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Author Topic: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...  (Read 22009 times)

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January 16, 2009, 02:44:02 AM
Reply #15

Pepin The Breve

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2009, 02:44:02 AM »
      About the Goblin Scimitar and •Greatest Kingdom of My People playing timing... The correct order of the events should be play scavenger -> discard the top card of the draw deck (since it´s is a required action) -> after that you draw one card with scimitar text (since it´s a optional action due to the word "may").  Same thing with Goblin Warrior and Greatest Kingdom. You first discard a card from the top of the draw deck then you may use Goblin Warrior text and discard the condition.

      I´m just not sure about the spoting thing with the allies. I can´t remember nothing in the rulebook that states that they can´t be spotted as a race, I think they can, but i´m not sure about that.

     Hope that helps. If someone finds something in the rulebook about the ally stuff let us know!

« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 03:03:13 AM by Pepin The Breve »

January 16, 2009, 02:56:19 AM
Reply #16

TheJord

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2009, 02:56:19 AM »
From the rulebook "Allies do not count as members of your fellowship"

In the case of Goblin Warrior and Greatest Kingdom of my People, GKomP responds to the cost of playing the Goblin Warrior, then the effect of playing Goblin Warrior happens.
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January 16, 2009, 03:10:29 AM
Reply #17

Gil-Estel

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2009, 03:10:29 AM »
And yeah, allies have a race and thus can be spotted. Or the event/special ability says: number of races in a fellowship :D
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January 16, 2009, 04:07:35 AM
Reply #18

Pepin The Breve

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2009, 04:07:35 AM »
 
And yeah, allies have a race and thus can be spotted. Or the event/special ability says: number of races in a fellowship :D

  In fact his text says that  :)

   I have take a look at the rulebook and it seems Jord get it right cause "Each player has his own fellowship, made up of a Ring-bearer and other companions." and "Allies do not count as members of your fellowship."

   That doesn´t mean you can´t spot their races, but the line "...in the fellowship" prevent you for counting them in this case.

January 16, 2009, 05:35:16 AM
Reply #19

Gil-Estel

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 05:35:16 AM »
What I meant was that some cards make you spot any number of races, in that case you can spot all you allies. But I could think that there was a card that would say: spot any number of races IN your fellowship...But I guess I was just showing off, wanted to contribute to the debate...;D
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January 16, 2009, 06:07:36 AM
Reply #20

Kralik

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 06:07:36 AM »
I always liked the ability to spot allies with The Last Alliance of Elves and Men... ;D

January 16, 2009, 06:48:12 AM
Reply #21

Elessar's Socks

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2009, 06:48:12 AM »
2) Which card is discarded and which one is taking into the shadow's player (this doesn't seem to matter much but I'd like to know for the understanding of these actions mechanism..) when:
a Goblin Scavengers is played bringing an Goblin Scimitar and there's a •Greatest Kingdom of My People in play. Is the top card of the deck discarded and then the next one drawn, or is it something someone can choose..
GKoMP has priority because it's a required action, whereas Goblin Scavengers is optional. If a situation arises where several required actions must take place, the Free Peoples player gets to decide the order. The "action" entry has more details.

Quote
PD= I've been discarding •Greatest Kingdom of My People AND a top deck card whenever a Goblin Warrior is played. I want to make sure it's right.
To expand things a bit, let's say Goblin Warrior was reworded to be a required action so that it's able to resolve first, discarding GKoMP. In this case GKoMP will still get to discard a card. This is because both cards triggered when the Orc hit the table; even though GKoMP has been discarded, its action in the "queue" must still be resolved (it doesn't "fizzle").

January 16, 2009, 01:22:45 PM
Reply #22

daisukeman

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2009, 01:22:45 PM »
OK.. convinced enough. Thanks, although I want to know what APNAP from Mtg is ...
Sicne all he's getting is instant, I'd just go with APNAP from MtG, at least ...
--------------------------------
About:
GKoMP has priority because it's a required action, whereas Goblin Scavengers is optional. If a situation arises where several required actions must take place, the Free Peoples player gets to decide the order. The "action" entry has more details.
and since you expanded the topic, say there are more cards that trigger with words such as "each time" from both players in play (suppose several conditions).
Then what, the freep gets to decide to trigger all of his first or are they given as entwined (is it intertwined????) actions? (I mean, first one of the freep, then one of the shadow, then one of shadow player 2 if there is, etc.. then again one from the freep...¿?).

I can't think of a case right now, but I'm pretty sure I've seen something critic come up at moments like this with the simultneous triggering of multiple conditions--- like those triggered when the freep loses initiave.. (10 uncommon cards mainly).--
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January 17, 2009, 03:41:07 AM
Reply #23

Elessar's Socks

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2009, 03:41:07 AM »
For required actions, the FP player chooses what order they happen (the triggering itself isn't a choice), regardless of whether the actions originate from FP or Shadow cards. Optional actions follow the action procedure, which just means the FP and Shadow players alternate performing actions, with the FP player getting to go first. (If there are several Shadow players, the opportunity to perform actions continues counter-clockwise around the table.) Players may choose to pass on performing optional actions when it's their chance to go.

January 19, 2009, 06:20:02 AM
Reply #24

daisukeman

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2009, 06:20:02 AM »
yes.. alternate. that was the word I was looking for.
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January 19, 2009, 07:03:28 AM
Reply #25

Celebrimbor

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2009, 07:03:28 AM »
GKoMP has priority because it's a required action, whereas Goblin Scavengers is optional. If a situation arises where several required actions must take place, the Free Peoples player gets to decide the order. The "action" entry has more details.

I have to say something about this...According to the rulebook, whenever the free peoples player and the shadows player could do an action at the exact same time, (when a minion is played) the free peoples player is first, then play alternates for multiple actions.  The exact same thing goes for skirmish: actions, maneuver: actions, and response: actions.

Of course, if an action is a required action, it still needs to happen, but in timing conflicts the FPP gets the first action.

Hoped I could clear this up a bit.
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January 19, 2009, 07:06:08 AM
Reply #26

FM

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2009, 07:06:08 AM »
NOW that I see the solution D gave it, I think it IS more suited to LotR than "borrowing" APNAP system from MtG, since it wouldn't work so great in a game that has a small interaction in-between actions (meaning specifically a really small number of Response actions).

January 19, 2009, 07:13:35 AM
Reply #27

Elessar's Socks

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2009, 07:13:35 AM »
GKoMP has priority because it's a required action, whereas Goblin Scavengers is optional. If a situation arises where several required actions must take place, the Free Peoples player gets to decide the order. The "action" entry has more details.

I have to say something about this...According to the rulebook, whenever the free peoples player and the shadows player could do an action at the exact same time, (when a minion is played) the free peoples player is first, then play alternates for multiple actions.  The exact same thing goes for skirmish: actions, maneuver: actions, and response: actions.

Of course, if an action is a required action, it still needs to happen, but in timing conflicts the FPP gets the first action.

Hoped I could clear this up a bit.
Required actions do not follow the action procedure. Here's the part in the rulebook I'm looking at:

Quote
If two or more required actions are occurring at the same time (for example, more than one "start of turn" action), the Free Peoples player decides in which order they occur.

All required actions responding to a particular trigger are performed before any optional actions. After all such required actions have resolved, players may perform optional actions responding to that same trigger using the action procedure.

January 22, 2009, 08:26:50 AM
Reply #28

daisukeman

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2009, 08:26:50 AM »
yes, I think ES's quote from the rule book fits to it.
I'm gonna follow this answer..
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January 29, 2009, 04:31:59 AM
Reply #29

Elessar's Socks

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Re: QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERING...
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2009, 04:31:59 AM »
To expand things a bit, let's say Goblin Warrior was reworded to be a required action so that it's able to resolve first, discarding GKoMP. In this case GKoMP will still get to discard a card. This is because both cards triggered when the Orc hit the table; even though GKoMP has been discarded, its action in the "queue" must still be resolved (it doesn't "fizzle").
Actually, I might need to correct that. If an action is triggered, does it resolve if the card is discarded first?

Example: Corsair Marauder is played. FP player kills him with Shadowplay / Unheeded. Does the Shadow player get to discard a possession?

Similarly, if the costs are paid, are the effects performed if the card is discarded first?

Example: Ulaire Enquea, LoM exerts to wound a companion. FP player responds to the exertion with Unheeded, killing Enquea. Does a companion still take a wound?