Sarah Palin and Conservative America

[sickofpalantirs]

precisely...my bad for being unclear, your post was very mature and respectful.

[turin08]

though I do get really angry when liberals imply that just being conservative makes essentially lower than scum...
Okay this just made me laugh. No offence but a lot of the conservatives on here use the word liberal as just another word for demon sometimes. Both sides do the same thing.
I have found this whole election fascinating. It's great to watch from the outside, I decided to follow it as if I was American and decide who I would vote for but of course that was impossible as I'm not an American, I'm a Brit with an semi-American dad and who has lived in America for part of his life. Therefore I find myself naturally leaning towards Obama. Bush maybe quite unpopular in his own country but here in the UK he is absolutely detested and McCain's seeming willingness to be George bush Mark III automatically puts a black mark next to his name. I like Obama's foreign policy ideas and was very immpressed with him on his European tour.

Socialized healthcare is not a good thing.

I would very much like to hear your reasoning behind this as I have lived in both countries and experienced both healthcare systems and am under no illusion as to which one is better. Your current system is nothing more than a sorry tool of the pharmaceutical companies. It leeches off the poor and needy who more often than not are the ones who need it most.


However............

As a christian there are a lot of things about Obama that concern me. I am thoroughly Pro Life and while I wouldn't call myself anti-gay as I belive that while I don't believe its right people should be aloud to practice homosexuality in a free country (If they are not its not a free country at all but a country in which you are free just as long as you stick to a strict ideal), but I strictly disagree with the forcing of homosexuality on the church.

Another thing is that what the rest of the world is most concerned about when it comes to America is undeniably money. The disastrous and shoddy management of your economy by the Bush administration is having dire effects over her in Britain and Europe. Whatever happens in America has big effects here as far as money is concerned and so anyone who can get your economy back to the state Clinton left it in is welcome by us.

To bring things back to the subject at hand I think the the two choices for VP offer a very interesting commentary on the way the two men are running their campaign. McCain's choice reflects the fact that he is playing a very tactical game with lots of short term victories. His choice of Palin is nothing more than a choice to get him into the White House, she's there to grab the former Hillary supporters and thats it. Anyone trying to convince themselves that a 44 year old former beauty queen with a journalism degree from the University of Idaho, who has no interest or experience in foreign policy and has than two years experience as the govenor of a state of just 700,000 people is kidding themselves. In essence McCain is the tactition.
Obama on the otherhand is a strategist. So far he shown a willingness to forgo sudden decisions or short term strikes in favour of long term goals. His pick of Biden, a foreign policy heavyweight, suggests that his pick for VP was based on the person's actuall use in office rather than grabbing the most headlines.
McCain's move was clever, deft and well timed but also a little desperate, a little too risky and a bit unserious. America is at war with lethal enemies, its economy is teetering and its people unsettled. And McCain gave you a 44 year old former beauty queen as the person who would be asked to run the country should anything bad happen to what would be the oldest ever first term president. Tactically: daring. Strategically: potentially disastrous.
Game on. And Advantage Obama.   

[MR. Lurtzy]

And I'm the crazy one?

[turin08]

Would you care to expand upon that comment? And wow there are a lot of spelling mistakes in that post of mine. In my defence i'm extremely tired and was typing fast.

[MR. Lurtzy]

I don't have much time but I will say that a foreign policy of appeasement is not what this country needs.

[sickofpalantirs]

though I do get really angry when liberals imply that just being conservative makes essentially lower than scum...
Okay this just made me laugh. No offence but a lot of the conservatives on here use the word liberal as just another word for demon sometimes. Both sides do the same thing.
yeah but I try not to...I've slowly become more moderate, seeing both sides better, and certainly you admit that it annoys you?

However............
As a christian there are a lot of things about Obama that concern me. I am thoroughly Pro Life and while I wouldn't call myself anti-gay as I belive that while I don't believe its right people should be aloud to practice homosexuality in a free country (If they are not its not a free country at all but a country in which you are free just as long as you stick to a strict ideal), but I strictly disagree with the forcing of homosexuality on the church.

Another thing is that what the rest of the world is most concerned about when it comes to America is undeniably money. The disastrous and shoddy management of your economy by the Bush administration is having dire effects over her in Britain and Europe. Whatever happens in America has big effects here as far as money is concerned and so anyone who can get your economy back to the state Clinton left it in is welcome by us.

the thing about mccains choice is to a certain extent he does have to think about getting in, I mean what use is biden if obama doesn't get elected? I think he had to choose a minority and she was the best choice.
yes if would have been nice if he had chosen someone with more experience, but she does have more than obama...who spent a term in the senate, did not author a single piece of legislation (some congressman author 40 or so if I remember correctly and the average is around 15) and has basically spent the time running for prez...thats kinda scary to me...
and the thing is, theres a huge difference between a inexperienced VP, and an inexperienced prez...I g2g eat breakfast, but I respect most of your views, and find myself agreeing with you a lot turin.

[Gil-Estel]

And again I find myself intrigued by this debate. I have strong feelings about the US, and most of them are not positive. I get the impression of a man telling another how to build a house while his own is coming down. It is obvious that the US is in trouble. A weak dollar, an uncertain situation with mortgages and such, not a very succedful story when it comes to foreign campaigns against terrorism, and regulations that are at least to say worthy of thorough ethical debate.
But the thing that frightens me most is what I call capital-fundamentalism. A holy believe in that the course you take is the right one. Self critisism isn't being shown and instead of being humble, pride is marching. In the netherlands it is the same. Social care is being replaced for competing health-insurance companies, because the 'market' will bring higher quality and cheaper products because of competition.

Step away from your pride and take time to review some things. What does it mean to live in a free country? What do we want our goverment to do? Serve our best interest, for all, or not? What is our best interest? What do we find important? I would be concerned about the things I mentioned above, at the start of my observations, as I am concerned about a few of those things in my own country.
Also, I think the whole politic scene is getting more corrupt over the years. Where at the start of things, as with all great efforts, the maingoals where obvious, nowadays schemes are all around, people are lobbying for major companies and money, status and power are driving forces...who is to be trusted?
Obama? I don't like people who try to convince others not of their own quality, but to blame the opposing party instead -the story about McCain adopting children illegaly-. McCain? I don't know, and it seems that choosing a woman as a running mate is more of a electiontrick to lure more votes.....
But then again, I do not know much about the US, but could someone please be so kind to tell where are all the funds from they use to pay for their exhorbitant expensive campaigns?

[SomeRandomDude]

What is our best interest?

Therein is the question of the ages, and the one that divides Democrats and Republicans. In my opinion, Democrats are very shortsighted, whilst Republicans look more towards the long-term and neglect the short-term.

[Pepin The Breve]

  GE proposed some good question to think about... I don´t live in USA and i´m not fully aware of it´s Socio-political moment and history but i do know some things that can help me to came up with some thoughts...

   I live in Brazil that you can say it´s a very corrupt country. All the time we face some political escandal involving some politician. people around here love to keep blaming them (with reason of course) that they are this or that, but what few realize is that corruption is spread among the citizens. What espect from your politicians if they came from a similar social enviroment than most of population. Obviously there are plenty of variations depending on which way you was raised, the facts you experienced, etc and i should agree that some opportunists actively search for a "place at the sun" (to not mention that some get benefits from being relative of a politician and just "low with the waves"). Im not saying that "everyone is corrupt and that´s it and we can´t do anything about with" not at all! But we should try to comprehend some facts at the light of an enviroment that aren´t there only by chance but because of a particular evolution. If people from, say, Island are know to be "less corrupt country" (because of cultural issues / strong selective pressure against) you can expect this will reflect in their politicians.

   For the correlation of political experience with a good govern i like to say some things: Seems obvious that we have some relation here (i would like to remind you that political experience isnt only had a "political job" e.g. being a politician, governator, senator, etc.), a person that lived most of  his/her years outside of close contact with this world is less likely to know how many thing operate and what are the ways to deal with them. But that´s not all.
   Many of the most corrupt politicians around here are the most experienced ones. When the current Brazil president won the elections many people were astonished by the fact that he was a humble worker that grow politically on the sindical movements (maybe because his left tendencies). But in fact, besides many negative aspects i could name, this is been one of the better governs of the last decades (we can´t forget that no person rules a country alone). So it´s good don´t judge a book only by it´s cover the but principally by his content...
   I´m really not putting all that hope on Obama but i think that McCain is far more previsible in terms of internal and external politics (and i can´t say that i aprove very much his style). Anyway just try to look with critical mind to what are said...)

   For the health debate i must say that we can correlate only socialism or capitalism to a good health system. I´m not really a fan of Fidel Castro but i think we can´t deny that Cuba have one of the best Health system and health technologies in the World and it´s much more to a socialism than a capitalism. In England, Brazil, and many other capitalist countries as far as i know they don´t let a person bleeding to death if they don´t have a health plan or sort of. I could be wrong since i don´t live and experience US reallity, but for what i know the US health system seems to be much more about business...  Our public plans of health here in Brazil really sucks in many aspects but still life seems to be the priority.

   About the Homo stuff: I really don´t have nothing against a person to be homosexual (be he or she) since he/she respects my heterosexual option (which i think is a very better choice  ) and i think they (the homosexual) must be respected before law and before society. I have a couple of lesbian friends and a a gya teacher at the college and they are reaaly nice persons, so no worries or prejudices about that.

  Well, we can find good and bad things in our own countries (be it Brazil, United States, Russia, China, Casaquistan, Romenia...) but like GE said (with better words in his second paragraph) we should be aware at what we intend at having a governament this or that way, to behaviour this or that way, to live this or that way...

   So you really can have hope that things will change (obviuosly they will, but "best if for what we think it´s better") cause that´s a important step to achieve that.

  Try to open your mind to some new angles of view and maybe you can start to see things in a different way. I´m not here to make some speech about it at the edge of my ignorance, but just giving a critical look to some things can make a real difference.

[Gil-Estel]

What is our best interest?

Therein is the question of the ages, and the one that divides Democrats and Republicans.

And who's interests are being served? Those of the peoples, or those of the companies......

[sickofpalantirs]

ah thats the question isn't it? and how exclusive are they? and that is where the debate comes in...

[menace64]

But then again, I do not know much about the US, but could someone please be so kind to tell where are all the funds from they use to pay for their exhorbitant expensive campaigns?

A lot of money comes from independent donations by normal citizens (I myself donated uh, well, quite a bit to Ron Paul's campaign). There are fairly strict rules regarding donations for elections here, but I'm sure there are illegal donations that go unnoticed.

I would like to clarify what I said before about Obama and McCain behaving more-or-less identically once in office. I see our political system as this: the higher up you go, the more people tie ropes around your neck. By the time you're running for president, you have so many favors for large donations or "friends" who helped you along the way that are influential among moneyed individuals that you inevitably spend more time coaxing their needs instead of doing your job.

Obama hasn't even finished his first term in the Senate and look where he is now. How do you think that is? By his own shoe-strings? I think not. He's dug himself deep into the system: he's entrenched. If he is elected president, he'll spend the first 3 years doing what he's promised his political allies he'd do. On the 4th year he'll utter the same promises of change and paradise that he's uttering now, and more likely than not our society would fall for it all over again.

And I figure McCain is in a similar situation, but for a different reason. He's been in politics for so long that by now he's got to be deep into so many circles that he probably can't even keep track of the debts he owes. The only benefit to this is that he's probably a lot better at this sort of thing than Obama is, which may give McCain a little more 'free' time to actually get something done as president.

Both candidates are corrupt, backward-facing southpaws that would prefer lying to the free citizens of the world just to sit in the big chair for a day, rather than run an honest bid for the most powerful position in the world in an attempt to make that same world a little bit better.

[sickofpalantirs]

I sense much bitterness O ron paulian

[SomeRandomDude]

What is our best interest?

Therein is the question of the ages, and the one that divides Democrats and Republicans.

And who's interests are being served? Those of the peoples, or those of the companies......

If the interests of the companies are served, then the interests of the economy is being served, and thus the people. Small business is extremely crucial to America, our economy is COMPLETELY different from European Socialism.

Success of business = success of economy = success of the people...who are willing to work. Democrats, on the other hand, are for the success of the people who want welfare. You know what? My mom grew up below the poverty level. And now she owns her own business. Because she was willing to work. My dad had no formal education, except an associate's degree, and is now in the leadership of an international corporation! If they can do that, so can anyone else, we don't need government handouts, they don't help the people, they cripple the people. The way to help the people is to help the economy.


Anyways. Back on Palin. Speech yesterday, it was awesome. Just plain awesome.

[Gil-Estel]

ah...mercy is for the weak...that kinda thing......

on: how is she doing with all the critisism going on? Her daughter being pregnant and all?