The Shadows that Should Have Been

[Calam]

I think a lot of us were frustrated when Shadows came out.  There seem to be a few unanimous reasons as to why people generally didn't like the set:

1) Wierd site-path.
2) Combining of minion cultures.
3) Banning of prior sets (i.e. incompatible use with movie-block sets.)

I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones I noticed the most.  If you have more issues, please list them.

I'm starting this thread because I would like to propose a small "project"...  A couple years ago, I created a LotR TCG card for a Photoshop class project.  The card came out beautifully, and if I can find the file I'll post it here.  The point was, I was able to create an entirely new card by photoshopping another card.  Once I got into the groove, it actually wasn't hard.  Then I realized; I could literally make myself a whole set...  By "erasing" the text on the card templates for each culture, I could easily create "blank" cards on which I could transpose any text, picture, and lore I wanted.  Naturally there were a few things that did not exactly like an original cards... But it was really close.

It seems a few of us stopped playing when Shadows came out because we didn't like the set or the sets that were released after it.  So I offer this idea; let's make our own set.  We can call it whatever we want, and we can keep the new game mechanics and keywords of the Shadows set (with a few modifications) but make the set completely new, as if we were releasing the set right after Mount Doom.  Meaning, none of the mechanics or keywords of sets that came afterward; no followers, etc.

Obviously this would take a lot of time and work, and a few people with Photoshop skills, but once all the "templates" are edited (i.e. possession, condition, companion, artifact, etc.) any game text could be used for any one template.  No need to edit a new card every time.  Just superimpose the letters and numbers you want and that's it.

This is just an idea and it's up to you guys.  We could work together to create a set and, if possible, upload the card images into GCCG and actually play with them (although that might be a big 'if'.)  We could work together to create all the cards for a complete set.

Some things worth fixing:

1) No random site-path.  I did like the flexibility that the new site-path system offered, but let's narrow it down a bit.  No more moving from the Shire to Mount Doom in one turn.  Instead, assign a "region number" to each site.  You can separate the site-path into 3 regions; 3 cards per region.  So if a site is in region 1, that means it can only be played as a site 1-3, and that's it.  This provides flexibility; you can move around within each region, for example-- your fellowship might decide to go from Rivendell back to the Shire-- but once you hit region two, the fellowship must move closer to Mordor.  All the sites in region 2 would follow the same mechanic as region one, meaning they are able to be played in any order, and the same with region three.

So...

Region 1= sites 1-3.
Region 2= sites 4-6
Region 3= sites 7-9.

And each site in each region can be played in any order, but only in that region.  Make sense?

Then there is the issue of minion cultures.  Decipher's reasoning for this was supposedly that players weren't combining minions... But instead of slapping cultures together, why not make cards within each culture that cooperate with similar cultures, or cultures that work together?  For example, the fact that Saruman used both orcs and Uruk-Hai would suggest that both would have to get along... But instead of separating orcs and putting them in one culture, just separate the Uruk-Hai culture in the same way that Shadows did.  Now, can have cards that "cooperate" with all orcs.  Let me offer a brief example of a card I quickly thought of...

•No Tolerance for Disrespect
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot an Uruk-hai and a or orc.
Maneuver: exert and Uruk-hai twice and make two orcs strength -3 to make every Uruk-hai strength +2 until the regroup phase.

Or this one:

Replenished Armory
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot a , or orc.
Shadow: exert an orc to play a possession on an Uruk-hai.  Its twilight cost is -2.  Discard this condition.

There is nothing wrong with separating or combining cultures... But there is no reason to make one culture incompatible with another.


I'll start it off with one more card idea I had:

[10] •Sauron
The All-Seeing Eye
Minion • Maia
Str. 3
Vit. 5
Site 6
To play, spot 4 or minions.
Play to your support area.  Sauron may not participate in archery fire
or be assigned to a skirmish by the Free People's player.
Response: if the ring-bearer puts on the One Ring, exert Sauron to cancel all
skirmishes and assign him to the ring-bearer.  
Sauron is strength +1 for each burden you can spot.
Return Sauron to your support area at the start of the regroup phase.


The idea is that Sauron doesn't really "fight" Frodo, he just adds burdens to him because Frodo knows Sauron can see him.  This is why he only gets assigned if he puts the One Ring on, and if Sauron wins, it just adds more burdens.  It's not an overpowering card either because Sauron is still susceptible to direct exertions, wounds, and discarding.

Thoughts?

[MR. Lurtzy]

You cannot post graphical DCs on this site... however I would like to see it, so PM me, if you can.

[ket_the_jet]

While we are at it, let's dump Toil and Muster and Lurker too.
-wtk

[MuadDib85]

Toil is awesome! Why would you want to dump it?

That's like saying let's dump enduring.. or dump threats..

I think like this because:
I only started playing lotr after all sets were released so I cannot have the opinion as all these people who seem to constantly complain about shadows and beyond..

I think most sets/cards are awesome and should be used.. If you don't like shadows and beyond just play movie or block.. If you do like shadows and beyond play standard or expanded.. As a relatively new player I really don't see what all the fuss is about..

EDIT: changed all to most. I realise saying all cards is a bit over the top.

[ket_the_jet]

Toil is awesome! Why would you want to dump it?

That's like saying let's dump enduring.. or dump threats..

I think like this because:
I only started playing lotr after all sets were released so I cannot have the opinion as all these people who seem to constantly complain about shadows and beyond..

I think all sets/cards are awesome and should be used.. If you don't like shadows and beyond just play movie or block.. If you do like shadows and beyond play standard or expanded.. As a relatively new player I really don't see what all the fuss is about..

My note was mostly sarcastic...

Personally, I stay out of Standard and beyond for the most part but I would love to see some new cards that fit into the Movie Block set.
-wtk

[ket_the_jet]

Outside of the sitepath and the new minion cultures, there was not much I disliked about Shadows.

I would've preferred keeping the signets, but that's just an opinion thing. It is a cool idea that the Ring has a hold on the rest of the fellowship, but I prefer consistency over a cool feature.

Honestly, the coolest picture (and an underrated card too) is Aragorn, Guide and Protector...I think with the Frodo or Aragorn signet, that would be a sweet addition to Movie Block. Pippin, Brave Decoy with the Frodo signet and Boromir, Hero of Osgiliath with the Aragorn signet would all slide in nicely as well.
-wtk

[MuadDib85]

My note was mostly sarcastic...

Oh..

Well just to add a little more, the only things I can see wrong with Shadows and beyond are:

Frenzy of Arrows (now useless)
New Chapter (horn deck)
Namarie (destroys any condition based shadows)
Leaving Forever (ROTK I know but when used with Gil-Galad, HKotN creates an endless cycle)
Troll's Keyward, KoTB (fine by itself but whe used with wargs is OP)

I'm sure there would be divided opinions about these but if small erratas were made, I think then everything would be fine. Anyone who has faced a fully blown horn deck or a leaving forever Gil-Galad deck will know what I am talking about.

Please let me know if I have missed any overpowered/broken cards.

Oh and Calam: sorry for getting off topic.

[ket_the_jet]

•No Tolerance for Disrespect
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot an Uruk-hai and a or orc.
Maneuver: exert and Uruk-hai twice and make two orcs strength -3 to make every Uruk-hai strength +2 until the regroup phase.

There are some serious grammatical errors here, but the gist of it is okay. I, personally, would not use it but it is okay.

Replenished Armory
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot a , or orc.
Shadow: exert an orc to play a possession on an Uruk-hai.  Its twilight cost is -2.  Discard this condition.

Not many possessions that cost more than two that I can think of. Are you setting a precedent?

[10] •Sauron
The All-Seeing Eye
Minion • Maia
Str. 3
Vit. 5
Site 6
To play, spot 4 or minions.
Play to your support area.  Sauron may not participate in archery fire
or be assigned to a skirmish by the Free People's player.
Response: if the ring-bearer puts on the One Ring, exert Sauron to cancel all
skirmishes and assign him to the ring-bearer.  
Sauron is strength +1 for each burden you can spot.
Return Sauron to your support area at the start of the regroup phase

It would more likely be:
• The Lidless Eye
Condition • Support Area
Each time the Ring-Bearer puts on the One Ring, this minion becomes a Fierce Maia Minion that cannot bear cards and must be assigned to the Ring-Bearer. It is strength X where X is the number of burdens and threats you can spot. This card is still a condition.

[ket_the_jet]

My bigger issues came with Hunters and beyond, which, if you aren't playing certain decks (Namarie, Ithilien Blade, etc) then you might as well not play.

But the site path is a major qualm I had with the game. And the new Shadow cultures.

And, more than anything, was cycling out other blocks. The reason that a lot of cards are not broken in Standard is because of the unavailability of cards from sets 1-6. Decipher should've ended the game instead of getting lazy and reprinting cards and dumping previous sets.
-wtk

Edit: Anyways, the #$&*@!-session should be here: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,3246.0.html

[Thranduil]

What you propose Calam is not impossible. However, if you're hoping for a group effort, this seems unlikely as there are very few people who are interested enough in this game to stick around the forums (no one's reviewed my DCs in over a week, for example) and there have been about 3 attempts to put together a players' committee to sort these things, all of which have come to essentially nothing.

I say if you want to make a set, go for it! You want some help with your cards or strategies or ideas, then post them here and I'll review them (as I'm sure will others). And graphical DCs is something that I've been trying to do for a while (though Lurtzy's right, you can't post them on this site) and would love to see. In particular, my pet project has been virtual cards - making new versions of old cards to fill strategy and mechanic holes. This is done by make half-cards, which can be printed off to cover only the game text box of a card, with a new text for it (I have a few (bad) graphical examples of this I made myself, but I'm not a serious computer person so it's very unprofessional). This perhaps seems easier than starting afresh, and it means you also don't need to worry about putting pictures on the cards.

All in all, I'm sure your ideas are excellent (I love your Sauron, for example, and it's given me a great idea for one of the cards in my current DC set so thanks! ) and while a serious group effort is very unlikely to happen here, I and I'm sure several others would love to see your ideas.

Thranduil