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King Standard / Re: Circus Show! Rohan / Mumaks
« Last post by Phallen Cassidy on March 24, 2023, 10:11:51 AM »
Even though Arrow-slits and Heavy Chain are in the deck for a fully armed Easterling Captain, I still use them against other decks. I've removed The Pale Blade or a copy of Hides at a crucial moment, for example, and Heavy Chain is good for the clowns to tank all sorts of hits. Of course, maybe with Rohirrim Bow I wouldn't need to tank hits. I do already have Eomer to juggle troublesome minions anyway, I can see how they wouldn't be necessary. When Eomer dies I can give any of the clowns Brego (or even Firefoot) and keep the trick going.

I did think about Windfola, there's enough healing to make it work. I could even exert Eowyn twice, ditch Windfola and the blade, then use Merry to replay the blade and Brego for a heal and then discard Brego (to replay Windfola next turn). Eowyn winds up at 15 strength having wounded a fierce minion three times (initial exert from the mount, then two wounds) and it wouldn't require any cards from hand. In my current setup that would be overkill since I can play Dernhelm's Blade 3 times without much trouble, though if someone wanted to build the deck without being a psychopath I think there's potential for that little loop. Now that you mention it, I don't have a deck with Windfola yet and I'm always looking for ways to exploit the unexploited :P Hmm...

Bold and Grim hasn't let me down consistently, just when I've wanted it most. The trouble with Bold and Grim for this deck specifically is I'm pretty much banking on opponents using Hall of the Kings to get themselves up to 4 threats at City Gates*. Often, people will add 3 threats at site 3 so that site 5 ends up removing a threat, which means I can't play it at 5. I may not be able to play it at 4 or 6 since my minions are so expensive, and then I'm probably not going to be able to get a kill at 7 because of the sanctuary healing so it'd just be a threat and maybe force the FP to keep a splashed companion around for the next turn. Sites 8 and 9 could still be high impact though... Site 9 especially, with a baseline of 3 threats from Dagorlad, Southron Captain would almost assure a kill in the first skirmish and let me remove a troublesome companion for the fierce round. I think I've never kept it in hand that long, I should give it a shot.

I don't typically get overwhelms unless the FP sends an exceptionally weak character up to save their primary skirmishers. Southron Captain gets most of the overwhelms, humorously enough, since his damage bonus will kill anyway so he may as well kill a weakling. For most skirmishing companions 20 isn't enough and I'm not even hitting that very often. I could try to go in that direction by removing Whirling Strike and Red Wrath for 4 more pumps -- an unexpected +6 would probably do it, especially when people expect 5 twilight to mean Red Wrath and give me their full vitality Aragorn or Gandalf. I think to really try and make that happen would probably require a mumak / twilight build with everything else stripped out, though. The main thing this Shadow does so far is funnel wounds onto the FP's strongest companions and make it so the threat of having another big Southron (or two!) in play makes them stay put in the regroup phase.

Desert Legion isn't there for his text, he's a Southron Captain with ambush for when I have 3 or fewer threats. I will see burdens stack up sometimes since 4 is usually a safe number with no consequences and I am playing with threats, but never played him with more than 4 and he's not worth keeping just for those fringes. Him and Southron Troop are the highest strength ambush minions there are, is why I've kept them around. I don't know if the twilight they refund have ever mattered though.

As I think about it, the biggest problem for me is that I have so much fun wounding minions with Dernhelm's Blade that I forget about everything else XD I've played probably 2 dozen matches and I have little recollection of their end results. But! I found some replays of one of the earliest versions that I had used in a competitive league on Gemp. It's got Desert Nomad and Desert Fighter on the Shadow side and Mustering for Battle on the FP side (as well as other, more perplexing choices XD). The deck was 42/42 yet had enough cycling that it wasn't a huge downside... usually.

Surprisingly enough, here's one where a Desert Nomad kills Arwen, Fair Elf Maiden!

Another where everything worked on both sides, the clowns enabled some pretty bold doubles to 6 and 8. Against a Merry's Sword / Rohirrim Bow deck, of all things.

And one against one of those Easterling decks I mentioned.

A close loss against a large fellowship. I think this would have been avoidable with a slimmer deck, I got stopped at 2 and couldn't return the favor, then foolishly discarded my only minion when reconciling my Shadow hand at 5 and let them double unopposed to 7 next turn.

Unfortunately I didn't save the decklist... It definitely plays differently than it does now, in part because of the extra 10 cards. I've always been pretty unimpressed by minions in the 8-10 strength range, I'm not sure why. I've seen them used against me to great effect and clearly they did well in these replays too. I guess when it came time to trim the deck, I played favorites with the big guys :P

I'm a fan of the ideas above too, though. Southron Marksman in particular is interesting, I always discounted him since he's already fierce and that's what Mumaks provide. However, if I can play a big mumak plus Marksman, I get two fierce minions for only one mount. And if I up the threat adding, turning the extras into wounds early might mean more kills later since Frodo will have already taken some archery hits. And this might be an interesting deck for Arrow from the South, which would let Marksman turn 4 threats into wounds instead of just 2. It's not necessarily incompatible with Southron Assassin, either. Just means tearing out some beatdown minions as William suggests to make room -- something I didn't want to do because I thought it would lessen the effectiveness, but clearly not!

This would bring the deck back closer to where it started, which is a pretty big shift from where I've taken it... Now that it comes to it, I don't feel like parting with it. After all, Why Shouldn't I Keep It? It seems to me there's 2 or 3 decks to be explored here instead of just one.
King Standard / Re: KS Southron archers & Mumaks
« Last post by Phallen Cassidy on March 23, 2023, 11:26:16 AM »
Sure, that would be pretty interesting! As you have discovered I have lots of opinions :P Some of it depends on the competitiveness of the players and the fullness of everyone's collection, but since you have trouble with Vilya anyway it seems the answer to both is "very."
Expanded / Re: High King loop/telepathy - Nazgul
« Last post by Shelobplayer on March 22, 2023, 10:14:57 AM »
We have a huge resurgence of LOTR TCG in my area, and I started revisiting my old decks. This one was no exception.

Now I think I might create a version that does not include [Gandalf] but maybe has a stronger [Rohan] splash.

Starting fellowship could be Gamling, DOTH + Eomer, Forthwith Banished + Ordulus + Smeagol. This would allow Simbelmyne, as well as potentially discarding and replaying Celebring. Simbelmyne also allows te usage of Leowyn + Weland, which I had amazing success with in various builds. Mounts can be Asfaloth + Brego. Another amazing pull for this deck with Simbelmyne which I never considered is Eowyn, Lady of Rohan. She provides amazing protection for Gil-Galad.

Another thing I also want to experiment with is Voice of Nimrodel + Songs of the Blessed Realm. The deck has easy acces to Uruviel, Woodland Maid and HKOTN recycles Voice of Nimrodel. This in turn makes The Great Ring stronger too.
Valinor / Re: Bad Gemp Players' List
« Last post by Witchkingx5 on March 19, 2023, 08:01:13 AM »
There seems to be a sense that the Code of Conduct does not matter as the sanctions are not applied.

The fact that Allan2020 and his IP are still not restricted is the ultimate proof for that.
Fellowship / Re: The best Deck for current GEMP Metagame
« Last post by Witchkingx5 on March 19, 2023, 07:56:50 AM »
My bad, I forgot that it links the new sites, I'll try to fix that. ;)
Fellowship / Re: The best Deck for current GEMP Metagame
« Last post by Ringbearer on March 19, 2023, 04:23:05 AM »
The original Green Dragon Inn for FOTR block just required a single exertion. The one you linked is from Shadows and further.
Fellowship / Re: The best Deck for current GEMP Metagame
« Last post by pepenzie on March 18, 2023, 11:48:39 AM »
Coming to the game back from very long hiatus and I have a dumb question:  How do you use Green Dragon Inn when u start with Frodo, Lego and Arwen?
Thank you Phallen for the very informative answer (as always). I'll keep that in mind since my friends and I are currently reviewing our private X-list for King Standard. For now we are mostly extending to the cards included in the Open X-list but we are considering adding a few more and maybe removing 1 or 2.

You are right about Mustering for Battle regarding Rohan (I included it in my own deck as a matter of fact), though as you said, it's likely to be a 1-off since a double exertion might be tough. In this regard, it's fairer since it allows an exchange with the shadow player cards, while Swordthain is basically eternal, immediate recursion. Likewise, as far as I know no Rohan card allows skirmish recursion, so Swordthain not only nullifies cards such as Uruk Spear in maneuver but also other discard effects such as Lieutenant of Dol Guldur in skirmish. That's also where I feel a bit uneasy.

Wearer of Black and Silver is more limited indeed, but in ring-bound rangers deck, Mablung must exert twice to exhaust then kill the minion he is facing, so you need plenty of healing to make him reliable and a copy of Ranger's Bow. Stand to Arms is a similar effect for (0) but it requires initiative and can only be used once. Pippin, on the other hand, is a tremendous help every turn, just by himself, for only [1] . The cost benefit ratio seems definitely a bit off, compared to former sets, though Pippin is definitely more niche. Indirect wounds absorption set aside, even.

Merry's Sword I do not like much, indeed. Third Marshal of Riddermark was already plenty strong on his own, and with a pump. Besides, anything that can easily counter Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul is tricky since it helps deck to circumvent the "rule" of 5. Of course, it wouldn't work against Greed, but it could still nullify Southron Commander by killing him with Rohirrim Bow afterward (though the required extra card makes it fairer). It also feels like a color pie break for Rohan, like we called it in MTG. Ithilien Trap was similar in effect but it at least required a long setup and could be discarded easily since it is a condition (unique, besides).

Anyway, I do not like those 3 cards much... :( Based on all the answers to this post, I'll discuss some more with my friends and see if we decide to add them to our private X-list. Thanks a lot!
King Standard / Re: KS Southron archers & Mumaks
« Last post by WilliamFox on March 17, 2023, 08:38:22 PM »
Yes, I'll keep 1 copy for now and see how it goes. It'd be sad to let it go completely, though I do not exclude this option anymore. :(

It's funny you mention Vilya and your personal ban list. My friends and I have been talking recently about making a few adjustments to KS X-list to make the environment healthier. Vilya is one such adjustment, among others. While I think that only a handful of changes would be sufficient, it'd be very cool to hear what the community thinks. Would you be interested in this discussion, if I start a thread?

PS: I have answered to the best of my limited knowledge to your other post
King Standard / Re: Circus Show! Rohan / Mumaks
« Last post by WilliamFox on March 17, 2023, 08:27:57 PM »
Disclaimer: I am an amateur player so please take my comments with a grain of salt.

Very interesting deck idea on the FP side ! Sword-swallowing Eowyn is one I had never seen. Nice to see Brace of Coneys, I've also been including them in my decks recently in my effort to cut Son of Hamfast (though I picked Sorry About Everything when there's enough healing, for the reduced twilight). (REMOVED : re-reading the thread I don't think it'd make sense to part from Guma and Ecglaf to save up the space from the 2x Well Stored). You have already mentioned it, but I would also have proposed a bit of archery with Rohirrim Bow, which would pair nicely with Dernhelm's Blade and can be recurred. On the other hand, I wouldn't know what to cut without harming your current synergies. Maybe Heavy Chain and Arrow-slits? It seems those are two of the most situational cards since you put them there for one specific encounter and you can't recur Arrow-slits. Else you could replace Proper Poet with Son of Hamfast and free up 2 slots by removing the 2x Brace of Coneys... That set aside, you might want to look at Windfola, since it would allow Eowyn to wound a fierce minion once more for an emergency kill (emergency, since it'd put you at risk during the next turn if not on a sanctuary for Hate, Whirling Strike or any other directed wounding).

For the shadow side, if you wanna go threats I'm at loss. :( The cards I would mention, you already tried (not a surprise coming from you though). I have always had the same unease for Bold Men and Grim (I understand that the effect is very strong but it already requires a very accurate timing to be used since it lasts only 1 turn, so the extra cost requirement of 1 threat seems overly strict). That being said, you do not have much threat generation in your current deck and quite a few big minions so I think it could be worth keeping 1 copy just in case. Has it failed you consistently? I'm interested in knowing.

Fair Elf Maiden is a pain for all fierce minions, certainly. With the amount of healing those decks usually have (Herald to Gil-Galad, Lady of the Golden Wood, Shadow Between), it might even be difficult to get her into Whirling Strike / Red Wrath zone. I might have suggested more directed archery but then your deck would look like mine haha (I find it quite nice to shape a bit the battlefield). Still, losing a few potential wounds from big minions (do you actually overwhelm often with those?) to simply add a few more threats with Desert Villain remains an option since eventually those should translate to wounds as well (either at companion kill or with damage bonuses) plus maybe some bonus skirmish wounds. It'd make your main killer Southron Captain more reliable and unlock Southron Marksmen which may be useful to hasten threat "cycling" as well as make companions more vulnerable to skirmish wounding / loss.

I would personally reduce a bit the big skirmishers and some of their support cards to make place for those, something like:

-1 Army of Haradrim
-1 Southron Troop
-2 Desert Legion (you do not play Pelennor Flat*, do you often see 4 burdens?)
-1 Southron Traveler
-1 Mumak
-1 Raider Halberd

+1 Desert Lord
+2 Southron Marksmen
+3 Desert Villain
+1 War Towers

That would make it 10 mumak bearers for 5 mumaks, +3 recursions with Army of Haradrim, and you'd be +1 minion overall. With this ratio, I believe you would still have some opportunities to put a Mumak on a Desert Villain for double threat generation when you do not draw your big guys. You might want to switch 1 Desert Stalker for 1 Southron Commander.

Otherwise, have you tried something with Trample and Fierce in Despair? Since you have plenty of Mumaks, and 2 surviving minions wouldn't be that rare of an occurrence (I suppose?), it could be an interesting combo. Southron Bandit could support you there too, I guess.

Sorry I can't help you as much as you helped me, but that's what I'd try for a first mumak / threat deck with my limited knowledge.
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