Other Ring-bearers

[Tempest123]

Boromir Bearer of Council text ,as you al know , ...at start of each skirmish add 3 burdens or wound him twice .
Anyway my question is if he has for example ring of rings can he put 2 burdens instead of those 2 wounds .

I tried to say to some ppl as far as I know that it can't be done cos adding 3 b or 2 w is the requirment that needs to be fulfilled but anyway I'm writing this just to double check .

[TheJord]

There is another thread regarding prevention with optional effects.

Basically, if you prevent one effect you must perform the other. Preventing his wounds with burdens would mean taking 2 burdens, then having to take the 3 burdens anyway.

[Gil-Estel]

But you're not preventing, not directly, it is just taking instead. I'd say this is allowed, but I'm not sure.

[King89]

TJ is right.

[Elrohir]

If The Sapling prevents a wound of Boromirs drawback, you have to take burdens. Crazy...

But why do we have to take three burdens if we use the ring of rings?

[King89]

If The Sapling prevents a wound of Boromirs drawback, you have to take burdens. Crazy...

But why do we have to take three burdens if we use the ring of rings?

because, as thejord said, if you prevent one effect, you have to perform the other. and if you pull on the ring, you DO prevent an effect. it exactly the same with e.g. morgul brute: if the fp player decides to take the wound and prevents this wound, he or she has to take a burden.

i think there is somewhere a ruling in the rule book... but forgot where 

[TheJord]

K89, you pretty much said it anyway, the ruling about optional effects and preventing one means doing the other, they use the Morgul Brute / Sapling of the White Tree example

[Elrohir]

Yes, but the one ring does not prevent anything.

[FM]

I'm still not very happy with the explanation they give, I think it's a huge flaw. For isntance, if the Ring-bearer CANNOT take wounds for any reason, THEN it'd work, you can't "choose" that option, it's not given to you. However, I fail to see why can't you choose an option and circunvent it. The Ring, for instance. You are not PREVENTING the wounds, you're actually TRANSFORMING them, you ARE taking the wounds, you just take them in the form of burdens. This ruligs is really really weird.

[Elessar's Socks]

Socks too has lost his orientation. Someone stop the spin cycle.

Some responses are performed when a described situation is "about to" happen. Typically, only one such response can be performed in a given situation, because its effect will "prevent" that situation or replace it with another effect "instead."

I think "instead" is not equivalent to "prevent." Otherwise, why not just write The Ring of Rings as "...add a burden to prevent this"? If the Ring-bearer is soaking up archery at Steward's Tomb, I think the Ring can still do its trick. The Ring isn't "preventing" (in game context) wounds... more like, converting them.

Here's the Morgul Destroyer / Sapling of the White Tree example that was brought up:

If something happens to prevent one effect which in turn would have prevented a second effect, the second effect is performed.

Morgul Destroyer is played.("When you play this minion, you may spot a Nazgûl to add 2 threats. The Free Peoples player may wound the Ring-bearer to prevent this.") The Free Peoples player wounds the Ring-bearer to prevent the threats from being added. The Free Peoples player then discards Sapling of the White Tree. ("Response: If a Man is about to take a wound, discard this artifact to prevent that.") Because Sapling has prevented the effect (a wound) that would have prevented Morgul Destroyer's effect, the threats are now added.

You could argue that "prevent" here is being used as a general term... but if you look at Morgul Destroyer, it all matches up perfectly with the game term. The Destroyer does NOT say "The Free Peoples player may wound the Ring-bearer instead."

Maybe there are other things to consider. But I don't think the Destroyer example proves that Boromir has to take the other 3 burdens. If anything, it seems that The Ring of Rings offers him a way out with only 2 burdens, converted from the 2 wounds.

[Gil-Estel]

Thank you...my point exactly

[Kralik]

Similarly... can Faramir, BoQ use the Ring of Rings for his wound gametext?

[Gil-Estel]

I don't see why not?

[Elf_Lvr]

I think the "instead" text is different than the "prevent" text. In that, for costs, a prevention causes the cost not to be paid, but doing something "instead" still pays the cost.

[Thranduil]

Similarly... can Faramir, BoQ use the Ring of Rings for his wound gametext?

That's a different issue which is not Morgul Brute related. If he's wearing the ring, then he HAS to take a burden instead of the wound.

Also, I think the Boromir case is different from Morgul Brute because the case of preventing one action and being forced to do the other only applies in the specific case of "Do X. You may do Y to prevent X." Bearer of Council does not have that, it's simply "Do X or Y". Similarly, if you had Ulaire Toldea, Winged Sentry winning a skirmish, the Free Peoples player can choose to exert a companion and play Strength of Spirit: this does not mean that the burden is added instead, because the exertion is not "preventing" anything. If, however, Winged Sentry was worded "... add a burden. The Free Peoples player may exert a companion to prevent that." then playing Strength of Spirit adds the burden because the exertion was to prevent the burden and if you haven't exerted, you haven't prevented anything.

Thranduil