Sauron/Guls Bleed

[Pepin The Breve]

  My   wounding deck always had a problem of running out of minions in the end and in controling freeps over-population, so i came up with this idea: Splash some useful cards in to solve those problems and raise it's effectiveness. The idea is that sometimes fierce guls can do some extra wounds and Enquea helps in crowding control. Black Breath help a lot, even when got discarded after one or two turns. Ferny is there to mess up with alernate RB. Skulker put the minions back in the action (or some discarded Black Breath).

  The sauron guys are pretty self-explanatory: Reduce site number for more fun ate earlier sites, discard some conditions and let Slaughterer do what he does best.  

  Minions (24):
- Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul (1U231) X2
- Ulaire Cantea, Lieutenant of Dol Guldur (1R230) X2
- Ulaire Toldea, Winged Sentry (6R88) X2
- Orc Slaughterer (10R95) X4
- Orc Archer Troop (7U294) X2
- Orc Patrol (5U107) X2
- Gate Sentry (6C102) X2
- Grishnakh, Orc Captain (5R100)
- Orc Cutthroat (5U104) X2
- Morgul Skulker (1U258) X4
- Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow (2R75)
 
 Artifact, Possessions, Conditions (5):
- Ithil Stone (9R+47)
- Grond, Hammer of the Underworld (8R103)
- Black Breath (1U207) X3
 
 Events (6):
- Hate (1R250) X4
- Mordor's Strength (1C255) X2

  Total: 35 cards

  I'm planing to pair with Gondor-Gandy "choke" althoug i sense that may clog my hand badly...

  Suggestions are welcome (and expected)!

[ket_the_jet]

It may help to run four copies of Under the Watching Eye. This is what I run, although I do like the Nazgul idea.

I think Orc Archer Troop is probably too expensive...why not just run Desert Lord?

Shadow (31):
Grishnakh, Orc Captain x3
Orc Patrol x2
Orc Cutthroat x2
Orc Seeker x2
Orc Assassin x2
Tower Assassin
Desert Lord
Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul x2
Gollum, Dark as Darkness

Hate x4
Terrible as the Dawn
Captured By the Ring x3

Under the Watching Eye x4
They Stole It x2
Final Strike

Hope this helps!
-wtk

[Pepin The Breve]

That is somehow simliar to the deck i have (without the Gollum twist). What i found having played with i several times is that you can get your hand cloged with Under the Watching Eye and that the deck becomes very vunerable to condition discard / direct wound / archery. If my copies of Enquea came in early i'm doomed against big fellows (without Skulker to put them back).

But other than all that the main reason is: The best way to complement direct wounding is to be able to win skirmishes!!! I always look for better ways to make freep exert, do some direct wound, etc., but the most effective way i ever found is to play minions that actually are able to also win skirmishes and stay at table (maybe for Grond). one or two st 11 minions do nothing to stop many of the fellows but the beastly Orc Slaughterer + Mordor Strenght do! Archers Troop goes a little in that way also (altought Desert Lord could be very interesting also). I just prefer to focus on Minions to be sure i will have the right minions to not clog my hand with events, and with luck, put tokens on Grond and discard stuff.

All that cause i always liked the sauron ability in discard stuff without need too many extra cards (Grond and the minions theyself do the trick).

Gollum, DaD + They Stole It seems a nice idea, specially adding threats with Captured by the Ring, cause it make possible to "unclog" my hand of extra cards in case i run against choke.

Anyway thanks forthe comments!

[ket_the_jet]

I've been playing this deck for years and it has few holes. Sure, Ithil Stone or Grond, Hammer of the Underworld might be nice additions, but I want to keep the deck small.

They Stole It is wonderful. Tower Assassin kills the random ally that comes up. And no one expects Terrible As the Dawn!
-wtk

[Alazzar]

I agree with adding Desert Lords and Tower Assassins; in fact, I'd even go so far as to say 3 Desert Lords and 2 Tower Assassins, if you can make room.

Desert Lords are SO good in a Hate deck.  Desert Lord on one site, Hate on the next site, bam -- dead companion.  It's just too good to pass up.

The Tower Assassins are nice because the healing you're most likely to run into will come in either the form of Conditions or Allies (being that healing Events generally don't see a lot of play -- anyone that uses healing generally wants to have it as a permanent resource so it can be reused).  This means that things like Shadow Between, Leowyn, and Elrond, Herald to Gil-galad will all be problems for you.  You've got conditions covered with Orc Patrols and Gate Sentries, but allies like Leowyn will ruin your day.  A few Tower Assassins should help with the problem, and they're a strength-11 for 4 twilight, so they're a decent deal as far as the strength:twilight ratio goes.

Another decent (yet often overlooked) splash minion for this type of deck is the Orthanc Champion.  Between Desert Lords and Hates, you can make it so that companions can't deny his assignment action, thus giving you another easy kill.  Or, even if they can exert to resist the assignment, you might get a wound for the exertion and two wounds for him winning the skirmish.  Three wounds in one card (for only 5 twilight, no less) is a heck of a deal.

As Ket said, you could also add more Sauron conditions to your deck for extra wounds.  But if you're going to go that route and include Under the Watching Eye x4, you might as well also throw in Orc Bowmen x4 and Dead Marshes x2.  Yeah, you'll be vulnerable to mass condition removal, but Dead Marshes helps in the rescue efforts of your support area, and Gandalf will be your first target for Desert Lord/Orthanc Champion/Hate madness, so you might be able to take him out before he draws into a Grown Suddenly Tall or Sleep, Caradhras.

Personally, I'd pass on Terrible as the Dawn, being that it's so situational.  There are SO many cards that need to be in this deck that you can't really spare a slot on a "fun/unexpected" card.

Unless, wait... is Galadriel, Lady Redeemed legal in Movie Block?  I forget (I never actually play Movie Block).  If so, then yeah, you would probably wanna run a Terrible as the Dawn if you end up going the condition-heavy route.

To summarize:  there are a ton of different directions to go with this deck.  You've just gotta decide which one you like best.  =P

Edit:  Whoops, I meant Orthanc Champion, not Assassin.  Hopefully I fixed it before anyone noticed.  =P

[Kralik]

Personally, I'd pass on Terrible as the Dawn, being that it's so situational.  There are SO many cards that need to be in this deck that you can't really spare a slot on a "fun/unexpected" card.

Yes, LR is allowed, but I don't see her in play much. More like a "gentleman's agreement" not to play her. However, since Elves seem popular, Terrible as the Dawn might be worth one slot to deal with Galadriel BoW.

[Cw0rk]

I think 4 Morgul Skulker may be a bit too much, especially because you have 24 minions. Some of them are big and you risk to have your hand stuffed with minions you can't play due to lack of twilight at some point. Black Breath is a good idea but the Sauron culture already has a card that prevent healing on sanctuaries.

[Alazzar]

Kralik hit it on the head...Terrible As the Dawn is beautiful against Galadriel, Bearer of Wisdom. Then you don't have to worry about Company of Archers...

What a deal!
-wtk

The thing is, Galadriel, BoW is what I was thinking of when I first said that I didn't think Terrible as the Dawn was worth the card slot.  It wasn't until a moment later that I realized that card may have been included to deal with Lady Redeemed.

I mean, I get that blasting the ring-bearer with directed wounds can be awesome, but my point was that Terrible as the Dawn is 100% useless against any other deck (if no one plays Lady Redeemed, as Kralik said).  Don't get me wrong, I've definitely put situational cards into decks with the sole purpose of dealing with a single other decktype, but that was usually because I either A) had the slot to spare or B) would lose to that decktype if I didn't tech against it.  I just think that this particular deck already requires so many support cards (if you go the condition-heavy route, that is) that you can't afford the slot for a situational event.

[Pepin The Breve]

I think 4 Morgul Skulker may be a bit too much, especially because you have 24 minions. Some of them are big and you risk to have your hand stuffed with minions you can't play due to lack of twilight at some point. Black Breath is a good idea but the Sauron culture already has a card that prevent healing on sanctuaries.

That card could also be nice if not by the "except an elf" at his game text... and there is always gondor and hobbits who aren't exactly "masters od condition discard" but can have lots of healing power.

Yes, maybe it would be a good idea remove one skulker. i'm thinking in get out one Nazgul Also...

I love Terrible as the Dawn, but like Alazzar i don't intend to get a card that can only be effective in few situations (don't forgot that Galadriel, BoW usually uses ATAR and her ring...) and other than that my opponent can just discard 2 badly beaten companions (and maybe replace them with new copies later on) what can be bad for my shadows...

[ket_the_jet]

I love Terrible as the Dawn, but like Alazzar i don't intend to get a card that can only be effective in few situations (don't forgot that Galadriel, BoW usually uses ATAR and her ring...) and other than that my opponent can just discard 2 badly beaten companions (and maybe replace them with new copies later on) what can be bad for my shadows...

Play Terrible As the Dawn during any maneuver phase and it is cycled. Pay the cost for no effect. No big deal. It is always worth having one copy.

And to Pepin's comment about The One Ring, Answer to All Riddles, I play Gollum, Dark as Darkness so the Ring-Bearer is always at least a bit exerted!
-wtk

[Alazzar]

Play Terrible As the Dawn during any maneuver phase and it is cycled. Pay the cost for no effect. No big deal. It is always worth having one copy.

The point wasn't that Terrible as the Dawn gets stuck in your hand, it's that most of the time you'll draw it, you'll wish you'd drawn something that you could actually use.

[Alazzar]

Normally, I might not make such a big deal about a single card slot; it's just that I feel a deck of this type doesn't really have any card slots to spare.  =P

Then again, I've never been a huge Sauron player, so what the crap do I know?!

Nothin', that's what!

[ket_the_jet]

Nothin', that's what!

If I gave you a gold piece, that might be patronizing...but you only have 3...!

I can't really explain anymore why it is worth throwing in one copy except that Elves are the biggest problem that Orcs can really face. 31 cards is really the perfect amount for the Knights anyways (if I do make it to site eight or nine, I deck out, but often the Shadow does the trick at least to the point where my opponent does not double move). I love Terrible As the Dawn. Not just because it looks great foiled (it does), but because Galadriel is the single biggest pain-in-the-#$&*@! Ring-Bearer besides Frodo.
-wtk

[Alazzar]

Well, like I said earlier, I've been known to throw a single copy of a card into a deck solely for use against a deck that would otherwise beat me, and if Galadriel is such a big problem, then go for it!  I'm just not a big Sauron player (or Movie Block player, for that matter), so I don't know how much of a threat she is to this Shadow.

In fact, this reminds me of a story...  *insert wavy flashback transition here*

In 2004 I was planning to go to the Washington State TOC, and thought I had my deck just the way I wanted it.  I played the deck in the LotR Online game the day before leaving, only to find that my Free Peoples got STOMPED by Sauron Trolls.  I was at a loss for what to do.  It really seemed like an un-winnable match-up.  I was playing Gondor with a bit of Elven support (Elrond, Herald to Gil-galad with Vilya, Secret Sentinels, and Curse Their Foul Feet!), and the trolls were having their way with me.

So I started looking through cards, looking for ANYTHING that could help me in that match-up.

I came across a little gem called Stand Against Darkness.

Now, it should be noted that this was before people had discovered the power of SAD against Sauron Trolls, because Sauron had never been a threatening culture before, so everyone had ritualistically burned their copies of SAD in hopes of appeasing some higher being that would give them better luck with their draft pack contents.  I'm not saying I'm the person that first discovered the newfound uses of SAD, but it definitely wasn't mainstream information at that point.

So, I put two copies into my deck.  When I went to the TOC (which was a 5-hour drive away), I played a few games the night before the tournament with the guy that was offering me a place to stay.  Sure enough, he was playing Sauron trolls.  When I played that first Stand Against Darkness, he had to read what it did.

He did not like what he read.

Not one bit.

One measly exertion on Elrond and we had a dead troll carcass in the middle of the battlefield.  My opponent was not happy, and (semi-jokingly) claimed that I teched my deck against his.  He knew, of course, that this wasn't possible, as I'd had no idea what he was playing before that moment.

The mere intimidation of having SAD in my deck ended up being a powerful force, as I played the guy in the TOC the next day, and I think the presence of that lesser-known Elf event got to his head.  He basically felt like he was defeated before he even started the game.  =P

Cripes, that was longer than I thought, sorry.  I feel like an old man telling war stories to his uninterested grandchildren.  The only way the experience could be more accurate would be if I were wearing adult underpants and whittling.

[Kralik]

I was wondering when Stand Against Darkness was going to come up! There are a lot of cards like it in Fellowship block that seem too specific to be useful. But, sometimes splashing them can pay off. Nothing like having the game end with Terrible as the Dawn or taking out Sauron with SAD. And... I've had my Boromir Horn/Ally decks devastated by Such a Little Thing (which my opponent had 3 of just to deal with Boromir's threat to FotR Moria)