LotR TCG Wiki → Card Sets:  All 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 → Forums:  TLHH CC

Author Topic: Back to the Light - Review  (Read 93142 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

November 23, 2009, 02:04:00 PM
Reply #105

ket_the_jet

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2062
  • He/Him/His
Re: Back to the Light - ISENGARD
« Reply #105 on: November 23, 2009, 02:04:00 PM »
[4] Sharkey's Men [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 2
Traitor. (Traitor is unloaded).
When you play this minion, you may foresee 2. If you foresee a traitor minion, you may reveal it and take it into hand. (To foresee 2, look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards beneath your draw deck in any order, and the rest on top of your draw deck in any order).
B C 54

Neat. Seems okay...but maybe make exerting part of the cost?

[1] Mark of the White Hand [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
Shadow: Remove [2] or spot an [Isengard] traitor character to make each minion gain the [Isengard] culture until the regroup phase.
Maneuver: Spot an [Isengard] minion and discard this condition to return all Free Peoples cards borne by a corrupted companion to their owner's hand. (Companions with resistance 0 are corrupted).
B U 53
Why not just "spot an [Isengard] traitor? Are there traitors that aren't minions?

[1]Lotho Sackville-Baggins, Chief Shirriff [Isengard]
Minion • Hobbit
Str: 3
Vit: 4
Sit: 2
Traitor.
When you play Lotho Sackville-Baggins, you may play a traitor minion from your draw deck.
Assignment: Assign Lotho Sackville-Baggins to a [Shire] companion. The Free Peoples player may add a burden to prevent this and assign Lotho Sackville-Baggins.
B R 52
I like this guy. Pretty cool.

[1][2] Uniting the Two Towers [Isengard]
Event • Maneuver
Toil 2.
[Sauron], [Men], [Wraith], [Orc] and [Uruk] minions may exert for this card's toil.
Spot a unique [Isengard] minion to allow you to decide the order of skirmishes until the regroup phase.
B R 55
That was a good point by L3333...why not just "Each minion can exert for this card's toil cost (regardless of culture)."

Neat stuff...sorry I didn't get to it sooner!
-wtk

November 24, 2009, 01:33:16 AM
Reply #106

Thranduil

  • *******
  • Information Offline
  • Wizard
  • Posts: 4996
    • Zalman's Dungeon (blog of SF stories by Thranduil)
Re: Back to the Light - MORIA
« Reply #106 on: November 24, 2009, 01:33:16 AM »
Why not just "spot an [Isengard] traitor? Are there traitors that aren't minions?
There is one - Curunír companion. Also I've got into the habit of mentioning minion/companion/character specifically (where previous cards would have said just [Isengard] traitor) just for clarity and to avoid any possible mess-ups.

Just 1 card for today. Let me know what you think.

[4]The Mines of Moria [Moria]
Condition • Support Area
Toil 2.
While the fellowship is at an underground site, each of your [Orc] cards in play, in hand, in your draw deck and in your discard pile gain the [Moria] culture, and each of your [Moria] cards in play, in hand, in your draw deck and in your discard pile gain the [Orc] culture.
B R 66

« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 03:25:20 PM by Thranduil »

November 24, 2009, 02:20:04 AM
Reply #107

lem0nhead

  • Vegetarian Cannibal
  • *******
  • Information Offline
  • Wizard
  • Posts: 4205
  • Juicy Fruit
Re: Back to the Light - MORIA
« Reply #107 on: November 24, 2009, 02:20:04 AM »

[4]The Mines of Moria [Moria]
Condition • Support Area
Toil 2.
While the fellowship is at an underground site, each of your [Orc] cards in play, in hand, in your draw deck or in your discard pile gain the [Moria] culture, and each time an [Orc] culture symbol is used on a card, you may replace it with the [Moria] symbol.
B R 66


Ok. You do realise without going through every card in the orc culture I cannot truly evaluate this for borken combos, power and usefulness?

Nice idea, good flavour but thats as far as I can review as I dont have time to trawl through 9 sets!
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
That's like having "Some Who Ride Ponies" as a Rohan follower. ~ Dain Ironfoot.

November 24, 2009, 05:32:23 AM
Reply #108

Thranduil

  • *******
  • Information Offline
  • Wizard
  • Posts: 4996
    • Zalman's Dungeon (blog of SF stories by Thranduil)
Re: Back to the Light - MORIA
« Reply #108 on: November 24, 2009, 05:32:23 AM »
Ok. You do realise without going through every card in the orc culture I cannot truly evaluate this for borken combos, power and usefulness?

Nice idea, good flavour but thats as far as I can review as I dont have time to trawl through 9 sets!
I'm just posting the concept, which I'm glad you like! Obviously without proper playtesting, we'll never know how broken it really is.

Thranduil

November 24, 2009, 01:32:08 PM
Reply #109

ket_the_jet

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2062
  • He/Him/His
Re: Back to the Light - MORIA
« Reply #109 on: November 24, 2009, 01:32:08 PM »
I will add my thoughts to the card...lemon is right...great in concept, probably broken as #$&*@!.

It is already a great card if it just adds the [Moria] symbol to each Orc at an underground site and is well worth the [4]. Luckily, not too many cards spot the [Moria] culture, except Hate and Anger and the unique minions one (off the top of my head).
-wtk

November 24, 2009, 03:24:28 PM
Reply #110

Thranduil

  • *******
  • Information Offline
  • Wizard
  • Posts: 4996
    • Zalman's Dungeon (blog of SF stories by Thranduil)
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #110 on: November 24, 2009, 03:24:28 PM »
I've slightly changed it. Hopefully it's still good (and broken! ;) ).

Now I've mentioned that Back to the Light is a FP heavy set, but now we're onto some Shadow cultures. Let's start with [Men]!

One of the things I've done, as you can see in this card, is to transplant the NtFH cycle into Shadow cultures as well. So this is the [Men] version.

[1] Planned Ambush [Men]
Condition • Support Area
Shadow: Exert a [Men] minion and either an [Orc] or [Wraith] minion to add a [Men] token here.
Skirmish: Remove a [Men] token here to add [2].
B C 61

And you may also remember me saying that I've brought back ambush in this set. This is because one of the themes was aggressor, and both of the throwback keywords for this block (toil and ambush) fit in with this theme quite nicely. Plus, I like both keywords, and ambush always felt underused in design to me.

[2] Southron Ambusher [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 5
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Aggressor. Ambush [1]. (For each aggressor assigned to a skirmish, each Shadow card is twilight cost -1).
B C 62

[3] Traitor of Edoras [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Traitor.
When you play this minion, you may foresee 2. (To foresee 2, look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards beneath your draw deck in any order and the rest on top of your draw deck in any order).
B C 64

Simple. Run of the mill. One of the ways I've rectified the underuse of foresee in The Twilight World.

[4]Southron Champion [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 7
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Aggressor. Ambush [1]. Besieger.
While there is a [Sauron] card in your discard pile, Southron Champion is strength +1 for each twilight token.
B R 63

In general, I prefer to use named characters but I couldn't think of anyone specific who I have not yet used. But let me know if you think of one! Basically, this is one of the themes in Shadow cards that I was eluding to with Beregond - spotting Shadow cards in the discard pile. In this case, it's to represent the fact that Sauron has sent these Southrons to fight his wars.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 03:54:03 AM by Thranduil »

November 24, 2009, 11:00:16 PM
Reply #111

legolas3333

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2152
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #111 on: November 24, 2009, 11:00:16 PM »
I've slightly changed it. Hopefully it's still good (and broken! ;) ).

Now I've mentioned that Back to the Light is a FP heavy set, but now we're onto some Shadow cultures. Let's start with [Men]!

One of the things I've done, as you can see in this card, is to transplant the NtFH cycle into Shadow cultures as well. So this is the [Men] version.

[1] Planned Ambush [Men]
Condition • Support Area
Shadow: Exert a [Men] minion and either an [Orc] or [Wraith] minion to add a [Men] token here.
Skirmish: Remove a [Men] token here to add [2].
B C 61

Nice!

And you may also remember me saying that I've brought back ambush in this set. This is because one of the themes was aggressor, and both of the throwback keywords for this block (toil and ambush) fit in with this theme quite nicely. Plus, I like both keywords, and ambush always felt underused in design to me.

[2] Southron Ambusher [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 5
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Aggressor. Ambush [1]. (For each aggressor assigned to a skirmish, each Shadow card is twilight cost -1).
B C 62

... seems weak but ok for a common i guess.

[3] Southron Tracker [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Tracker.
When you play this minion, you may foresee 2. (To foresee 2, look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards beneath your draw deck in any order and the rest on top of your draw deck in any order).
B C 64

there has never been a [Men] or [Raider] tracker, so i would dump the keyword.

Simple. Run of the mill. One of the ways I've rectified the underuse of foresee in The Twilight World.

[4]Southron Champion [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 7
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Aggressor. Ambush [1]. Besieger.
While there is a [Sauron] card in your discard pile, Southron Champion is strength +1 for each twilight token.
B R 63

hmm same comment as above about tracker but this time about besieger.

In general, I prefer to use named characters but I couldn't think of anyone specific who I have not yet used. But let me know if you think of one! Basically, this is one of the themes in Shadow cards that I was eluding to with Beregond - spotting Shadow cards in the discard pile. In this case, it's to represent the fact that Sauron has sent these Southrons to fight his wars.
A Promo Saved is a Promo Earned

November 25, 2009, 04:35:44 AM
Reply #112

Thranduil

  • *******
  • Information Offline
  • Wizard
  • Posts: 4996
    • Zalman's Dungeon (blog of SF stories by Thranduil)
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #112 on: November 25, 2009, 04:35:44 AM »
there has never been a [Men] or [Raider] tracker, so i would dump the keyword.
hmm same comment as above about tracker but this time about besieger.
But there's no flavour reason why there can't be [Men] trackers or [Men] besiegers. One of the things I'm doing is putting flavourful keywords wherever the flavour makes sense so that they can then be used as "tribal" keywords. You wouldn't just have to make a [Men] deck or a [Sauron] besieger deck - you could make a tracker deck featuring [Isengard], [Uruk] and [Orc] or a [Sauron] / [Men] besieger deck etc.

Thranduil

November 25, 2009, 05:41:46 AM
Reply #113

ket_the_jet

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2062
  • He/Him/His
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #113 on: November 25, 2009, 05:41:46 AM »
[1] Planned Ambush [Men]
Condition • Support Area
Shadow: Exert a [Men] minion and either an [Orc] or [Wraith] minion to add a [Men] token here.
Skirmish: Remove a [Men] token here to add [2].
B C 61
There are a ton of [Raider] cards that have done similar things (albeit, exerting just [Raider] minions)...but this seems to be okay and fits the [Men] culture.

[2] Southron Ambusher [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 5
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Aggressor. Ambush [1]. (For each aggressor assigned to a skirmish, each Shadow card is twilight cost -1).
B C 62
I like this guy as a cheap minion.

[3] Southron Tracker [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Tracker.
When you play this minion, you may foresee 2. (To foresee 2, look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards beneath your draw deck in any order and the rest on top of your draw deck in any order).
B C 64
I am waiting to see Shadow cards that use "foresee" well, but I can see how it would be helpful.

[4]Southron Champion [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 7
Vit: 2
Sit: 4
Aggressor. Ambush [1]. Besieger.
While there is a [Sauron] card in your discard pile, Southron Champion is strength +1 for each twilight token.
B R 63

This guy is pretty good, but maybe make it a [Sauron] minion or two...it is pretty easy to just throw in some [Sauron] splash minions (like Sauron!) and toss them in the discard pile.
-wtk

November 25, 2009, 09:48:10 AM
Reply #114

legolas3333

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2152
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #114 on: November 25, 2009, 09:48:10 AM »
there has never been a [Men] or [Raider] tracker, so i would dump the keyword.
hmm same comment as above about tracker but this time about besieger.
But there's no flavour reason why there can't be [Men] trackers or [Men] besiegers. One of the things I'm doing is putting flavourful keywords wherever the flavour makes sense so that they can then be used as "tribal" keywords. You wouldn't just have to make a [Men] deck or a [Sauron] besieger deck - you could make a tracker deck featuring [Isengard], [Uruk] and [Orc] or a [Sauron] / [Men] besieger deck etc.

Thranduil

ok, but i don't see in the books where there could be a man tracker since they were more or less just heading straight for Mordor.
A Promo Saved is a Promo Earned

November 25, 2009, 11:16:31 PM
Reply #115

ket_the_jet

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2062
  • He/Him/His
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #115 on: November 25, 2009, 11:16:31 PM »
ok, but i don't see in the books where there could be a man tracker since they were more or less just heading straight for Mordor.

Southron Sentry...that kind of has a tracker feel...

Also, I never realized I was in your signature! BOOSH!
-wtk

November 26, 2009, 01:54:24 AM
Reply #116

Thranduil

  • *******
  • Information Offline
  • Wizard
  • Posts: 4996
    • Zalman's Dungeon (blog of SF stories by Thranduil)
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #116 on: November 26, 2009, 01:54:24 AM »
Really good point L333. I probably was thinking of the scouts/sentries of those sorts of groups Faramir found in Ithilien, and also it just fits quite well with the flavour of ambush. It probably does make more sense for Dunlending [Men] trackers who are tracking down villages and villagers, which ties in with guys like Dunlending Trapper. I will probably change the keywords/title of that guy.

Just like in FP cards we had these "dual-culture" events, the Shadow side also has them, like this one:

[2] Armies of Mordor [Orc]
Event • Skirmish
Toil 2. (When you play this card, you may exert any number of your [Orc] characters to make its twilight cost -2 for each character exerted in this way).
Play a [Men] minion from your hand; it is strength +3 and fierce until the regroup phase.
B U 67

Note that one of the things you can do with aggressor (described above) is play minions during the skirmish phase, like the old [Dunland] cards from EoF used to. [Men] are the best at this, hence the previous card, and this cross-cultural one:

[3] Isengard Ambusher [Uruk]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 5
Ambush [1]. Damage +1. Tracker.
Skirmish: Exert this minion to play a minion from your hand. If that minion is a [Men] minion, make a companion lose all gametext keywords until the regroup phase.
B U 101

Then to finish off the [Men] culture, first some much needed common resistance reduction (with some tribal support for traitors), then a use for foreseeing, followed by part of the foreseeing cycle.

[1] Betrayed [Men]
Condition • Unbound Companion
Res: -2
To play, spot a [Men] or traitor minion.
B C 56

[4] Death From Above [Men]
Event • Archery
Spot a [Men] card to reveal the top X cards of your draw deck where X is the number of companions with resistance 5 or less. Make the minion archery total +1 for each Shadow card revealed.
B R 58

(0) Informers of the Enemy [Men]
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, you may foresee 2. (To foresee 2, look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards beneath your draw deck in any order and the rest on top of your draw deck in any order).
Maneuver: Spot a traitor character and discard this condition to reveal the top card of your draw deck. If that card is a Shadow card, reveal the Free Peoples player's hand and discard a revealed Free Peoples card.
B R 60
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 07:35:10 AM by Thranduil »

November 26, 2009, 02:56:21 AM
Reply #117

legolas3333

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2152
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #117 on: November 26, 2009, 02:56:21 AM »
Really good point L333. I probably was thinking of the scouts/sentries of those sorts of groups Faramir found in Ithilien, and also it just fits quite well with the flavour of ambush. It probably does make more sense for Dunlending [Men] trackers who are tracking down villages and villagers, which ties in with guys like Dunlending Trapper. I will probably change the keywords/title of that guy.

Just like in FP cards we had these "dual-culture" events, the Shadow side also has them, like this one:

[2] Armies of Mordor [Orc]
Event • Skirmish
Toil 2. (When you play this card, you may exert any number of your [Orc] characters to make its twilight cost -2 for each character exerted in this way).
Play a [Men] minion from your hand; it is strength +3 and fierce until the regroup phase.
B U 67

ok, toil 1 me thinks

Note that one of the things you can do with aggressor (described above) is play minions during the skirmish phase, like the old [Dunland] cards from EoF used to. [Men] are the best at this, hence the previous card, and this cross-cultural one:

[3] Isengard Ambusher [Uruk]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 5
Ambush [1]. Damage +1. Tracker.
Skirmish: Exert this minion to play a minion from your hand. If that minion is a [Men] or [Isengard] minion, make a companion lose all gametext keywords until the regroup phase.
B U 101

Nice! except maybe make it just one culture or the other not either [Men] or [Isengard]

Then to finish off the [Men] culture, first some much needed common resistance reduction (with some tribal support for traitors), then a use for foreseeing, followed by part of the foreseeing cycle.

[1] Betrayed [Men]
Condition • Unbound Companion
Res: -2
To play, spot a [Men] or traitor minion.
B C 56

the text should be Condition bearer must be an unbound companion

[6] Death From Above [Men]
Event • Archery
Toil 1.
Spot a [Men] card to reveal the top X cards of your draw deck where X is the number of companions with resistance 5 or less. Make the minion archery total +1 for each Shadow card revealed.
B R 58

I like the resistance flavor

(0) Informers of the Enemy [Men]
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, you may spot a traitor character to foresee 2. (To foresee 2, look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards beneath your draw deck in any order and the rest on top of your draw deck in any order).
Maneuver: Discard this condition to reveal the top card of your draw deck. If that card is a Shadow card, reveal the Free Peoples player's hand and discard a revealed Free Peoples card.
B R 60

hmm it seems super puwerful but I'm not sure what to change
A Promo Saved is a Promo Earned

November 26, 2009, 03:57:51 AM
Reply #118

Thranduil

  • *******
  • Information Offline
  • Wizard
  • Posts: 4996
    • Zalman's Dungeon (blog of SF stories by Thranduil)
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #118 on: November 26, 2009, 03:57:51 AM »
hmm it seems super puwerful but I'm not sure what to change
It was deliberately very powerful. Disruption is not a strategy that is prevalent in LotR, and though I find it really annoying, I acknowledge that some people like it and it should be possible. And I know that in general Magic tries to avoid making powerful disruption cards because it's not very fun, but having a small amount seems fine.

Made some changes. Thanks! :gp:

Thranduil

November 26, 2009, 06:43:16 AM
Reply #119

ket_the_jet

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2062
  • He/Him/His
Re: Back to the Light - MEN
« Reply #119 on: November 26, 2009, 06:43:16 AM »
[2] Armies of Mordor [Orc]
Event • Skirmish
Toil 2. (When you play this card, you may exert any number of your [Orc] characters to make its twilight cost -2 for each character exerted in this way).
Play a [Men] minion from your hand; it is strength +3 and fierce until the regroup phase.
B U 67
Seems fair enough. Those Dunlenders were a #$&*@! to deal with...but I like the idea.

[3] Isengard Ambusher [Uruk]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 5
Ambush [1]. Damage +1. Tracker.
Skirmish: Exert this minion to play a minion from your hand. If that minion is a [Men] minion, make a companion lose all gametext keywords until the regroup phase.
B U 101
First damage +1 Uruk-Hai tracker since...Uruk Scout! Neat...with ambush too!

[1] Betrayed [Men]
Condition • Unbound Companion
Res: -2
To play, spot a [Men] or traitor minion.
B C 56
I don't mind that this a condition that plays directly on a companion.

[6] Death From Above [Men]
Event • Archery
Toil 1.
Spot a [Men] card to reveal the top X cards of your draw deck where X is the number of companions with resistance 5 or less. Make the minion archery total +1 for each Shadow card revealed.
B R 58
Does it need to cost six? Sure Rapid Fire and others cost similarly...but I don't think that [6] is worth getting, at tops, 9 archery. You are more likely going to get two or three...Then again, I am not as familiar with Shadows and beyond...

(0) Informers of the Enemy [Men]
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, you may spot a traitor character to foresee 2. (To foresee 2, look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards beneath your draw deck in any order and the rest on top of your draw deck in any order).
Maneuver: Discard this condition to reveal the top card of your draw deck. If that card is a Shadow card, reveal the Free Peoples player's hand and discard a revealed Free Peoples card.
B R 60

I love this card! Kicks some serious #$&*@!! It is (0) and non-unique and has no spotting requirements!
-wtk