Post your Gemp-LotR bugs here

[Merrick_H]

I noticed a bug with The Witch-King, Deathless Lord. See the replay, when my opponent was at Site 6 he had Rumil on the table with two wounds on him. WK killed a companion and instead of giving me the option to exert a companion OR wound an ally twice, it automatically prompted me to exert a companion. I am assuming the code may be looking for an ally with at least 2 vitality, but I don't think that should be a requirement to make the choice.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=bigredmf$kph8lqb7knv7kbs7

This is not a bug.

If the effect of a card or special ability requires  you to choose one of two different actions, you must choose an action that you are fully capable of performing (if possible).

Since you cannot wound an ally twice, you must exert a companion

[dmaz]

I noticed a bug with The Witch-King, Deathless Lord. See the replay, when my opponent was at Site 6 he had Rumil on the table with two wounds on him. WK killed a companion and instead of giving me the option to exert a companion OR wound an ally twice, it automatically prompted me to exert a companion. I am assuming the code may be looking for an ally with at least 2 vitality, but I don't think that should be a requirement to make the choice.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=bigredmf$kph8lqb7knv7kbs7

This is not a bug.

If the effect of a card or special ability requires  you to choose one of two different actions, you must choose an action that you are fully capable of performing (if possible).

Since you cannot wound an ally twice, you must exert a companion

Is it possible this quote is being misapplied? If there is an exhausted ally in play, how are you not capable of wounding him twice? Subsequently he dies after the first wound is taken, but where in the rules does it state you need to precognitively review everything before taking actions?

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=dmaz$eg82qxkvbxx390x4

An exhausted gandalf can be wounded twice.

According to this logic, an exhausted gandalf is not fully capable of being wounded twice?

One would argue that you are simply "fulfilling the maximum possible of the effect", but you cannot state that merely because that disclaimer you could apply it wholly to this situation with the Witch King. I can understand if the card is asking you to do something to a target that doesn't exist (i.e. if there are no allies in play). But I believe that if there is an ally in play, just like Gandalf it is capable of being wounded twice.

I can't find anywhere in the rules where it states that a minions game text functions differently than an event in this case.

[bibfortuna25]

The only time you'll be able to wound Rumil in that situation is if all companions are exhausted.

It's the same reasoning with Boromir BOC. If he is exhausted, you cannot choose the wounding option.

[dmaz]

The only time you'll be able to wound Rumil in that situation is if all companions are exhausted.

It's the same reasoning with Boromir BOC. If he is exhausted, you cannot choose the wounding option.

It states in the rules specifically that an exhausted companion can't be exerted.

Where does it make the clarification that an exhausted companion is not capable of being wounded twice?

[bibfortuna25]

It doesn't, but the rule states that you must choose the effect that you can "fully complete." You cannot fully complete the effect of wounding Rumil twice, because once he takes the first wound, he dies.

[BigRedMF]

I disagree, I think you can wound without restriction on how many times, even it is more than that character can take. All other examples of choices where one can't be chosen are expressly dictated by the rules:
Crashed Gate - you can't add more threats than there are companions
Worry - you can't exert an exhausted Ring-bearer
Saruman's Reach - you can't exert an exhausted companion
There is nothing in the rules that prevents you from wounding an exhausted character twice. You can fully complete wounding them twice by assigning two wounds to them.

[Eukalyptus]

worry is a good example. since you cannot exert the ringbearer, the burden is added. just like you cannot wound rumil twice, you have to exert a companion.

you're not listening to what bib is saying, he is right. i don't know anyone who is more versed with the rules than him.

[dmaz]

Just had a game where it game me the option to use the WK's game text on an exerted bounder.
I think it was site 4.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=dmaz$ddf9ypanxh1kukl1

BigRedMF is listening exactly to what bib is saying, bib just isn't listening to his point.
Bib argues that if you cannot "place" each and every wound that you are not "fully completing" the requirement of wounding twice.

BigRedMF's point is that bib is assuming that the definition of fulfilling the action of wounding twice means that every wound must be placed separately. It IS an assumption, as in the rules, only exertion is specified as unable to perform unless the vitality is there.

Until bib can show clearly from the actual rules that the action of wounding twice is fulfilled by placement and not targeting and sending of wounds, nothing has really been proved...

[Merrick_H]

Just had a game where it game me the option to use the WK's game text on an exerted bounder.
I think it was site 4.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=dmaz$ddf9ypanxh1kukl1

You were able to use the WKs text to target the Bounder because there was a second Bounder on the table that hadn't been exerted.

[dmaz]

Also keep in mind that Rumil was unable to be wounded by Malice as well in a seperate game, which is only a single wound.

We could explore the possibility that this is something surrounding Rumil. In any case some test games would help show how MarcinS actually coded it, I'd reckon, since we have situations where WK can wound an exhausted ally and can't.

[dmaz]

Just had a game where it game me the option to use the WK's game text on an exerted bounder.
I think it was site 4.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=dmaz$ddf9ypanxh1kukl1

You were able to use the WKs text to target the Bounder because there was a second Bounder on the table that hadn't been exerted.

Why should that allow me to target the exerted bounder if, according to bib's version, I need to wound AN ally twice?

[Merrick_H]

Watch the replay.  You wounded the un-wounded Bounder twice, not the wounded bounder.

[dmaz]

Watch the replay.  You wounded the un-wounded Bounder twice, not the wounded bounder.

I did the more practical thing because it was a league game

The game gave me the option to target the exerted bounder, which according to bib should not ever be an option. I could have just as easily killed the exerted bounder.

I'll run some test games when I get a chance to see what's going on with this ally wounding business anyway....

[Cthulhu]

BigRedMF's point is that bib is assuming that the definition of fulfilling the action of wounding twice means that every wound must be placed separately. It IS an assumption

But its NOT an assumption, its the rules, see below.

Until bib can show clearly from the actual rules that the action of wounding twice is fulfilled by placement and not targeting and sending of wounds, nothing has really been proved...

Here you go:

wound
Place a wound token on the character to illustrate this. Wounds are always placed on a character one at a time.

[BigRedMF]

Very strange bug appeared yesterday in a FotR league game. (thanks jvpwnerer for cancelling after the bug was discovered) I used Valiant Man of the West on Aragorn and when I went to assign two minions to him I got the error message "Assignments are not valid for the effects affecting this card". I could only assign one minion to Aragorn. I asked my opponent to assign the other to Aragorn since it wouldn't let me. He tried and also got the same error message (see screen shot from HIS game window). Obviously I should have been able to assign both, but even if I did not, the Shadow player should NEVER be restricted on when assigning extra minions (except is rare cases where special abilities are concerned). No idea what caused this and haven't seen it happen before. I tried the deck again today and did not have the same problem.

EDIT: I did not even notice what site I was at (thanks dmaz). Please disregard!