchant.
Do you expect for 50g participation in sealed league to keep the 18 boosters and 3 starters worth of cards? And for the 50g participation cost, if you manage to win 50% of the matches (5 in each week) you will receive 12 boosters total (worth 120g) + foils.
Some people just either can't calculate or expect to be thrown free stuff at them at every corner.
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I'm fine fixing the stuff you all request in this thread (prize payout, prices). But so far, most of the suggestions here would ruin any game economy in a month and cause other undesirable issues. I've appointed hsiale and CoS to figure stuff out and come back to me with a suggestion, and I hope they will get there somehow.
Here is what I would like to achieve:
1. Choice of whether to participate in a league or not should be viable one. So if I don't like playing sealed, I should not feel obliged to sign-up anyway, to get the 18 boosters + 3 starters worth of cards at the price of 50g (5 boosters), as if I didn't sign up I would be at a disadvantage, compared to other players.
2. People should avoid signing up for leagues they do not intend to play, as it would artificially increase a final prize payout. The only way to prevent them signing up is the entry price. Once someone signs-up and commits to playing the games (and does reasonably well) he should be rewarded with product above the entry price.
3. The system should not require a special police task force to find and ban people who try to exploit it. As an example (that is often used in this thread), on GCCG you were given product whether you lost or won a casual game. If someone wanted to exploit it, he could just ask a friend and keep creating a new game every minute and immediately concede, and get all the free product he wishes in no time. Yes, I do realise it's impossible to create a system that is free of exploits like that, but the possible exploits should be either easily detectable or possible only on a small scale. For example in case of Gemp you are given only 10 games per league week, to limit the extent of a possible exploit. Also I have noticed some people entering a league with multiple accounts to inflate the prize payout, but I was quickly able to detect that and ban the offenders (about 80 accounts total).
4. And finally - people should acquire their collections slowly. I do realise it's a shocker, especially if in real life you were buying 2-5 boxes of every expansion to be able to compete in tournaments, but if that was the goal here - quickly give everyone all the cards they want, then having a collection would no longer have any point if everyone will have everything anyway. Unfortunately there is no way of modelling the distinction between casual players, who were buying 10 boosters of each expansion total, and hard-core players buying 5+ boxes in a free-to-play game. Unless you want me to start charging real money for extra gold, not that I would even want to do this for LotR due to Copyrights infringement. If you decide not to participate in Collector's constructed league/tournament due to card availability, and the fact that you don't have your full deck in your collection yet, please keep in mind that everyone else is in exactly the same situation as you are, so you are not at a considerable disadvantage here.
Please keep in mind the above points when responding in this thread and address them if possible in your replies.
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That was before the introduction of currency and merchant.
Do you expect for 50g participation in sealed league to keep the 18 boosters and 3 starters worth of cards?
Not necessarily. I might expect to keep the cards I got initially, though. One starter and a few booster packs.
And for the 50g participation cost, if you manage to win 50% of the matches (5 in each week) you will receive 12 boosters total (worth 120g) + foils.
Maybe I would be more comfortable with the process, if I understood it better. All I really know now, is that I can play a guy if I haven't already played them, and if I win sometimes I get a booster pack, but lot of times I get a cheap foil. Perhaps you could explain this process better, or direct me to a thread that would?
So, in your above example, if you play 40 games in a month, and you win 20 of them, you get 12 boosters?
Suppose you can't play that often? Suppose you can only play, say, 20 league games per month, and win half. 6 boosters? What determines when a player gets a booster?
Some people just either can't calculate or expect to be thrown free stuff at them at every corner.
It's not free, it costs 50g. I think the expectation is that when you pay to play in a sealed deck tournament, you are essentially buying the cards you play with. That's what most of us are accustomed to over the years.
I'm fine fixing the stuff you all request in this thread (prize payout, prices). But so far, most of the suggestions here would ruin any game economy in a month and cause other undesirable issues. I've appointed hsiale and CoS to figure stuff out and come back to me with a suggestion, and I hope they will get there somehow.
What about just allowing players to keep the cards they initially get, at the beginning of the league? That should roughly equate to the 50g price, yes?
Here is what I would like to achieve:
1. Choice of whether to participate in a league or not should be viable one. So if I don't like playing sealed, I should not feel obliged to sign-up anyway, to get the 18 boosters + 3 starters worth of cards at the price of 50g (5 boosters), as if I didn't sign up I would be at a disadvantage, compared to other players.
But if you do like sealed deck, but can't play 40 games a month and/or just aren't a very good player yet, the viable option would be to not join the league. Your primary goal here is to both encourage people to join the league, and also encourage them to play games, yes? I can understand taking measures to limit people who join and hardly play at all, but I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect players to play 40 league games a month. I'm curious: What percentage of league participants actually hit that mark?
2. People should avoid signing up for leagues they do not intend to play, as it would artificially increase a final prize payout.
Then perhaps the equation which dictates the prize payout should be adjusted, to only account for the number of players who have played a certain minimum number of games.
The only way to prevent them signing up is the entry price.
Why prevent them from signing up? That's just a symptom of the problem, you need to treat the cause. Just negate the reason for people to sign up and then not play. Once there is no advantage to sign up but not participate, people will stop doing it. As it stands now, 50g doesn't prevent a bunch of people signing up and not playing, because they'll just run you ragged creating fake accounts that give them 50g to sign up and then not play.
If people are signing up just to boost the prize payout, then make the prize payout dependent upon a certain minimum level of participation.
Once someone signs-up and commits to playing the games (and does reasonably well) he should be rewarded with product above the entry price.
For sealed deck, I think a participant should get product equal to what they spent to join, at a minimum.
3. The system should not require a special police task force to find and ban people who try to exploit it.
Agreed. So design the system in such a way that it is self-enforcing.
As an example (that is often used in this thread), on GCCG you were given product whether you lost or won a casual game. If someone wanted to exploit it, he could just ask a friend and keep creating a new game every minute and immediately concede, and get all the free product he wishes in no time.
Easily defeated: No product for losers, and some certain minimal time requirement, such as a game lasting 5 or 10 minutes before it counts.
Yes, I do realise it's impossible to create a system that is free of exploits like that, but the possible exploits should be either easily detectable or possible only on a small scale.
It might be impossible to build a perfect system, but I think you're selling yourself short. I think you can build a system that is nearly exploit-free, or at least would take so long to "grind" as to discourage most people from doing it.
For example in case of Gemp you are given only 10 games per league week, to limit the extent of a possible exploit.
How does that limit the exploit?
Also I have noticed some people entering a league with multiple accounts to inflate the prize payout, but I was quickly able to detect that and ban the offenders (about 80 accounts total).
Wouldn't it be easier to just design a system where a bunch of multiple fake accounts wouldn't affect things in the first place?
4. And finally - people should acquire their collections slowly.
I'm down with that. I just think the current system is TOO slow.
If you decide not to participate in Collector's constructed league/tournament due to card availability, and the fact that you don't have your full deck in your collection yet, please keep in mind that everyone else is in exactly the same situation as you are,
No, people who play 40 games a month and are above-average players will be building their collections at a considerably faster rate. Those who are skilled and able to play all the time will quickly outstrip those who are less skilled, and cannot play as often. This gap will only increase as time goes on.
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Maybe I would be more comfortable with the process, if I understood it better. All I really know now, is that I can play a guy if I haven't already played them, and if I win sometimes I get a booster pack, but lot of times I get a cheap foil. Perhaps you could explain this process better, or direct me to a thread that would?
Second post in this thread you posted this question in, here is a direct link to the post:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,7983.msg77873.html#msg77873
What about just allowing players to keep the cards they initially get, at the beginning of the league? That should roughly equate to the 50g price, yes?
Does it mean, that constructed leagues, where you don't get to keep any cards, the entry should be free?
Then perhaps the equation which dictates the prize payout should be adjusted, to only account for the number of players who have played a certain minimum number of games.
Then people will create accounts and "play" (create game and concede) the required minimum.
If people are signing up just to boost the prize payout, then make the prize payout dependent upon a certain minimum level of participation.
Yes, we are considering making a fix payout for leagues.
Easily defeated: No product for losers, and some certain minimal time requirement, such as a game lasting 5 or 10 minutes before it counts.
Sometimes you just kill your opponent on a move to 2nd site... should these games not count? And no, checking the progress of the game, and figuring out if a game was legit or not, is not an option.
How does that limit the exploit?
If someone creates fake accounts and "plays" against them in a league, the limit of number of games in a week he can win, and therefore get product for that, limits the damage it can do to the game economy.
No, people who play 40 games a month and are above-average players will be building their collections at a considerably faster rate. Those who are skilled and able to play all the time will quickly outstrip those who are less skilled, and cannot play as often. This gap will only increase as time goes on.
Yes, and that is what happens in every collectible card game, and I'm expecting this to happen, anything else would just seem weird and wrong. Not only that, but it's also unavoidable and the goal of the competitive game by itself.
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Second post in this thread you posted this question in, here is a direct link to the post:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,7983.msg77873.html#msg77873
Thanks, checking it out now.
What about just allowing players to keep the cards they initially get, at the beginning of the league? That should roughly equate to the 50g price, yes?
Does it mean, that constructed leagues, where you don't get to keep any cards, the entry should be free?
Hmmm. Not necessarily free, since like you said you can get cards depending on how well and how often you play in the series. I could however see making the entry fee cheaper for constructed, or increasing the prize support.
Easily defeated: No product for losers, and some certain minimal time requirement, such as a game lasting 5 or 10 minutes before it counts.
Sometimes you just kill your opponent on a move to 2nd site... should these games not count?
Okay, how about a certain minimum number of cards played? Or perhaps an either/or trigger?
And no, checking the progress of the game, and figuring out if a game was legit or not, is not an option.
Oh yeah, WAY too much work.
If someone creates fake accounts and "plays" against them in a league, the limit of number of games in a week he can win, and therefore get product for that, limits the damage it can do to the game economy.
How about incorporating a diminishing returns thing? Maybe front load it so the first few games you win you get packs for, but the more games you play, you just get foils and singles for prizes? Random foils shouldn't really affect the economy much.
No, people who play 40 games a month and are above-average players will be building their collections at a considerably faster rate. Those who are skilled and able to play all the time will quickly outstrip those who are less skilled, and cannot play as often. This gap will only increase as time goes on.
Yes, and that is what happens in every collectible card game,[/quote]
No, IRL collection growth is limited by how much money people have, not by how much they play or how good they are at playing. Certainly there is still a gap, it's just caused by something different.
and I'm expecting this to happen, anything else would just seem weird and wrong.
So, you think it's a GOOD thing that a minority of players should be able to build their collections much faster than the majority?
Not only that, but it's also unavoidable and the goal of the competitive game by itself.
I think the game is at its best when the playing field is as level as it can be. Ideally that would mean that the majority of people would be able to increase their collections at about the same rate, and that even the "elite" wouldn't be able to increase their collections much faster than that. Law of diminishing returns.
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(I will reply to everything here, splitting discussion between two threads isn't very comfortable)
Every game available during the course of a month? How often do you expect your players to be on their computers, and not working at jobs or taking care of other real-life things?
A league is usually 40 games available during 36 days. This is barely over one game daily - is this so much commitment? A game takes usually 30 minutes. Of course things get harder if you want to play casual games as well - I've been on the receiving end of this lately, I think during last 3 months I've played just a few casual games, practically playing only sealed leagues (because sealed is my favourite format). If I preferred playing casually, I'd skip the leagues. And if someone has no time for even one game a day, then probably a league indeed is not the optimal way to increase collection size. On the other hand if you don't play leagues, in particular you don't play collector's leagues, so having a collection of strong cards is not so important.
That's great IF you have the time to play that many games, AND you actually have a halfway decent win-rate. Again, not really conducive to players who are new to the game, who are still learning.
Even playing 9 games each series and winning only one of them should give approx 12 booster packs as total prize support. Which is over twice as much as you can buy from merchant for 50G sign up fee.
The end result is that better players build their collections more, while players who aren't so good may not build their collections much at all. If anything, it seems like this would create more and more of a division for collected league play, as only the better players have a decent pool of cards to draw from.
With RL money taken out of the equation, I see just two things left that can be rewarded with cards - skill and time. So they have to be rewarded.
New players should probably stick to leagues that give everyone equal access to cards (majority of them do so, and probably once tournaments are introduced all leagues will use either "All Cards" or "Sealed Deck" format, with "My Cards" format available for tournaments together with "All Cards" and "Draft"). Those leagues, together with casual games, are great to learn the game. I feel a player completely new to the game will still need less time to get a top level deck than to become a highly skilled player. Of course there is a problem for good players who learned the game elsewhere - but those can perform in "Sealed" and "All Cards" events right from the start, allowing them to get competitive "My Cards" decks faster.
and it's going to be ages before my collection would be ready to join a collected format league
I'm not sure what "ages" means for you. I checked how much cards from two of my decks are worth (decks to use in casual play, not ones I have collected). One of them was Dwarves/Morcs deck, full of very expensive cards (blue ring, Durin III, 2x Ring of Fury, 3x Blood Runs Chill, 3x Dwarven Bracers, 4x Morgul Brute, 3x Cantea FTW, 2x Enquea LOM, Ithil Stone and so on). Even this deck costed a bit less that 1000 gold. Which means you can build it in less than 5 months even without playing a single league game, just collecting gold you get each week. But this is quite expensive deck. The other one, using Elven Telepathy/Roaming Sauron Orcs, costed below 600 gold, so it's possible to get it way faster.
your system is designed to reward above average players, while punishing average and below-average players. It also handicaps people who are simply not able to play in the league 40-some times per month. The long-term end result of such a system, is one where the best players also have the most cards, and will be able to shut out newer players or players who are still developing their skills. The only level playing field for those players would be a 50g sealed deck league where they don't get to keep their cards afterwards
Not the only one - there are also "All Cards" leagues and casual games. Players who can't play a 40 games league should not worry about being competitive in collector's environment anyway - as casual games always allow "All Cards". As I already wrote, with RL money out, only things that can be rewarded are time and skill. And those rewards are limited precisely to allow new players to catch up - not instantly, but gradually, together with their skill level increase.
How about incorporating a diminishing returns thing?
This is how I designed the system. There are 5 booster packs to get and they are available for wins #1, 3, 5, 8 and 10. Winning half of your games gives you 60% of the boosters.
I think the game is at its best when the playing field is as level as it can be. Ideally that would mean that the majority of people would be able to increase their collections at about the same rate, and that even the "elite" wouldn't be able to increase their collections much faster than that.
Such system is OK when all participants join at roughly the same time, which is not the case. I have joined Gemp during first beta tests in summer 2011 and played my first league 10 months ago. People joining now would never make up the difference if card getting pace was more or less constant for everyone. Now, if they are better than me, they get more cards and collection difference is becoming smaller.
For sealed deck, I think a participant should get product equal to what they spent to join, at a minimum.
BTW, how many boosters did you receive as overall sealed league prize? My guess would be two or three, adding three you got for single game wins, it seems that you actually got the sign up fee's worth in boosters, even playing approx half of the games and having win rate of 24%. I don't think a league should be a sure way of getting gold you paid back, as then everyone would have to sign up for every league available, but as you see, if you play at least some games, it's not hard to get your money back.
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A league is usually 40 games available during 36 days. This is barely over one game daily - is this so much commitment? A game takes usually 30 minutes.
Well, looking at my stats for the past month's King Sealed, it looks like I played a total of 16 games, with an Opp. Win % of 55.5%, total of 21 points, overall rank of 92. I played 5 games in Series 1 (Opp. Win % of 54.5%), 2 games in series 2 (55%), 6 games in series 3 (62.5%), and 3 games in Series 4 (46.7%). So, I played an average of 4 games per week within that particular league.
Of course things get harder if you want to play casual games as well
Which I do. To me, it gets a little monotonous playing only one format all the time for a whole month, especially in the relatively limited environment of a sealed deck scenario.
- I've been on the receiving end of this lately, I think during last 3 months I've played just a few casual games, practically playing only sealed leagues (because sealed is my favourite format).
How many league games per week do you play on average? Do you think that your activity is typical, or do you feel you are more active than the average player?
If I preferred playing casually, I'd skip the leagues. And if someone has no time for even one game a day, then probably a league indeed is not the optimal way to increase collection size. On the other hand if you don't play leagues, in particular you don't play collector's leagues, so having a collection of strong cards is not so important.
Eventually I would like to play in some collector's leagues. I just don't relish the prospect of waiting 5 months to be able to do that... and even then it depends on whether the format I invested my collecting in, is the one that happens to be supported by a league.
Even playing 9 games each series and winning only one of them should give approx 12 booster packs as total prize support. Which is over twice as much as you can buy from merchant for 50G sign up fee.
I don't think that's typical, though. In fact, looking over the data for the last King Sealed league, tossing out those who did not play any games, it looks like those who played, played an average of 4.7 games per series.
With RL money taken out of the equation, I see just two things left that can be rewarded with cards - skill and time. So they have to be rewarded.
Sure. But there are ways to reward skill and time without so dramatically increasing the collecting gap between those who have much, and those who have little.
I'm not sure what "ages" means for you.
I'd say that 5 months seems like a very long time to build one viable deck that is only legal for certain formats.
I checked how much cards from two of my decks are worth (decks to use in casual play, not ones I have collected). One of them was Dwarves/Morcs deck, full of very expensive cards (blue ring, Durin III, 2x Ring of Fury, 3x Blood Runs Chill, 3x Dwarven Bracers, 4x Morgul Brute, 3x Cantea FTW, 2x Enquea LOM, Ithil Stone and so on). Even this deck costed a bit less that 1000 gold. Which means you can build it in less than 5 months even without playing a single league game, just collecting gold you get each week. But this is quite expensive deck. The other one, using Elven Telepathy/Roaming Sauron Orcs, costed below 600 gold, so it's possible to get it way faster.
your system is designed to reward above average players, while punishing average and below-average players. It also handicaps people who are simply not able to play in the league 40-some times per month. The long-term end result of such a system, is one where the best players also have the most cards, and will be able to shut out newer players or players who are still developing their skills. The only level playing field for those players would be a 50g sealed deck league where they don't get to keep their cards afterwards
Not the only one - there are also "All Cards" leagues and casual games.
True. Although a veteran player's superior knowledge of that large card pool will generally trump a newb who has access to the same pool.
Players who can't play a 40 games league should not worry about being competitive in collector's environment anyway
At the rate average players play, it seems like it's going to be a very long time indeed before the vast majority of us could be competitive in the collector's environment.
How about incorporating a diminishing returns thing?
This is how I designed the system. There are 5 booster packs to get and they are available for wins #1, 3, 5, 8 and 10. Winning half of your games gives you 60% of the boosters.[/quote]
What about front-loading that so that you get boosters for the first 5 wins, and individual cards for wins 6-10? That would enable the average 4.7%er to keep up with those who can play more often, product-wise. Otherwise, the system dramatically favors those who simply have a lot of time on their hands.
Such system is OK when all participants join at roughly the same time, which is not the case. I have joined Gemp during first beta tests in summer 2011 and played my first league 10 months ago. People joining now would never make up the difference if card getting pace was more or less constant for everyone. Now, if they are better than me, they get more cards and collection difference is becoming smaller.
But you play twice as often as they do. They would have to win twice as much as you do, just to keep up with the amount of product you're getting. That's because the current system favors those who can play the full 40 games, and from the data I analyzed, that is a minority by far.
I understand that things will never be totally equal, but I think it would be better to at least try to minimize how unequal things can be. I think we all agree on that point.
BTW, how many boosters did you receive as overall sealed league prize?
Sorry, I didn't keep up with that at the time. Maybe you can tell based on the data I provided?
I don't think a league should be a sure way of getting gold you paid back,
Maybe not. But I think it should be geared to at least give a slight profit to those who play at an average rate, with an average win percentage. Why as slight profit? Because it takes a lot more effort to play in a league, than to just go into the merchant and click on stuff. I think it's better for the Gemp community to encourage more league participation as well.
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Here's the solution: play more often. Set aside more time to playing league games.
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i'm with bib
the system is designed to have checks & balances otherwise the economy will collapse
So, obviously someone who has more time to grind leagues or fleece the AI merchant with trade ups will do better than someone who only plays on Saturday Morning.
Seriously, this is the same way it is in real life.
And unlike LotRO where people actually had to pay REAL $$$ to have ANY CARDS AT ALL to play with GEMP lets you play in all formats casually with ALL CARDS available to you. Seriously, it can't get better than that... ever. I know, i probably spent well over a $1,000 USD on LotRO. For GEMP my cash outlay has been about $50 for two boxes of Fellowship Draft Packs so I could give card lists to MarcinS. Drafting on GEMP will be the Cherry on the TOP of one of the premium free CCG online sites!
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I have the Fellowship Draft Pack and Towers Draft Pack lists, deconstructed from back in the day. I hope they're the same as those from CoS!
PM me if you want them.
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The multipath sealed league project is slowly taking shape. I hope to have all decks needed ready next week so that there's enough time to add them to the server.
I plan to make 9 decks, so that 3 are available to choose from each of the first 3 series. In each triple one deck will use FotR site path, one will use TTT and one will use King.
Here's one deck I have ready now. It features Rohan/Gondor fellowship and mixed Orcs/Shelob shadow. What do you think about this one?
Ring-bearer 2C102 • Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
The One Ring 1C2 • The One Ring, The Ruling Ring
Adventure Deck
1 6U116 Westfold
2 4U333 Plains of Rohan Camp
3 4U339 Stables
4 4U344 Westemnet Hills
5 4U350 Hornburg Courtyard
6 4U353 Great Hall
7 5U118 Hornburg Wall
8 4U359 Wizard's Vale
9 4U363 Palantir Chamber
Free Peoples Draw Deck
2x 7C86 • Denethor, Wizened Steward
2x 1P365 • Aragorn, King in Exile
2x 4C266 • Eomer, Sister-son of Theoden
2x 7C229 • Eowyn, Restless Maiden
1x 4C117 • Faramir, Son of Denethor
1x 1U97 • Boromir, Son of Denethor
1x 4U285 • Leod, Westfold Herdsman
1x 4U295 • Weland, Smith of the Riddermark
1x 4C281 • Hlafwine, Village Farmhand
1x 4C277 • Guma, Plains Farmer
2x 4C287 Rider's Mount
1x 4C283 Horse of Rohan
1x 4U263 • Brego
1x 4U268 • Eomer's Spear
1x 1U112 • Ranger's Sword
2x 1C299 Hobbit Sword
1x 8U42 A Path Appointed
1x 8U86 Doom Drove Them
1x 6C97 • We Left None Alive
3x 4U282 An Honorable Charge
2x 4U123 Hard Choice
Free Peoples Total 30
Shadow Draw Deck
2x 8U23 Larder
2x 8C28 Spider Poison
2x 8C30 Web
3x 8C26 • Shelob, Last Child of Ungoliant
1x 5C24 • Gollum, Nasty Treacherous Creature
1x 6C40 • Gollum, Old Villain
1x 7C59 • Gollum, Vile Creature
1x 10C24 • Unabated in Malice
1x 10U22 Reclaim the Precious
1x 5C30 We Must Have It
1x 7C75 Sweeter Meats
2x 3U58 Isengard Servant
3x 1C176 Goblin Marksman
2x 2C90 Orc Taskmaster
2x 8U97 Gorgoroth Breaker
1x 1U260 The Number Must Be Few
2x 8C75 Morgul Creeper
2x 10C55 Cirith Ungol Soldier
Shadow Total 30
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I was thinking that a no-rares league might be a good idea to try. We could start with fellowship block for the first series, then Tower standard, then movie block.
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The multipath sealed league project is slowly taking shape. I hope to have all decks needed ready next week so that there's enough time to add them to the server.
I plan to make 9 decks, so that 3 are available to choose from each of the first 3 series. In each triple one deck will use FotR site path, one will use TTT and one will use King.
Here's one deck I have ready now. It features Rohan/Gondor fellowship and mixed Orcs/Shelob shadow. What do you think about this one?
Ring-bearer 2C102 • Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
The One Ring 1C2 • The One Ring, The Ruling Ring
Adventure Deck
1 6U116 Westfold
2 4U333 Plains of Rohan Camp
3 4U339 Stables
4 4U344 Westemnet Hills
5 4U350 Hornburg Courtyard
6 4U353 Great Hall
7 5U118 Hornburg Wall
8 4U359 Wizard's Vale
9 4U363 Palantir Chamber
Free Peoples Draw Deck
2x 7C86 • Denethor, Wizened Steward
2x 1P365 • Aragorn, King in Exile
2x 4C266 • Eomer, Sister-son of Theoden
2x 7C229 • Eowyn, Restless Maiden
1x 4C117 • Faramir, Son of Denethor
1x 1U97 • Boromir, Son of Denethor
1x 4U285 • Leod, Westfold Herdsman
1x 4U295 • Weland, Smith of the Riddermark
1x 4C281 • Hlafwine, Village Farmhand
1x 4C277 • Guma, Plains Farmer
2x 4C287 Rider's Mount
1x 4C283 Horse of Rohan
1x 4U263 • Brego
1x 4U268 • Eomer's Spear
1x 1U112 • Ranger's Sword
2x 1C299 Hobbit Sword
1x 8U42 A Path Appointed
1x 8U86 Doom Drove Them
1x 6C97 • We Left None Alive
3x 4U282 An Honorable Charge
2x 4U123 Hard Choice
Free Peoples Total 30
Shadow Draw Deck
2x 8U23 Larder
2x 8C28 Spider Poison
1x 8C30 Web
3x 8C26 • Shelob, Last Child of Ungoliant
1x 5C24 • Gollum, Nasty Treacherous Creature
1x 6C40 • Gollum, Old Villain
1x 7C59 • Gollum, Vile Creature
1x 10C24 • Unabated in Malice
1x 10U22 Reclaim the Precious
2x 5C30 We Must Have It
1x 7C75 Sweeter Meats
2x 3U58 Isengard Servant
3x 1C176 Goblin Marksman
2x 2C90 Orc Taskmaster
2x 8U97 Gorgoroth Breaker
1x 1U260 The Number Must Be Few
2x 8C75 Morgul Creeper
2x 10C55 Cirith Ungol Soldier
Shadow Total 30
seems wrong to me to only have one copy of web in the deck. If shadow lucks into getting it early, the tempo of the game is changed then if web is buried in their deck. For a more consistent play experience, I think it should have at least 2 webs.
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Shelob deck:
+1 Web
-1 We Must Have It
Was thinking about 3rd Web, but that could have made the deck to reliable. There is a reason why the shadow side from Sam Mount Doom starter has only two copies of Rank and File.
One more deck I made is Rohandalf/Easterlings on King sitepath. Those two will most probably be available in the same week, as otherwise I feel having both could turn out too good.
Ring-bearer 0P67 • Frodo, Mr. Underhill
The One Ring 1C2 • The One Ring, The Ruling Ring
Adventure Deck
1 7U330 Edoras Hall
2 7U337 West Road
3 7U339 Hall of the Kings
4 10U118 Pelennor Prairie
5 7U345 Pelennor Flat
6 7U348 Minas Tirith Fourth Circle
7 7U355 Ruined Capitol
8 7U356 Cross Roads
9 7U363 Slag Mounds
Free Peoples Draw Deck
2x 4C270 • Eowyn, Lady of Rohan
1x 8C87 • Eomer, Keeper of Oaths
2x 7U254 • Theoden, Leader of Spears
1x 7U224 • Elfhelm, Marshal of Rohan
1x 7C225 Elite Rider
3x 4C90 • Gandalf, The White Wizard
2x 1C299 Hobbit Sword
1x 1C304 Noble Intentions
2x 4C102 Task Was Not Done
2x 4C105 Under the Living Earth
2x 7U42 King's Advisor
3x 7C40 Have Patience
1x 10C16 Gathering Wind
1x 4U280 • Herugrim
1x 4U263 • Brego
2x 4C291 Sword of Rohan
2x 7U231 Fey He Seemed
Free Peoples Total 30
Shadow Draw Deck
3x 4C228 Easterling Lieutenant
3x 4C226 Easterling Guard
2x 4C224 Easterling Axeman
2x 4C227 Easterling Infantry
3x 10C41 • Easterling Pillager
2x 7C142 Easterling Blademaster
2x 7C141 Easterling Attacker
2x 7C140 Easterling Assailant
2x 7C139 Easterling Aggressor
2x 6U79 Easterling Polearm
2x 4C239 Men of Rhun
2x 4C235 Gathering to the Summons
1x 4C260 Whirling Strike
2x 7C173 War Towers
Shadow Total 30
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And the third deck: FotR block sitepath, [Elven] archery with Uruk trackers.
It's quite likely that those 3 will be week 1 choices. So if you see any balance issues between them, please let me know. And also any other comments are welcome :)
I went a bit out of Movie block with this deck. Arwen (and Frodo in the previous deck) are here because I want those promos to see some play (I'm thinking about replacing The White Wizard with Gandalf, Stormcrow as well, what's your opinion on this?). I also added Rumil because there are not many good non-rare [Elven] companions in Movie block sets.
Ring-bearer 10P121 • Frodo, Resolute Hobbit
The One Ring 1C2 • The One Ring, The Ruling Ring
Adventure Deck
1 1U324 The Prancing Pony
2 1U332 Midgewater Marshes
3 3U119 House of Elrond
4 2C119 Hollin
5 1C349 The Bridge of Khazad-dum
6 1U352 Lothlorien Woods
7 3C118 The Great River
8 1U358 Pillars of the Kings
9 1U361 Slopes of Amon Hen
Free Peoples Draw Deck
1x 0P63 • Arwen, Maiden of Rivendell
2x 1U48 • Haldir, Elf of the Golden Wood
2x 8C10 • Legolas, Elven Stalwart
2x 10U4 • Aegnor, Elven Escort
1x 12C22 • Rumil, Brother of Haldir
1x 3U10 • Calaglin, Elf of Lorien
1x 3U12 • Dinendal, Silent Scout
1x 1U31 • Asfaloth
3x 1C41 Elven Bow
3x 4C87 Valor
3x 4C109 • Aragorn, Heir of Elendil
2x 1U94 Athelas
1x 7U93 Footman's Armor
1x 1U112 • Ranger's Sword
1x 1C102 Dagger Strike
2x 4C115 Defend It and Hope
1x 1C286 Bounder
2x 4C306 Hobbit Sword
Free Peoples Total 30
Shadow Draw Deck
3x 2C47 Uruk Scout
2x 4R186 Uruk Follower
2x 4C187 Uruk Foot Soldier
3x 4C189 Uruk Plains Runner
3x 4C193 Uruk Runner
2x 4U194 Uruk Searcher
3x 4C195 Uruk Seeker
2x 3C69 • Saruman, Servant of the Eye
2x 4C196 Uruk Spear
3x 4U159 Many Riddles
2x 3C63 One of You Must Do This
2x 4C156 Kill Them Now
1x 1U231 • Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
Shadow Total 30
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Any idea when we will get a Collectors league again? And what format it will be when it does start? That would make it easier to choose which packs to take when league games are won.
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Sorry everyone, I was somehow sure that current constructed league ends somewhere in the middle of next week. Next league will start in a few days. It will have the following formats:
- serie 1: set 1
- serie 2: sets 1-2
- serie 3: FotR block
- serie 4: sets 1-4, TS X-list in effect of course
Collection: My Cards
@MarcinS: each time I try to add a league I get error 401. I am logged in in this exact tab, so this must be some other problem than previously. Do you have any idea what's happening? As a temporary fix, could you add a league I mentioned above starting Tuesday or Wednesday?
Other news: for new sealed league, with decks created for it from scratch, 6 out of 9 decks needed are ready. So I can say I'm something like 95% sure we will be able to play it after current TTT league ends.
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Looks like MarcinS was able to boot up the league Hsiale! I hope you get things sorted....
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Any chance of a whole league devoted to constructed Expanded?
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I personnaly would like to see a League that cover all major formats, like:
- serie 1: FotR block
- serie 2: Tower Standard
- serie 3: Movie
- serie 4: War of the Ring Standard
- serie 5: Standard
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The big problem of Gemp leagues are participation dropping in later series. Lots of people start but way less play till the end. I haven't found a way to fix this for a sealed leagues so far (as part of the fun is planning how your deck will develop when you get cards gradually) but the problem is not so big there - with huge amount of participants sealed leagues get even when most of them drop the number of players remaining still is decent.
Constructed leagues are less popular and after people drop out I feel it's quite often hard to find opponents. Today I got an idea of making constructed leagues which will be only one serie of games. Single format, probably something like 13 games and 10 days to play them. This way there will be a new league to join quite often, we will be able to cycle through formats more often and participation level will be more stable. What do you think about this?
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Leagues are awesome in any case :)
From my point of view as new to gemp (3 weeks) I'm trying to get into collectors league asap, so I have bought some "cheap" cards and was trying to predict next league format. The thing is that with lots of format changing I wouldn't be able to play as many I would like and process of getting more cards would slow down.
If its possible to know format little bit more in advance so newer players can try to prepare decks? Or maybe mix in some "all cards" league
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agree with hsiale.. I might suggest that maybe something like 20 games per Serie, but you are allowed to have the same opponents max of 2 games per Serie instead of 1 game per Serie...
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Constructed leagues are less popular and after people drop out I feel it's quite often hard to find opponents. Today I got an idea of making constructed leagues which will be only one serie of games. Single format, probably something like 13 games and 10 days to play them. This way there will be a new league to join quite often, we will be able to cycle through formats more often and participation level will be more stable. What do you think about this?
I think this is a fantastic idea. The reason I don't play more league games, is because they are often just not in the formats that l like to play the most.
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agree with hsiale.. I might suggest that maybe something like 20 games per Serie, but you are allowed to have the same opponents max of 2 games per Serie instead of 1 game per Serie...
I think that 20 games is a lot. Some of us are busy.
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I would prefer longer lasting leagues (to make it easier for the people to accommodate their schedule) with more matches (to minimize the effect of getting LOTR'd) and with prize distribution not only at the end of the league, but at the end of series as well. Also, I once again voice my displeasure about giving out worthless foils as match winning rewards and suggest that all match winning rewards be boosters (or that a player is given a choice among a sizeable random selection of foils, so that he can choose one for his deck or one that he is able to sell for more than 2 cents).
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I would prefer longer lasting leagues (to make it easier for the people to accommodate their schedule) with more matches (to minimize the effect of getting LOTR'd) and with prize distribution not only at the end of the league, but at the end of series as well. Also, I once again voice my displeasure about giving out worthless foils as match winning rewards and suggest that all match winning rewards be boosters (or that a player is given a choice among a sizeable random selection of foils, so that he can choose one for his deck or one that he is able to sell for more than 2 cents).
1. How is giving prizes at the end of a series different from giving it at after a game won?
2. League entry prize would have to be at least doubled to give booster as a prize for each game won, in order to satisfy the requirement of NOT joining a league being a viable option.
3. The foil is random, so sometimes it's going to be worthless - sometimes worth a lot.
4. Most of this comment seems to be summarized by - "give more prizes!", not a good approach.
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1. How is giving prizes at the end of a series different from giving it at after a game won?
Right now series last about a week, while the whole league lasts about a month.
So, in case the number of games in a series is doubled to 20 and its duration is increased to 2 or more weeks, the gap between entering the league and receiving the substantial amount of prizes (which happens at the end of the league, which would be 2+ months after its start if the league duration was prolonged as suggested above) could be too big for some people.
As for the difference, since the awards in that case would be based on the number of points per series, it would encourage participation (the prizes at the end of the game do not encourage participation directly in the case of less competitive players).
2. League entry prize would have to be at least doubled to give booster as a prize for each game won, in order to satisfy the requirement of NOT joining a league being a viable option.
Why would NOT PLAYING be a viable option? I thought the point of Gemp and of Organized play was to encourage playing and participating in competitions, not abstaining from them. Not playing can be done regardless of the existence of Gemp.
3. The foil is random, so sometimes it's going to be worthless - sometimes worth a lot.
So far I've obtained 11 or 12 foils and promos. Their cumulative value was probably lower than a gold piece, let alone the price of a single booster. Obviously, the probability of getting a good prize is low. So, what is the expected value of a foil common, a foil uncommon, a promo, and of a foil promo? It is probably an order of magnitude smaller than the expected value of the cards in a booster (or even more), but I can't check it since the merchant doesn't sell foils.
4. Most of this comment seems to be summarized by - "give more prizes!", not a good approach.
You've done great work on the site and I appreciate it. Post league prizes are good, I'm quite content for getting four boosters though I participated only in the half of the league games.
However, this is a topic dedicated to improvement suggestions, not to praising the good features (i.e. everything else except for the above and lack of official sanctions against the ragequitters). A prize should feel like a prize. Getting a 0.01 GP card after a tough game is kind of anticlimactic.
While I consider the foil prizes a small and relatively insignificant annoyance, I am positively baffled by the part 2 of your response. Why would you want to give the people an incentive not to participate in a league?
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So, in case the number of games in a series is doubled to 20 and its duration is increased to 2 or more weeks, the gap between entering the league and receiving the substantial amount of prizes (which happens at the end of the league, which would be 2+ months after its start if the league duration was prolonged as suggested above) could be too big for some people.
You haven't read hsiale post carefuly. His idea was to increase number of games in constructed leagues, making the series longer, but only 1 series in whole league. So, short term rewards will be received after each game win (as normal) and the long term at the end of the league (1 series).
Why would NOT PLAYING be a viable option? I thought the point of Gemp and of Organized play was to encourage playing and participating in competitions, not abstaining from them. Not playing can be done regardless of the existence of Gemp.
I didn't say NOT PLAYING - I said - not joining every league, which is quite different.
For example, instead of participating in a sealed league (format one might not really enjoy playing), one may choose to spend the gold on singles needed for his/her deck for constructed league to increase his/her chances there. If participating in a league was obligatory, to not feel left out collection growing-wise, then this choice of what player wants to do, and how to grow his/her collection would be taken away. In other words - all players would have to participate in all leagues. If this is what we want to achieve, we might take away the currency from the system, and make leagues free.
This will become even more true, once there will be more money sinks in the system, i.e. on-demand tournaments, scheduled tournaments, etc. Idea behind currency is not, to allow everyone participate in everything, as then there is no need for currency, but to provide all players with a valid choice, of how they want to spend their allotted resources (gold and time).
So far I've obtained 11 or 12 foils and promos. Their cumulative value was probably lower than a gold piece, let alone the price of a single booster. Obviously, the probability of getting a good prize is low. So, what is the expected value of a foil common, a foil uncommon, a promo, and of a foil promo? It is probably an order of magnitude smaller than the expected value of the cards in a booster (or even more), but I can't check it since the merchant doesn't sell foils.
The idea is, that an average player playing majority of his games in a league, will get his investment (joining league fee) in boosters, just from the game win rewards. That should encourage an average player to join the league at all (invest currency), even if one feels he/she might not get enough time to play all games, as well feeling strong enough as a player to win most of games.
I strongly believe, that current system for league rewards achieves all the goals we wanted to achieve. If you want to dispute any of that, you probably have to specify, if you want to change the goals, or argue that the system doesn't achieve the goals we have set. (I believe the goals can be found in one of the posts in the forum).
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The big problem of Gemp leagues are participation dropping in later series. Lots of people start but way less play till the end. I haven't found a way to fix this for a sealed leagues so far (as part of the fun is planning how your deck will develop when you get cards gradually) but the problem is not so big there - with huge amount of participants sealed leagues get even when most of them drop the number of players remaining still is decent.
Constructed leagues are less popular and after people drop out I feel it's quite often hard to find opponents. Today I got an idea of making constructed leagues which will be only one serie of games. Single format, probably something like 13 games and 10 days to play them. This way there will be a new league to join quite often, we will be able to cycle through formats more often and participation level will be more stable. What do you think about this?
If the problem is that people stop playing in later series, an easy and effective solution would be to just increase the rewards in the later series relative to earlier series.
Also, is there a reason behind people loosing all of their sealed deck cards after the series is over? I think it would make constructed league more fun if people had more cards at their disposal. It is really hard to get coins initially, but then after you are already established, it is really easy
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agree with hsiale.. I might suggest that maybe something like 20 games per Serie, but you are allowed to have the same opponents max of 2 games per Serie instead of 1 game per Serie...
I think that 20 games is a lot. Some of us are busy.
This. I have yet to join a league since I know I will never come close to playing all of the games.
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All the leagues follow the same pattern: a bit more than one game per day is enough to play all the games (most leagues recently use series of 9 days and 10 games). A 20 games league would last at least 17 days.
The reason of sealed deck cards disappearing is that if they were left to players, everyone would have to join, even if a player does not want to play at all. And having participants who plan not to play is not a good thing. The league costs 50G and even if you play half of the games the prizes are well over this worth, especially now, when each sealed league has 200-300 participants (which drives the overall ranking prizes up). Last TTT league even finishing around 110th place gave 5-6 boosters from overall ranking alone (not counting extra prizes for each win), and to get such place it was enough to play something like 16-18 games at 50% win rate, or 25 games with no wins at all. So, even if you want to play just some of the games, you still are nearly sure to gain more cards on participating than 50G gives you spent on packs. We just didn't want the sign up alone, with no games played at all, have positive value for collection.
First three sealed leagues allowed people to have their cards. Two of them were FotR and one TTT. And this is clearly visible now in card prices - FotR has most cards worthless with best rares priced over the roof, TTT is a bit better but still not great, while King Block prices are really good - best rares are not so expensive but even nearly all commons are worth more than $0.01.
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The league costs 50G and even if you play half of the games the prizes are well over this worth, especially now, when each sealed league has 200-300 participants (which drives the overall ranking prizes up). Last TTT league even finishing around 110th place gave 5-6 boosters from overall ranking alone (not counting extra prizes for each win), and to get such place it was enough to play something like 16-18 games at 50% win rate, or 25 games with no wins at all. So, even if you want to play just some of the games, you still are nearly sure to gain more cards on participating than 50G gives you spent on packs. We just didn't want the sign up alone, with no games played at all, have positive value for collection.
I disagree. I just won the last two sealed leagues. I have 177 unopened boosters. If I wanted to play in a collectors' league, I would buy the singles for my deck. I wouldn't open cards. Why? There is no pack worth 10 gold, and it's not worth my time to mine gold.
Pack value is based mostly on the rare. I looked tonight, December 20. Of the 121 rares in FotR, only 38 had a buy price of 5 gold or more. Mines of Moria has 12/40. Realms has 12/40. Siege of Gondor was a good set for rares, with 19/40 over 5, and 11/40 at 10 gold or more. In a poor set for rares like Ents of Fangorn, there are only 10/40 above 5 and 4/40 worth 10 or more. To pick a less played set, in Treachery & Deceit only 8/60 rares are over 5 and 4/60 are over 10.
This means that in the best set, only 1/2 the time do I get at least 5 gold from the rare. An average set has 1/3. Some sets are worse. I'll add 1 gold for the commons and uncommons, but that doesn't get me a lot of value from a majority of packs.
One might argue that I should consider mean cost, not the median. I totaled the cost for Realms and Siege, which have good rares overall. For Realms buy cost, I get about 400 gold over 40 cards, an average of 10. Siege of Gondor gets about 340 gold, an average of 8.5. Add one more for uncommons and commons, to make 11 for Realms.
Remember that my sell price is 3/4 of the buy price. Thus, if I'm willing to open Realms packs and go through the very slow sales process, I can get about 8 gold per pack. Whoo hoo. I'd much rather be playing games and having fun.
Given this hassle, a pack won is not worth 10 gold. I'll say 6, but I'm tempted to value it less. At 6 gold, I need to earn 9 packs to make back my entry fee. If I play 25 games and get no wins, 5 packs isn't worth it. But 0-25 is not very realistic. Let's say 18 games at 50% win rate, so 9-9. That means 4 or 5 packs from game wins, plus about 5 from the end of the series. I make a small profit -- if I spend a lot of time with the merchant. That's not nearly sure, and it's not fun.
I know that you, hsiale, and MarcinS are terrified of inflation. But under the current system, everyone's really poor. As I've said, I don't want to play Super Sealed and I don't want to spend hours selling 2 cent commons to get a decent deck together.
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If you thought your packs weren't worth much before, get ready to be staring at 30+ Bridge of Kazad Dum in your collection.
Marcin - I understand adjusting the Merchent to not buy cards that it would see no value in, but I'm a little annoyed that some power cards I can no longer get at all unless someone sells a copy to the merchant.
Now that some cards are hard to get, because the Merchent doesn't have them in stock, it doesn't encourage someone to sell a randomly opened Goblin Armory or Gondorian Bowman, because what are they going to buy with that money? The other power cards are unavailable, so there is no reason to sell Goblin Armory so you can buy Savageries if the merchent has no savageries to sell.
I'm afraid that this tweak is going to lead to a frozen market.
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If you thought your packs weren't worth much before, get ready to be staring at 30+ Bridge of Kazad Dum in your collection.
Marcin - I understand adjusting the Merchent to not buy cards that it would see no value in, but I'm a little annoyed that some power cards I can no longer get at all unless someone sells a copy to the merchant.
Now that some cards are hard to get, because the Merchent doesn't have them in stock, it doesn't encourage someone to sell a randomly opened Goblin Armory or Gondorian Bowman, because what are they going to buy with that money? The other power cards are unavailable, so there is no reason to sell Goblin Armory so you can buy Savageries if the merchent has no savageries to sell.
I'm afraid that this tweak is going to lead to a frozen market.
I will be tweaking the parameters of the merchant, but I'd rather start with some safe settings, as if a damage is done (market gets flooded) it cannot be undone.
And no, I don't think it will get frozen, as if the "buy" prize for the Goblin Armory reaches some magic number, it will be worth to sell it, and buy boosters, hoping to open couple of good cards. So, it's just a matter of finding proper settings, that will instruct merchant to increase "buy" prize for cards out of stock, fast enough to satisfy singles demand.
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I didn't say NOT PLAYING - I said - not joining every league, which is quite different.
Your goal is to encourage participation in the leagues, right? Well, it seems pretty obvious to me that, in order to encourage participation in league play, there needs to be an advantage in league play over casual. As it stands now, there just isn't. If anything, the advantage goes to casual. It is easier and less hassle for people to just stick with casual play and let the gold build up. Why do you care about trying to make casual play economically competitive with league play? Is it your goal to build a fake economy, or is it your goal to build a healthy playing environment? It seems to me that you are overly-focused on the fake economic aspects of this system, which I feel most players don't really give a crap about.
For example, instead of participating in a sealed league (format one might not really enjoy playing), one may choose to spend the gold on singles needed for his/her deck for constructed league to increase his/her chances there. If participating in a league was obligatory,
In your above example, the person in question is still motivated to participate in league play, whether that be sealed or constructed (I think you actually meant collectors). Participation in league play is only "obligatory" if the gold actually matters, and gold is entirely unnecessary for casual play. As it stands now, casual play is still the better bet to get gold "easily," and yet no one actually needs gold in casual play. See the problem?
Idea behind currency is not, to allow everyone participate in everything, as then there is no need for currency, but to provide all players with a valid choice, of how they want to spend their allotted resources (gold and time).
But you're trying to make casual play competitive with league play in terms of earning gold, when gold is useless in the casual play environment. I feel there should be a distinct and obvious gold advantage to playing in leagues and tournaments, and it seems to me that most players currently do not see such an advantage. That seems to be your intent, actually, but it doesn't encourage league participation.
The idea is, that an average player playing majority of his games in a league, will get his investment (joining league fee) in boosters, just from the game win rewards. That should encourage an average player to join the league at all (invest currency), even if one feels he/she might not get enough time to play all games, as well feeling strong enough as a player to win most of games.
We've been through this already. Last time I looked at the numbers, the "average player" was not what you thought it was. They didn't play as much as you thought, and they didn't win as many games as you thought.
I disagree. I just won the last two sealed leagues. I have 177 unopened boosters. If I wanted to play in a collectors' league, I would buy the singles for my deck. I wouldn't open cards. Why? There is no pack worth 10 gold, and it's not worth my time to mine gold.
Bingo. If you're in it for the gold, league play is just not worth the hassle.
I know that you, hsiale, and MarcinS are terrified of inflation. But under the current system, everyone's really poor. As I've said, I don't want to play Super Sealed and I don't want to spend hours selling 2 cent commons to get a decent deck together.
This.
If you thought your packs weren't worth much before, get ready to be staring at 30+ Bridge of Kazad Dum in your collection.
Marcin - I understand adjusting the Merchent to not buy cards that it would see no value in, but I'm a little annoyed that some power cards I can no longer get at all unless someone sells a copy to the merchant.
Now that some cards are hard to get, because the Merchent doesn't have them in stock, it doesn't encourage someone to sell a randomly opened Goblin Armory or Gondorian Bowman, because what are they going to buy with that money?
Wow. Here again, to me this is highly detrimental to league play, collectors formats, and the gold system. Again, your objective should not be to simulate a realistic economy, your objective should be to create a healthy playing environment. If there are cards that nobody can get regardless of how much gold you have, then ultimately the gold becomes worthless. You're never going to be able to duplicate the real economic structure of lotr, because there is no way for players to trade or sell cards directly to each other. But in that real economic structure, it is still possible to buy any single you want, if you're willing to pay enough to get it. In my view, the merchant should NEVER be out of stock. Astronomically high prices perhaps, but never out of stock.
The other power cards are unavailable, so there is no reason to sell Goblin Armory so you can buy Savageries if the merchent has no savageries to sell.
I'm afraid that this tweak is going to lead to a frozen market.
Yep.
Right now there is no economic incentive to make me want to participate in leagues. Most of the league formats I see available, are not formats I'm interested in playing, so there's no player's incentive for me to participate either. However, I'm very hopeful that hsiale's idea to cycle through formats more quickly, and have single-series leagues, will give me that player's incentive I'm looking for, by having more formats I like to play.
However, there's still no gold incentive to play. From my persective, there is actually a gold incentive to not play in leagues.
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And no, I don't think it will get frozen, as if the "buy" prize for the Goblin Armory reaches some magic number, it will be worth to sell it, and buy boosters, hoping to open couple of good cards. So, it's just a matter of finding proper settings, that will instruct merchant to increase "buy" prize for cards out of stock, fast enough to satisfy singles demand.
Disagree, booster packs are more or less worthless. As the posted posted here, your odds of pulling a good rare vs. a worthless rare are simply not good. So, selling a Goblin armory and buying like 10 boosters with what you got - you might get lucky and pull another Goblin Armory! Or you might get lucky and get $10 in total sales back to the merchent.
I would never sell a Goblin Armory and hope to get Gondorian Bowman in random pack pulls. Instead, i'm going to horde my Goblin Armory and just hope I see more of them through natural prizes from signing up for leagues.
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After some thinking and reading your input, this is the plan for next weeks.
Constructed leagues will be one serie. They will last 11 days and number of games allowed will be 13 per player. Of course overall classification prizes will go down (because you can play 3 leagues in time you played one before). Prize details will be announced soon.
League formats:
- starting 27.12.2012: War of the Ring Standard, Non-Collector's
- starting 07.01.2012: Towers Standard, Non-Collector's
- starting 18.01.2012: Fellowship Block, Collector's
- starting 29.01.2012: Expanded, Non-Collector's
- starting 09.02.2012: Reflections Standard (sets 1-9), Collector's
The reason for a bit of break from Collector's is that I want to give you time to get used to new merchant and whatever tweaks (if any) to it are needed. Afterwards I plan to alternate Collector's and Non-Collector's as before.
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Is non-collectors the same thing as constructed?
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Yes. All cards allowed.
Whenever I use name "Constructed" people ask if all cards are allowed, so I decided to try to write it more clear this time :)
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To address the last few posts:
1. Old merchant caused the value of cards being too low, compared to boosters. The new merchant should equalize the value of boosters vs the value of cards (thanks to magical thing called - free market rules), so that when you open a booster, on average you should be getting cards worth of 10g "sell" price (merchant will "buy" them for 7g, due to 70% return on investment it expects). No, it will not happen over-night, as introducing a very drastic changes like that, may open it to exploit by players camping merchant, but it will happen within few days.
2. Due to the increase of value of boosters (point 1), playing in a league, while doing "average" should be enough of an incentive to join a league, and there is no need to increase league prizes. The problem was that we have calculated prize payout for "average player" based on booster prices value as compared to the entry cost. When the real booster price plummeted, it broke our calculations.
3. Players who play only "Casual" games, as they either have no time to play enough league games, or don't really care about competitive aspect - do not care about collections or prizes given in league. So, increasing prizes in league, both for each game won, as well as the end of league one, will not make them more willing to play and compete. In fact, there is nothing we can do, to make them willing to participate in organized play (outside of turning off possibility of creating "All cards" games).
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3. Players who play only "Casual" games, as they either have no time to play enough league games, or don't really care about competitive aspect - do not care about collections or prizes given in league. So, increasing prizes in league, both for each game won, as well as the end of league one, will not make them more willing to play and compete. In fact, there is nothing we can do, to make them willing to participate in organized play (outside of turning off possibility of creating "All cards" games).
I can't speak for everyone else, but I can speak for myself: I haven't played in a league game for quite a while now, and the reasons I haven't are not any of the reasons you have listed. I do care about collections, prizes, the competitive aspect. Having leagues in formats I like to play would improve my participation, increasing prizes would also improve my participation. Right now, from my perspective, league play is not fun enough (because it's usually formats I don't care for), and it is not lucrative enough (because historically I am lucky to break even on the entry fee). Those are the reasons I don't participate more. Period.
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and it is not lucrative enough (because historically I am lucky to break even on the entry fee)
If you don't break up even, the problem is either with the value of boosters being too low (which is gonna be fixed), or you don't have enough time to playout all your games, which is unfixable, as pointed in my point 3 ("they either have no time to play enough league games").
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If you don't break up even, the problem is either with the value of boosters being too low (which is gonna be fixed), or you don't have enough time to playout all your games, which is unfixable, as pointed in my point 3 ("they either have no time to play enough league games").
Last time I looked at your numbers, the average player does not play enough games to break even. This means that league play is not a good deal for the average player. This is fixable, and perhaps fixing the value of the boosters will correct that.
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After some thinking and reading your input, this is the plan for next weeks.
Constructed leagues will be one serie. They will last 11 days and number of games allowed will be 13 per player. Of course overall classification prizes will go down (because you can play 3 leagues in time you played one before). Prize details will be announced soon.
League formats:
- starting 27.12.2012: War of the Ring Standard, Non-Collector's
- starting 07.01.2012: Towers Standard, Non-Collector's
- starting 18.01.2012: Fellowship Block, Collector's
- starting 29.01.2012: Expanded, Non-Collector's
- starting 09.02.2012: Reflections Standard (sets 1-9), Collector's
The reason for a bit of break from Collector's is that I want to give you time to get used to new merchant and whatever tweaks (if any) to it are needed. Afterwards I plan to alternate Collector's and Non-Collector's as before.
That's nice.
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hsiale, I have another suggestion for future league events:
I was on gemp checking out the Server Stats tab, and I looked up the stats month-by-month for the past 4 months, to see what the most popular formats are in casual play. The results are pretty consistent: Fellowship is the most popular, hovering around the 30% range. Movie and Expanded are always roughly tied for second, around the 25% range. Some months Expanded is more popular, some months Movie is more popular... but the point is that those three formats account for around 80% of all the casual games on gemp. Every other format is FAR less popular than those three. Open tends to be the 4th most popular format, with only about 5% of the games per month. After that is Towers, Towers Standard, and Standard, all hovering around the 2-3% range. After those guys, all the other formats are a fraction of 1% popularity.
Where am I going with this? I suggest that you concentrate your league events on those top three formats, the ones that people want to play 80% of the time. More events in those formats, fewer events in the rest. I think that's another way to encourage more participation. One reason why people drop out towards the end of events, might be because they were willing to try a less popular format... but ultimately those less popular formats are just not fun enough for them to keep playing to the end.
Thoughts?
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After some thinking and reading your input, this is the plan for next weeks.
Constructed leagues will be one serie. They will last 11 days and number of games allowed will be 13 per player. Of course overall classification prizes will go down (because you can play 3 leagues in time you played one before). Prize details will be announced soon.
League formats:
- starting 27.12.2012: War of the Ring Standard, Non-Collector's
- starting 07.01.2012: Towers Standard, Non-Collector's
- starting 18.01.2012: Fellowship Block, Collector's
- starting 29.01.2012: Expanded, Non-Collector's
- starting 09.02.2012: Reflections Standard (sets 1-9), Collector's
The reason for a bit of break from Collector's is that I want to give you time to get used to new merchant and whatever tweaks (if any) to it are needed. Afterwards I plan to alternate Collector's and Non-Collector's as before.
Will the Fellowship block league start today, as scheduled?
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Why isn't there a new league up yet?
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WANTED: Hsiale
Alive!
Where are you buddy!?!?
League, we needz it precious :'(
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Since it looks like hsiale is indisposed, maybe someone else could temporarily take over league organization? League play is the most attractive form of the organized play and many of us are experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms.
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In absence of hsiale, I have added 3 next leagues as he has planned, with just a slight dates slip.
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It would be a nice idea, if the Sealed Leagues could profit from some kind of promo - maybe even a Virtual Promo. Back in the days, some tournaments received special promo cards (you guys know this, but oh well). So it would make for a nice change if it could be implemented here. I'd prefer this for Sealed, not everyone has a constructed deck (yet).
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Any new sealed leagues planned?
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Looking at the prize support for league events, I see the payout for constructed is a lot less than it is for collector's. Does this really make sense? If you have a good deck for collector's, than clearly you already have a good card collection, you don't necessarily need a big payout. But a bigger payout in constructed could lead to people who place well being able to transition to collector's.
I suggest, at a minimum, that both of those league types have the same payout.
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Or that collectors has a greater payout of promos maybe?
(Also solves the promos availability problem)
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Looking at the prize support for league events, I see the payout for constructed is a lot less than it is for collector's. Does this really make sense? If you have a good deck for collector's, than clearly you already have a good card collection, you don't necessarily need a big payout. But a bigger payout in constructed could lead to people who place well being able to transition to collector's.
I suggest, at a minimum, that both of those league types have the same payout.
The idea behind this difference is simple - you invest less (buying cards), you gain less.
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The idea behind this difference is simple - you invest less (buying cards), you gain less.
That just turns it into a rich man's game. You excel based not on your skill, but based on the size of your wallet.
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The idea behind this difference is simple - you invest less (buying cards), you gain less.
This would make some sense, except that how much we invest is not our choice. At the moment the people in first have all the cards and therefore win all the "my cards" tournaments, leaving any newcomer very little chance of catching up.
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Can you give more booster packs for next Serie in Fellow Sealed?
IMO Serie 1 is so boring because we get only 2 decks and not enough b.packs :/
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I find I get quite the postions with what we get. Its still sealed, ya know. Should be a challenge.
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I think the sealed leagues are great as they are! I like that everyone starts with basically the same deck: it shows true skill if you can consistently win. There is an element of luck, too, but adding in more boosters would make it worse. In the last (movie) sealed league, I only played 1 card from my boosters, There and Back Again, for the first serie, but still won 7 of my 10 games. Made me feel like a boss 8-)
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Great was Movie Sealed, when we had more cards (more starters) to build nice deck and show "true skill".
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There needs to be done something about unfair players / cheaters in (sealed) leagues. There are tons of accounts with none or one games played. Those are obviously fake accounts made by people to choose the account with the best cards from the boosters.
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introduce highlander format , it was cool at old lotr online. ( 1 copy of a card max in the deck )
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The number of the rounds in daily tournaments is really wrong and makes no sense.
2^x=number of players, where x should be the number of rounds is the universal formula. No idea why we are playing always + 1 rounds - 8 players -> 4 rounds ; 9 players- 5 ?!
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9 players need a bye. The bye is the 10th player, so 5 games.
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Try to make the calculations then post, thank you.
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There needs to be done something about unfair players / cheaters in (sealed) leagues. There are tons of accounts with none or one games played. Those are obviously fake accounts made by people to choose the account with the best cards from the boosters.
bump, this is seriously getting out of hand. There are currently over 250 users in the fellowship sealed league that have 0 games played. Obviously some people are to arrogant to lose and make many accounts to get the best boosters.
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i agree. I would request MarcinS to ban all folks who enter a league with more than one account even if only one account participates in the league. It's not sporting otherwise.
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I'd like to see a Hunters Block Sealed next. Would be a nice change from Movie and FotR.
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Could we please have daily Expanded tournaments, in addition to the current daily Fellowship and daily Movie tournaments? On Gemp, Expanded is just as popular as Movie.
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The idea of daily tournaments is to be played with "owned" cards only. Expanded is a popular format, but most people can't afford collecting deck for expaneded. I believe that is the main reason, where the dailies are only move and fblock.
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The idea of daily tournaments is to be played with "owned" cards only.
Is there any reason why we can't have daily tournaments that can be played with all cards?
Expanded is a popular format, but most people can't afford collecting deck for expaneded.
Bah, it might take a while, but eventually anyone should be able to put one together.
I'd really like to have daily Expanded tournaments. I'd prefer all cards, but I'll take what I can get. Again, Expanded is tied with Movie for the 2nd most-played format on Gemp.
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For all cards, there are payed tournaments with a nice rewards too ( the only way to get promo/tengwar cards i think). So If there are so many players willing to play expanded with all cards, they can join that tourney at any time.
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There needs to be done something about unfair players / cheaters in (sealed) leagues. There are tons of accounts with none or one games played. Those are obviously fake accounts made by people to choose the account with the best cards from the boosters.
bump, this is seriously getting out of hand. There are currently over 250 users in the fellowship sealed league that have 0 games played. Obviously some people are to arrogant to lose and make many accounts to get the best boosters.
+1
sometimes its just too obvious, people uve never seen before come out with the best possible cards u can have lol, played the httc aragorn like 20 times already
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If there are so many players willing to play expanded with all cards, they can join that tourney at any time.
First, no "if" about it. Like I said, Expanded is tied with Movie for the 2nd most-played format on Gemp. The only format more popular then Expanded and Movie is Fellowship. Those are statistics that anyone can easily view.
Second, as I mentioned in the thread on Suggestions to Improve Gemp:
Right now it's still pretty hard to do a tournament, because it's tough to find enough people on the spur of the moment to sign up to play.
Can you offer a feature when you create a tournament table, to create the table IN ADVANCE, specifying a date and time? People could join that tournament table at any point prior to that, and then plan to be in attendance when the tournament starts. When the date and time arrives, any joiners who are logged on to gemp immediately start the tournament, while any joiners who are not logged on get booted from the tournament.
The Daily Tournament structure is essentially the above: A preset tournament, so that everyone who wants to play knows exactly when to show up. There are very few impromptu tournaments on Gemp for any format, because it's tough to get 8 people who just happen to be present, to join for a process that's going to last several games long.
So, MarcinS, can you PLEASE initiate Daily Expanded tournaments?
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How about an option to leave a league and get the gold back? Before the league starts of course. Sometimes, something more important comes up and the gold is lost for nothing.
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Another suggestion: You guys do great to give us all the fun that can be had with LotR TCG. But I'm sorely missing diversity in the sealed leagues. The FotR Block Sealed was fun, so why not continue it with Towers Block to King Block and so on?
E.G.
It all starts with FotR Block like last league:
FotR
Series 1 - Starter choice (2) + 6 FotR booster
Series 2 - Starter choice (2) + 3 MoM booster
Series 3 - Starter choice (2) + 3 RotEL booster
Series 4 - 2 booster of each set
TTT (new league FotR sealed cards get deleted)
Series 1 - Starter choice (2) + 6 TTT booster
Series 2 - Starter choice (2) + 3 BoHD booster
Series 3 - Starter choice (2) + 3 EOF booster
Series 4 - 2 booster of each set
King (new league TTT sealed cards get deleted)
Series 1 - Starter choice (2) + 6 King booster
Series 2 - Starter choice (2) + 3 SoG booster
Series 3 - Starter choice (2) + 3 MD booster
Series 4 - 2 booster of each set + 1 Reflections booster
Shadows (same as before)
Series 1 - Starter choice (4) +6 Shadows booster
Series 2 - Starter choice (2) + 3 BR booster
Series 3 - Starter choice (2) + 3 BL booster
You get the idea ;)
I'm not really liking the thougt of preconstructed decks. It destroys the idea of a sealed. Also, I would just give out those starters and booster, without adding further anti 6 comps cards like Enquea or Southron commander.
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Yeah can we get our money back from league? Movie league sucks and I agree that it's not really 'sealed' if it's preconstructed.
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When is the new sealed league starting, waiting for a new fun league to play in.
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Yeah can we get our money back from league? Movie league sucks and I agree that it's not really 'sealed' if it's preconstructed.
Every sealed league on LOTR TCG is featuring a preconstructed deck..
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Yeah every Sealed league has fixed starters. The variables are which cards you pull in your packs.
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How about an option to leave a league and get the gold back? Before the league starts of course. Sometimes, something more important comes up and the gold is lost for nothing.
People will abuse this to exit if their pool isnt good enough.
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How about an option to leave a league and get the gold back? Before the league starts of course. Sometimes, something more important comes up and the gold is lost for nothing.
People will abuse this to exit if their pool isnt good enough.
That's why I wrote before the league starts.
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About the people abusing, creating several accounts just to get better decks, I think the cost of a sealed tournament should be raised to be like 51 gold or something, to prevent this.
thoughts?
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Is a new sealed league coming soon?
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Revised Movie Block is a sealed league. The decks for each week are found here: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,8273.0.html
Although they have been slightly changed since then. I do not know where the updated lists are.
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I have a question about the All Cards tournaments for 6G35S. It states that 2 wins = 1Promo+ 1 booster and 3 wins = 2 booster.
I won 3x and got the 2 booster, but no promo. So, do I have to understand this as a ranking matter rather than to compare it to the league win prices?
It really should be vice versa, with 1st placing scoring the promo and 2nd place getting the booster. I got conceded on, just that my opponent could score the promo. That's neither fair, nor the idea of a tournament.
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Its fixed now, the winner is getting 2 boosters AND a promo
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any new sealed league soon?
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^When the current one: Revised Movie Block is finished. It's exactly halfway atm.
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I would really like to see more Leagues at a time, for those of us that play their matches in a day or two after the start of a Serie.
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Currently the way leagues are set up allows for: 1 all cards, 1 sealed, 1 my cards league going at all times. 3 leagues seems more than enough considering the on-demand tournaments as well as now THREE type of free daily tournaments that a person could join. Unless Marcin says otherwise I don't see how making more leagues would beneficial. There is already a disadvantage to folks who are not able to participate as much as others i.e. in all leagues after the restart to build up their my cards colleciton.
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What format is the new daily?
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Expanded.
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hows that, even more so after the poll?
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Can we have some of the dailies be at different times of the day? Some of us are asleep or at work when the current dailies are going on, so it would be nice to have a little more variety in the starting times.
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What format is the new daily?
Expanded.
Thank you very much for that!
I'm really looking forward to participating in some Daily Expanded tournaments!
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I would really like to see more Leagues at a time, for those of us that play their matches in a day or two after the start of a Serie.
I heartily endorse this event or product!
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Can we have some of the dailies be at different times of the day? Some of us are asleep or at work when the current dailies are going on, so it would be nice to have a little more variety in the starting times.
Quoted for truth.
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TT Block My Cards League is bad idea. I mean many people at the moment play their Fellowship Block decks in Movie Dailys too, so safest would be FotR My Cards - most will have cards for it. Why TT? The entry fee plus the cost for making a deck is too high and the prizes too little to be worth it. I mean, i know i can buy a starter and such, but i am sick of playing trash decks post reset, and it really is not what i want from a League.
I like War of the Ring Sealed League. It gives me opportunity to learn some post Shadows cards without having to play Expanded and such. So props for that. Just write here some decklists if the starters are fixed (like someone said).
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yeah right now i would rather have 2 sealed leagues than ANY my cards leagues. the my-cards dailies are bad enough
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I like TT my cards...
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I suggest that we have "My Cards" leagues in the same formats for which we have "My Cards" Daily Tournaments. You're basically catering to the same people, because that's what they've concentrated their collections on. Leagues would also give a chance to test out deck ideas on a level playing field, without trying to hit that same Daily tournament time every day.
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Can we have some of the dailies be at different times of the day? Some of us are asleep or at work when the current dailies are going on, so it would be nice to have a little more variety in the starting times.
Quoted for truth.
Expanded Dailies and Movie Dailies are currently still scheduled for the same day and time, meaning players have to choose between them. Since Movie is more established, Expanded is having a rough go of it. Could you please either move Expanded to a different time, or give it a day of its own? Thanks.
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I suggest Fellowship Block for the next My Cards League after the TT Block League ends. Most people playing in Dailys/Leagues and collecting cards have Fellowship Block legal decks by now, and it will be much more played than the TT one. Not to mention the sight of 2 starters battling in a Constructed League will be less common.
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Guys, I have a great League suggestion !
Let the players who finished their games for points, to continue to play league games, without getting any points or prizes for that, BUT influencing their tiebreakers! So if you start losing a lot, after the initial games for points, you will be last from the all players with the same number of points, but you have a chance to improve your tiebreakers too! Most of us want to play more non-casual games in every format, and that will give us the option to do that. That will also help players who struggle to find opponents for their league games at certain hours/days.
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Sounds like a good idea to me. I can't think of any downsides.
I would also propose that there ALWAYS be leagues for Fellowship, Movie, and Expanded, as those are the three most popular formats on Gemp.
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Actually I got no idea why there is no running league of every format anyways... I think it should be something weekly, instead of every now and then. And that combined will my ticket system, will be very healthy to the more competitive group of players on GEMP...
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Most of us want to play more non-casual games in every format, and that will give us the option to do that. That will also help players who struggle to find opponents for their league games at certain hours/days.
Great idea on both points, I just don't know how much work for MarcinS that would be. If its not too complicated to be done, i'm all for it. I find myself out of League matches very fast and would love to play more with some of the decks in competitive environment.
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The impression I get is that it's mostly automated, once it's set up.
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It is, but since I don't know how the Gemp works, i cant tell how much work is there for him to set the proposed changes up. Maybe its just few clicks away, maybe he has to write some additional code or something. Hope its the first, because I really like the idea. For example, in the now running TT League people are already struggling to find opponents who havent played their games yet.
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Guys, I have a great League suggestion !
Let the players who finished their games for points, to continue to play league games, without getting any points or prizes for that, BUT influencing their tiebreakers! So if you start losing a lot, after the initial games for points, you will be last from the all players with the same number of points, but you have a chance to improve your tiebreakers too! Most of us want to play more non-casual games in every format, and that will give us the option to do that. That will also help players who struggle to find opponents for their league games at certain hours/days.
The downside would be that if you continue to lose, you force your former opponents to play on because their tie breakers will drop because of you.
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Well, if you continue to win, your opponents' scores get better, right? So ultimately the tie is still dependent on the average awesomeness of the people you beat, right?
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The new Movie My Cards League is sheduled for 12-01-5172. Think i'm gonna be too old for this.
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When do we get another Expanded league, dangit?
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I take it after the Mount Doom league is finished.
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I would really like to see some fresh new leagues. I think a great idea would be a Constructed Poorman's movie league, wherein only commons and uncommons are allowed. I think this would add some new variety to the game. What do you guys think?
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Expanded My Cards, really? Like there were any Expanded Dailys since the day they were announced. I thought it was accepted by now that very few expanded players bother to collect My Cards decks. I get it that this is supposed to encourage them to do so, but dont get your hopes up too high, sgtdraino. Like someone said, if there are less than 4 people who sign for this, I'll join that League :P
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Hello guys,
I would appreciate an Expanded All cards Legaue. As said before, it's very diffucult to build a deck in expanded only with your own cards. Maybe we could play also more than only 1 series.
Thanks for thinking about my proposal ;)
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Expanded All Cards League just ended.
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Expanded My Cards, really? Like there were any Expanded Dailys since the day they were announced.
With them scheduled at the same time as the more established Movie dailies, it's really no wonder.
I thought it was accepted by now that very few expanded players bother to collect My Cards decks.
Until very recently, there has been very little incentive for them to do so. Unfortunately, those habits can become ingrained. Gemp has led Expanded players think that it's pointless to bother with the My Cards stuff. It may be difficult to change those attitudes.
I get it that this is supposed to encourage them to do so, but dont get your hopes up too high, sgtdraino. Like someone said, if there are less than 4 people who sign for this, I'll join that League :P
Expanded My Cards is more difficult to build a good deck for, than Fellowship or Movie. That said, those with Movie decks should not find it that difficult to make your deck legal for Expanded... unless of course you are relying on broken stuff like Galadriel, LR or The Shire Countryside ;). But I would encourage folks to think of this as an opportunity: This league is likely to have fewer people competing in it, so the chances are better that you could get a bigger prize payout yourself.
And then, maybe once you've participated, the Expanded Dailies will finally see some action!
I would appreciate an Expanded All cards Legaue. As said before, it's very diffucult to build a deck in expanded only with your own cards. Maybe we could play also more than only 1 series.
Yeah, this! Maybe something like what the current All Cards FotR League has got. If you really feel a need to change it up, you could have the first series be Movie, the second and third series be Expanded, and the fourth series be Open!
Although frankly 4 series that are all just Expanded would suit me just fine!
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Hello guys,
I have a wish. I would like to join the tournaments. But the problem is, in the country where I live, it is two hours later than you. So when you start at 19:30 it's 21:30 at my hometown. And then 4 hours playing makes it 1:30. That's far to late if you must go to work. And as it's not me but all the other players from my time zone, I had a proposal:
Could we play tournaments on saturday or sunday afternoon. Like it was in former times, when there was every saturday another tournament in the city. Beginning at 10 o'clock and then 4 or 5 rounds Swiss system. So perhaps more players would join and we could have tournaments with about 20 players. That would be big fun.
And if that works and many players join, we could build up a championship round for which you have to qualify yourself and have it like the old European Championship system (but that's maybe only dreaming...).
I know my english is not that good, but I hope you understand my apply. It's not just the time which I want to change. I want to make it a greater event. Hopefully you understand.
Let me hear what you think about it!
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Thre prizes for 4 Series All Cards Leagues are so miserable!
I get it that My Cards is supposed to have better rewards than All Cards, and i agree, BUT 4 Series League is a totally different animal than 1 series League. So you play like a month, using 4 decks in the process, and place 5th or 9th, and you get 2 or 3 boosters? Well even dropping from a 8man Daily will give you that much, without having to play a single game, let alone 40 and a month to spend. No wonder so many people lose interest come Serie 3 and 4.
I say the prizes for all 4 Series Leagues (both My Cards and All Cards) need to be increased x3, otherwise there isnt much incentive to dedicate that much time and effort to a 4 Week All Cards League.
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What he said ^^
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Agree with chutlu, i don't play the all card 2nd and more series if i start bad in the first, it's useless...
And I think i'm not alone...
And for the dailys tournaments i have the same problem than gil galad, most of the time i don't do them because it's finishing too late when i work the day after... one hour before for the first tournament would be better!
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It seems like when the prices where decided all card league lasted one season,
the collectors as well, and the sealed lasted 4 seasons.
So when all cards and collectors started being longer, the prices stayed the same.
I 'd say for collectors and all cards leagues that last 4 seasons, prices x 4.
Its not reasonable to take the same price for movie my cards 1 season (last one)
and towers standard 4 season (current). Same for all cards where prices are pathetic even for 1 season, but at least you aim for the tengwars. But 4 season fight for just tengwars IF you manage to get to top 4 is just Crazyy!!
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I get it that My Cards is supposed to have better rewards than All Cards, and i agree,
I don't agree. I think the prizes should be higher in situations where the playing field is more even. Where there is more of an equal chance for any player to win, so long as that player plays well. Those situations are Sealed Deck, and All Cards. My Cards is never a balanced playing field, because there are always going to be players with more cash who have better access to cards than players with less cash. IMO the current system, awarding bigger prizes for My Cards games, simply increases the disparity between people with more cash and people with less, because the people with more cash are more likely to do well, therefore get the bigger payoff, and therefore get even more cash.
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I'm with sgtdraino on this one: All Cards Leagues are a better test of skill than My Cards Leagues (though sealed obviously tops the lot. Oh, and I'm not just saying that because I'm currently winning both the Sealed and All Cards Leagues ;D
However, I do not really take issue with this. I don't like that the 1 week leagues are given the same prizes as the 1 month ones. In my opinion dominating Sealed Leagues is much more impressive than dominating My Cards leagues. However, there are many more My Cards Leagues than Sealed ones because several My Cards Leagues are only for 1 Serie. This results in at least 2x the number of Tengwars being given out for My Cards Enthusiasts than to those who xcel at Sealed Leagues. I really feel that either giving out 10 Tengwars in a 1 week competition is too many or only 10 in a 4 serie one is far too few. (I am at the stage where I have completed all of my FotR decks, so only really care about Tengwars for showing off).
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Well, I strongly disagree that all cards need more skill.
This is a tcg, building a deck with every given card is a lot easier than building a deck with limited cards.
Cash in gemp is actually experience and skill, it's not a fat wallet as in most games. Even if you are rich, you can not buy all cards, you just have to play.
Also, mycards have more realistic metagame, and it changes slower, but in all cards anything can happen, as you can switch decks pretty easily.
So to sum up,
+1 for better pices in all cards, +1 for multiplied prices in 4 season tournaments (except sealed),
Mycards >All cards pricewise.
P.S. Sealed indeed needs skill to be succesfull, although luck has a more important role than other formats, as a greenleaf or a gorn's bow might be the winning factor if both players are equally skilled
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To do well at All Cards, you have to be better than the rest. To do well in My Cards you you can get away with having better cards than the rest. If you are more skillful, it is easier to get a better collection, but that is not the only way. Often you can get 2 boosters by just joining a daily. If you did that twice a day, every day you would have a much larger collection than most. That is not skillful, yet it has given you an edge in My Cards Leagues. It certainly is more prestigious to have a cool My Cards deck, but in my opinion that just takes away from the skill of those leagues.
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To do well at All Cards, you have to be better than the rest. To do well in My Cards you you can get away with having better cards than the rest. If you are more skillful, it is easier to get a better collection, but that is not the only way. Often you can get 2 boosters by just joining a daily. If you did that twice a day, every day you would have a much larger collection than most. That is not skillful, yet it has given you an edge in My Cards Leagues. It certainly is more prestigious to have a cool My Cards deck, but in my opinion that just takes away from the skill of those leagues.
2 boosters per day translates to experience for me, not cheeting or taking the easy way.
You also get boosters from leagues, even more exp that is.
And you are not concidering deck building as skill, which actually is hald of this game.
It takes skill to make a good deck, so it takes even more to make with limited card collection.
Another thing to concider is that people can't easily afford to change deck in my cards, which means that metagame is more stable and decks are much stronger and solid.
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There has still been no reset from the last time various people were duping gold. Having cash does not translate to experience, having cash translates to having cash. The bottom line is, someone with more cash, can afford better cards than someone who doesn't have much cash. They can afford things like Ulaire Nertea, Dark Horseman, Ranger of the White tree, The Witch-King, Captain of the Nine Riders, Morgul Brute, Saved From the Fire, and Goblin Armory, whereas people with less cash cannot afford those things. People with better cards will tend to win more games against people with crappier cards. It has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with access.
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There has still been no reset from the last time various people were duping gold. Having cash does not translate to experience, having cash translates to having cash. The bottom line is, someone with more cash, can afford better cards than someone who doesn't have much cash. They can afford things like Ulaire Nertea, Dark Horseman, Ranger of the White tree, The Witch-King, Captain of the Nine Riders, Morgul Brute, Saved From the Fire, and Goblin Armory, whereas people with less cash cannot afford those things. People with better cards will tend to win more games against people with crappier cards. It has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with access.
+1
Alot of people took advantage of the "zool-situation"
I think there should've been another reset after that, but seeing that alot of people protested against it (very likely those who made huge profits of his abuse), it doesn't seem very likely atm.
Also agree with legion about the mycards<->allcards thingy
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Draino: You have a Ranger of the White Tree ^^
What doesn't help the situation are the non-existant starters for Hunters and Rise of Saruman. You pull one of those S cards as foil and one card gives you at least 1,000 gold, in some cases even 3,500. Add those starters AND reset the prices for those cards immediately and stuff like that isn't going to happen anymore. Or just reset the S card prices by themselves. Just the fact that there is a site nobody can use without being broke after buying should be reason enough to implement those cards already.
And while we're at it... I said this numerous times: Its not about the R cards, its about the player. What use does it have when a player has a bunch of super expensive cards and doesn't know how to use them? This of course counts not for cards like Gondor Bowmen, Aragorn's Bow, Double Shot, PATHS. Those are no-brainers anyone can use. There is a reason most direct damage cards are expensive ^^
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Draino: You have a Ranger of the White Tree ^^
Yep! One of the first singles I ever bought. Thankfully it was cheap(er) then. But this raises a good point: Many folks know that my favorite Expanded deck is a Madril deck (which uses Ranger of the White Tree). The best all-around counter for Madril is Ships of Great Draught. Any deck has a reasonable chance against a Madril deck, if they pack at least TWO Ships of Great Draught. But Ships of Great Draught currently costs 162g. Many players can't afford to invest in a single card that high, let alone in multiple copies of that card, just to counter one deck strategy. You, of course, have four of them (foiled if I recall), because you had the cash to get them. I'm not saying you came by that cash by any sort of foul means. In fact, I believe you came by it legitimately. But the point is this: Because Ships of Great Draught is so expensive, I have an advantage over other players who can't afford it. Because you have as much cash as you do, you have an advantage over me, and also over those other players who can't afford it. This has nothing to do with strategy, and everything to do with access. Because of our access to cards, we are more likely to do well in My Cards events than players who do not have that same access. Thus, success breeds success.
What doesn't help the situation are the non-existant starters for Hunters and Rise of Saruman. You pull one of those S cards as foil and one card gives you at least 1,000 gold, in some cases even 3,500. Add those starters AND reset the prices for those cards immediately and stuff like that isn't going to happen anymore. Or just reset the S card prices by themselves. Just the fact that there is a site nobody can use without being broke after buying should be reason enough to implement those cards already.
That would help with the S-cards, but not with the other stuff. The argument I keep hearing is that deck lists for those decks are not available, but with a little searching I easily found them in three different places:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=6077 (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=6077)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,2527.0.html (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,2527.0.html)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,8330.0.html (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,8330.0.html)
...so maybe we should just start emailing MarcinS and asking him to please implement these?
And while we're at it... I said this numerous times: Its not about the R cards, its about the player. What use does it have when a player has a bunch of super expensive cards and doesn't know how to use them?
And what use is a masterful player, who only has crappy cards available? Clearly both things are important. Winning games comes down to being a good player and having good cards.
This of course counts not for cards like Gondor Bowmen, Aragorn's Bow, Double Shot, PATHS. Those are no-brainers anyone can use. There is a reason most direct damage cards are expensive ^^
...which is exactly my point. The people with more cash have a "no-brainer" advantage over those who have less. That means, as I said, that My Cards events are not an even playing field. All Cards is, Sealed is, but My Cards is not. I think higher prizes should be reserved for events where more players have an even chance of winning those prizes. With My Cards events, those with cash have a distinct advantage.
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You, of course, have four of them (foiled if I recall), because you had the cash to get them.
Yup, because I pulled several Elven Guardian, Ranger of the White Tree and one Orophin, Silvan Elf. The Orophin alone brought 3,500 gold.
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You, of course, have four of them (foiled if I recall), because you had the cash to get them.
Yup, because I pulled several Elven Guardian, Ranger of the White Tree and one Orophin, Silvan Elf. The Orophin alone brought 3,500 gold.
Nice! So, how does that work? Does selling an expensive foil get you 4x the amount that selling a regular version would have?
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Why are there even foil S cards to begin with? They don't exist in the real game. Maybe removing them could help solve the issue?
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You, of course, have four of them (foiled if I recall), because you had the cash to get them.
Yup, because I pulled several Elven Guardian, Ranger of the White Tree and one Orophin, Silvan Elf. The Orophin alone brought 3,500 gold.
Nice! So, how does that work? Does selling an expensive foil get you 4x the amount that selling a regular version would have?
Frankly I have no idea.
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Why are there even foil S cards to begin with? They don't exist in the real game. Maybe removing them could help solve the issue?
Lock S-Foils in attack position!
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Multiple accounts on sealed leagues is obviously still a problem. I refuse to believe that 133 people register an not play a single game.(look at current TT sealed league).
Some don't even make an effort to hide their exploits: see attachement
Really? Do I need to cite the Leagues Rule here?
Cheating:
Cheating will not be tolerated - period.
Cheating includes, but is not limited to - entering League with more than one account, knowingly exploiting a system or a card bug, game fixing (deciding the outcome of a rated game in other way than playing it out) with other players.
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The user who enters a sealed league with multiple accounts is in violation of both the League Rules and the Code of Conduct. I am banning the spam accounts and suspending the main accounts of users who do this. The_Master has well over 100 spam accounts and is responsible for many of the accounts you have circled in red.
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CoS can we get the time reduced between rounds. If we are playing 13 games in 10 days I get that a little more but 10 games in 10 days is just way too long. I usually play my 10 in the first two days and then have to wait over a week for the next round which by that point I have sometimes lost interest and don't even play the a full round out.
I would assume others have found this to be too long of a wait as well.
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Yes, I can adjust the time to play all your seri league games down. However, remember that some people only are able to play on weekends. The current axe dual allows them two weekends to get their games in. If enough folks are interested in shorter seri duration I will cut them down for the next 4-seri league.
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I'm against a shorter time frame. There are days when I'm not able to play a single game due to IRL matters.
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I agree there, Euk. Not everyone has the time available to blast through all their league games in 1-2 days. Sure, it gives you a longer wait time in between, but it's necessary so that all players have a chance to play.
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I'm curious about something. I was browsing over my results for the TTT sealed league, and I noticed something odd. On Serie 3, I had just one loss, to Tonyduva, and that was in the 10th game of that serie. But when I look at the results, that game against him is listed as my 7th.
Winner Loser
bibfortuna Raelag
bibfortuna Dlantz
bibfortuna Linkbreak
bibfortuna RedViper
bibfortuna harold3
bibfortuna marshmelow
Tonyduva bibfortuna
bibfortuna Jolvan
bibfortuna aoki
bibfortuna Snapple
Is there any logic to the organization of these names? It's not alphabetically, nor is it in the order that the games were played.
And then in Serie 4, here were my results:
Winner Loser
jigsaw bibfortuna
Ilfirin bibfortuna
TinkerT bibfortuna
bibfortuna categoryon
bibfortuna chet_manly
bibfortuna elwismw
bibfortuna Miunich
bibfortuna Danny
bibfortuna areefj
bibfortuna shanks008
I certainly didn't lose the first 3 games of that serie, and elwismw was the 10th game I played.
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It must be sorted in some different rule.. Something like ladder standing or % winning.. But now when the server is not working I am worried about playing my last 5 or 4 games...
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I have a proposal regarding the next sealed league, or just for a future one.
To try and have one with just boosters, to make it even more random than it already is, like 2 boosters from from every set (1-10 for example). Might be fun even though alot more luck based.
Thoughts?
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I dont think it will work. Starters are part of LotR Sealed for a reason, they give the necessary basis you need in LotR (also thats why there are draft packs in LotR draft, unlike MtG Draft which is done only with boosters). What if you open 0-1-2 companions? What if you open fellowship cards totally scattered through different cultures (Gondor companions, Rohan possesions, Elven events)? What if you open 0 possessions and support cards for your fellowship, and only get some events that you cant use? You wont be able to build a deck. End result will be too chaotic, and totally not fun for many people.
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I dont think it will work. Starters are part of LotR Sealed for a reason, they give the necessary basis you need in LotR (also thats why there are draft packs in LotR draft, unlike MtG Draft which is done only with boosters). What if you open 0-1-2 companions? What if you open fellowship cards totally scattered through different cultures (Gondor companions, Rohan possesions, Elven events)? What if you open 0 possessions and support cards for your fellowship, and only get some events that you cant use? You wont be able to build a deck. End result will be too chaotic, and totally not fun for many people.
Hehe well it being chaotic was the thought of it all. Obviously you should get a frodo and a ring so that u are able to play atleast. With enough amount of boosters I think its safe to say that u'll get atleast a few companions.
I thought it could be a 1 series league just for fun. Maybe more boosters than what i said even :)
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If you're automatically given a Frodo, a Ring and 9 sites, your idea MIGHT work. But we'd probably need at least 15 boosters per person.
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I like the idea. Sounds entertaining.
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I remember once reading an article about something similar, but with draft packs and boosters on top. You were allowed to bring your choice of Frodo and 9 sites before you opened the packs. It sounded like fun, but I feel without Draft packs (with promos), FotR would be impossible given that the only common companions are Sam, merry and Pippin. Even with 15 boosters, you are not likely to pull more than 1 Boromir, Legolas or Gimli and Gandalf and Aragorn are nigh on impossible.
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MarcinS - has been provided the card lists for both FotR & TT draft packs, he just has not had time to implement draft.
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If you're automatically given a Frodo, a Ring and 9 sites, your idea MIGHT work. But we'd probably need at least 15 boosters per person.
Yes, these have to be included. Forgot to write that :)
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I have a proposal regarding the next sealed league, or just for a future one.
To try and have one with just boosters, to make it even more random than it already is, like 2 boosters from from every set (1-10 for example). Might be fun even though alot more luck based.
Thoughts?
I'm a big fan of this idea; I don't play the current version of sealed much because the inclusion of the starter decks makes the variance between games fairly low.
Obviously having not enough companions/sites is an issue; if I were organizing it, I'd give everyone a companion/site pack containing the common Frodo and One Ring, one (random) site of each number, and some companions. Figuring out how many companions of each rarity should be in the pack would take some thought, but I don't think it's insurmountable.
In MTG, you generally get 6 packs (84 cards) and usually use around 23, so to make a 60-card LotR deck, you'd probably want to open somewhere around 220 cards, or 20 packs. In a league, it would probably work to start with around 15, and then open another 5 packs or so each round.
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Bring it up to MarcinS, maybe he'll program it. Don't forget, that in a draft for instance, the deck count is lower and the discard pile can be shuffled back into the draw deck once.
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Bring it up to MarcinS, maybe he'll program it. Don't forget, that in a draft for instance, the deck count is lower and the discard pile can be shuffled back into the draw deck once.
Is email the best way to get in touch with him? I assume based on your comment that he doesn't read this forum.
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That is correct.
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For what it's worth, I'm in favor of reducing league round time span...
I would say 8 days is fine, as long as all new leagues are synchronized to start on Fridays, so that weekends are guaranteed.
At least you could consider that for leagues having 4 rounds...
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As said before, including from me, not all players have the time to get their games in 2 days. If there is a higher demand for this though, we'll discuss it.
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Expanded All Cards League just ended.
Looking through this thread, it's looking like it's been something like seven months since the last Expanded All Cards League. Any idea when we might get another one?
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The next All Cards League will feature Expanded.
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Yay!
But hmmm... that's not quite the same as saying it will be Expanded, is it? Is this another one of those deals where Expanded is relegated to 1 of something like 4 series, where the other three I don't have as much interest in?
How about something along the same lines as what Movie is getting until March? 4 series with an additional set added each time?
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I think 10 days is a fine timeline. I like to go all OCD and pretend I'm in a tourney and get my 10 games in one day but I respect that other people can't spend a whole day playing LOTR. I mean if you're going to go for 8 days what is two more?