condition discarding

[jdizzy001]

Let's say I play That's Two.  The text says the shadow player must discard a shadow card from play during the regroup phase.  If the shadow player chooses to discard a gollum condition and has deceit in play, can he protect his condition with deceit?  I think no, because deceit says you may only prevent the discarding if the freeps card specifically discards a condition.  That's 2 does not discard a condtion, but any shadow card.

[legolas3333]

i think you are correct

[TheJord]

The question is the source of the discard.

That's Two is the source of the discard, despite its text, which allows the Shadow player to decide what to discard.

[MR. Lurtzy]

That's Two isn't doing the discarding though.

[TheJord]

But it is. The Shadow player is only discarding because That's Two is making them. Therefore it is the source of the discard.

If it isnt the source, what is?

[MR. Lurtzy]

I don't think it matters what the source is. Deceit specifically says "If a Free Peoples player's card is about to discard your other [GOLLUM] condition..." and That's Two isn't discarding the condition(S).

[sharkey]

I think it look at it this way: That's Two is what is discarding the condition, even if the shadow player is choosing.

That's two is a terrible card. Maybe if it was manuever...

[TheJord]

I made good use of it in a multiplayer draft once.

[jdizzy001]

That's two is a great card in multi-player.  I wouldn't use it in any other game other than a multi-player game.  I think this same scenario came up pertaining to old noakes 3C111 the following was determined, Notes: If a Shadow card gives you the choice of discarding a card from hand or taking a different action, that card does not activate Old Noakes' game text. I say this same thing applies to the text of that's two.  Since the text of that's two gives you a choice of actions, deceit's text is not activated.

[TheJord]

I dont see how these two exampls relate. Old Noakes doesnt respond to a situation where you choose to discard instead of something else, such as DDotR, as his text says "Each time a Shadow card makes you discard..."

Deceit simply states, if a FP card is about to discard a condition, do X... That's Two is responsible for the discard, however you word it.

[MR. Lurtzy]

"...to have each Shadow player discard one of his or her Shadow cards from play."

[TheJord]

Exactly, why is the Shadow player discarding? Because That's Two is making them!

[MR. Lurtzy]

Exactly, why is the Shadow player discarding? Because That's Two is making them!

Yeah. And that prevents Deceit from using its ability.

[Thranduil]

The question is the source of the discard.

That's Two is the source of the discard, despite its text, which allows the Shadow player to decide what to discard.

I am almost certain this is correct. Deceit will work in this case. There is a classic example of this, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is!

Thranduil

[Elessar's Socks]

To use a different example, I've thought Melilot Brandybuck could exert to prevent the burden from Desperate Defense of the Ring.

The CR entry for Frodo CH also says "This card only prevents Shadow cards that make you discard from hand or draw deck." The Free Peoples player is doing the (forced) discarding, a Shadow card is the source of this, and Frodo CH ("Shadow cards may not discard...") works. Flip it around, and we get the That's Two! / Deceit situation here.