Post your Gemp-LotR bugs here

[dmaz]

Very strange bug appeared yesterday in a FotR league game. (thanks jvpwnerer for cancelling after the bug was discovered) I used Valiant Man of the West on Aragorn and when I went to assign two minions to him I got the error message "Assignments are not valid for the effects affecting this card". I could only assign one minion to Aragorn. I asked my opponent to assign the other to Aragorn since it wouldn't let me. He tried and also got the same error message (see screen shot from HIS game window). Obviously I should have been able to assign both, but even if I did not, the Shadow player should NEVER be restricted on when assigning extra minions (except is rare cases where special abilities are concerned). No idea what caused this and haven't seen it happen before. I tried the deck again today and did not have the same problem.

You have that handy site 6 to blame for it.
Almost always a good thing, but in this case, Frodo is in danger.

[BigRedMF]

OMG, you are absolutely right! I feel like a total noob!

[sgtdraino]

There's a bug with Dunlending Ravager: His text states:

Assignment: Spot an ally to make that ally participate in skirmishes and assign this minion to skirmish that ally.

So, since that ally is now participating in skirmishes, you should be able to also assign Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow to that same ally. Gemp will currently not let you do that.

[bibfortuna25]

It might be a bug with Bill too. I've never checked to see if he can assign himself to allies in other circumstances.

[sgtdraino]

Here's another bug, kind of an unusual situation:

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=sgtdraino$ch017vwcl8gkj324

At site 8, my opponent has 1x Drawn to Its Power in play and 3x Gates of the Dead City in play. I allow Frodo to be killed, which first triggers Drawn to Its Power, since that's an automatic action. But since Frodo is dead and Sam's response hasn't happened yet, Drawn to Its Power doesn't actually add a burden (because there's no ring-bearer to add a burden to!). However, the 3x Gates of the Dead City still trigger, exerting three of my guys. I'd call this a bug, since no burden was actually added to trigger Gates of the Dead City. After those cards all key off, Sam finally took the ring with zero burdens on him.

[dmaz]

Here's another bug, kind of an unusual situation:

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=sgtdraino$ch017vwcl8gkj324

At site 8, my opponent has 1x Drawn to Its Power in play and 3x Gates of the Dead City in play. I allow Frodo to be killed, which first triggers Drawn to Its Power, since that's an automatic action. But since Frodo is dead and Sam's response hasn't happened yet, Drawn to Its Power doesn't actually add a burden (because there's no ring-bearer to add a burden to!). However, the 3x Gates of the Dead City still trigger, exerting three of my guys. I'd call this a bug, since no burden was actually added to trigger Gates of the Dead City. After those cards all key off, Sam finally took the ring with zero burdens on him.

That certainly looks like a bug to me.
The burden was never added since the first trigger Drawn to Its Power goes off before Sam's response.

I can see this as a problem with the "required trigger effect" thingy that goes on in the gemp system. It views Drawn to Its Power within the "system" as triggering, so even though the burden didn't hit the system allowed Gates to trigger as well.

I that this "required trigger effect" thing where the card blinks or pulses (you know what I mean) may need to be looked at in general. I think an exhausted minion still blinks at the start of a skirmish against a mounted companion, maybe someone else can back me up on this. The rules state that this trigger effect of the mount against an exhausted minion should be ignored, but i guess the system doesn't ignore it....maybe MarcinS made it so that the FP couldn't react with cards like Unheeded to an exhausted minion "trying" to exert, but if Unheeded does work in this case then it is bugged.
Anyway that's beside the point, but was just an example of "required trigger effect" things I've seen going haywire.

[BigRedMF]

Watch the replay.  You wounded the un-wounded Bounder twice, not the wounded bounder.

I just tested out WK with the following allies in play:

Barliman Butterbur wearing armor but exhausted
Rumil exhausted with Hosts of the Last Alliance in play
Bounder exhausted
Bounder fully healed

WK allowed me to choose ANY of them to wound twice, including Barliman with Armor who clearly can't take more than 1 wound anyway. If they were all exhausted, however, it forced me to exert a companion. This is a card that rule of fulfilling choices has screwed over - if I am controlling the WK I should be able to do whichever I think will benefit me more regardless of whether I am fully capable of one option. That rule was obviously intended to prevent people from taking an easy way out of a choice if they were forced with one, but it really should have been directed at forced consequences rather than beneficial choices.

Regardless, there is still a bug with WK Deathless Lord

[Merrick_H]

Looks like there are two new issues discovered.  Good catches.  I'll forward them on to Marcin and see what he says.

Regards,

Merrick_H

[Durin's Heir]

For the Drawn to its Power problem, in my experience Gemp treats burdens as things independant of the Ringbearer. The system adds a burden, no matter if there is a Ringbearer or not. If there's no Ringbearer, the new burden just doesn't lower the resistance of the inexistant Ringbearer, that's all. And then burdens are cleared when Sam takes the Ring.

I think the system should treat burdens as things dependant on the existance of a Ringbearer. But that's not the case.

[sgtdraino]

Yeah, a burden is a thing that goes on the ring-bearer, just like a wound only black instead of red. You can't put a wound on a guy who isn't on the table, and you can't add a burden if there's no ring-bearer on the table to add a burden to. IMO, of course.

[bibfortuna25]

I found a minor bug with Dread and Despair.

When the event is played, the FP is given the choice of discarding 6 off the top before the Shadow player chooses which condition to discard. It should be the other way around, so the FP can know if he wants to actually save the condition or not.

[dmaz]

I found a minor bug with Dread and Despair.

When the event is played, the FP is given the choice of discarding 6 off the top before the Shadow player chooses which condition to discard. It should be the other way around, so the FP can know if he wants to actually save the condition or not.

Good find! See how all of this WotR playing is doing some good!

Minor bug, but looks like it might be out of my knowledge base to fix.
Currently it's treating the card like any other do Y to prevent X card. In almost every case, X is known and stated on the card, but in this case X is a decision the Shadow player needs to make first...a variable the function doesn't seem to account for.
This card runs off of PreventableEffect.java, which it looks like I could change to make the step by step process different. However, I'm uncertain as to how that will affect other cards running off of PreventableEffect.java. I need to talk to TheGaffer before I can submit a Pull Request :S

[BigRedMF]

This gets back to the TGaT argument. I think you are discarding to prevent the card effect from carrying out, which is why your opponent doesn't choose yet. It's consistent with TGaT preventing the effect and not the wounds.

[dmaz]

This gets back to the TGaT argument. I think you are discarding to prevent the card effect from carrying out, which is why your opponent doesn't choose yet. It's consistent with TGaT preventing the effect and not the wounds.

That's a good point...one I had never thought of.

If you argue that "prevent" in TGaT is preventing the effect of the card, then it makes sense that the choice to discard the 6 off the top in Dread and Despair can only be to prevent "discard a condition", not any specific condition. Is that kind of what you're getting at? Does make sense to me.

Those that were so fiercely fighting for this argument about TGaT were standing on the fact that the prevention happens before the wounding is sent out. So if that were true here they technically shouldn't know what condition gets discarded if they choose to prevent....

[sgtdraino]

That's a great point, the cards are worded almost the same. Yet another reason why I stand behind my side of the argument, that TGaT is indeed preventing wounds. A bit ironic that bib is on the other side of the issue this time.

Got a bug to report:

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=sgtdraino$uej3709fza038j7a

I feel like I remember this being reported before, but if it has, it's still doing it. During Fellowship I was at Site 7, The Great River ("While the Fellowship is at The Great River, cards may not be played from draw decks or discard piles"). Without thinking about it, I played A Wizard is Never Late. The site quite properly prevented the event from working... but somehow this also immediately ended the rest of my Fellowship phase and caused me to move to the next site, before I could heal Boromir or play Sleep, Caradhras.