What are some anti-Gollum strategies?

[sgtdraino]

Recently I bumped up against a wicked Ninja Gollum deck that just seemed unstoppable to me. Normally with such decks, my defense is to get rid of all those conditions Gollum relies on, and then (on top of that) avoid skirmishing him as much as possible... because in my experience with Ninja Gollum decks, if Gollum ever skirmishes your guys, BAD STUFF is going to happen.

BUT this deck incorporated multiple copies of Deceit (I'm surprised I haven't seen it more often) which makes it all but impossible to get rid of his conditions.

So what are some strategies/cards that people can use to help protect their freeps from Ninja Gollum?

I'd like this thread to be a repository for such strategies. Your help is appreciated!

[bibfortuna25]

Armor, if you're playing
Vilya can send a key condition back to hand.
Clever Hobbits can also be useful, even if Deceit is out.
Ithilien Blade can deal with Shelob.
And I've found that Fates Entwined can be really helpful if you're running mostly Hobbits.

[sgtdraino]

Armor, if you're playing

Good point. I actually stock Armor, I just never drew it either game. And he didn't seem to have any possession removal. Maybe I should add more.

Vilya can send a key condition back to hand.

At one point he had at least three Deceit out, so that wouldn't be enough. I guess I could temporarily rid myself of one for one turn, but the downside of having to get out both Elrond and Vilya to do this seems like a lot of work for little payoff.

Clever Hobbits can also be useful, even if Deceit is out.

That's not bad if there is little or no twilight. My current method is Deep in Thought, but then you've got at least 8 twilight in there, 8 conditions he can protect. And my deck generates a lot of twilight. Generally, there is probably going to be too much in there to nail them, even with the cheaper Clever Hobbits. Plus I hate to stock a card that only works on Gollum stuff unless it's a sure bet.

Ithilien Blade can deal with Shelob.

My deck is an Ithilien Blade deck, and Shelob is generally no problem (except for preventing guys from Skirmishing). Gollum though... see below.

And I've found that Fates Entwined can be really helpful if you're running mostly Hobbits.

Meh. I just don't like them.

Gollum has a really good counter to Ithilien Blade: Final Strike. This mostly limits me to events in terms of countering him. The best defense I currently have is What Are They? That works great, because if I'm not adding threats, Gollum is. For most of the game it's pretty easy to keep him roaming, until he starts killing off my guys and removing the threats. The problem arises when I run out of What Are They? and he gets out Final Strike... or I just don't get a good draw, of course. It seems like once one guy goes down, the rest follow pretty quickly. He is of course using Promise Keeping, Fat One Wants It, Not Easily Avoided, Not This Time!, They Stole It, Web, Captured By the Ring and a variety of ways to keep playing Gollum every turn. He also uses hardcore site manipulation to repeatedly play sites that wound my guys or prevent healing every time I move.

I guess Armor is a pretty good defense against fighting, although he'll also use Horribly Strong and Little Snuffler to wound guys during Shadow, and Unseen Foe to nail all of my strong guys in Regroup. If I haven't managed to get rid of Gollum prior to Skirmish, he's probably surviving until Regroup, because naturally Shelob has prevented my best guy from fighting him... and Gollum is often moderately strong to start with due to various other actions. Eventually he'll pop a guy, often in the Shadow or Regroup phase, where the One Ring I use won't let me take the threats as burdens (assuming I'm not already heavily burdened from previous threats). I could switch to The One Ring, The Ring of Rings, but I think that would leave my ring-bearer too weak to a lot of other deck strategies.

My deck is Gondor/Gandalf cuture, with a Frodo Ring-bearer. Here are some strategies I'm considering:

I run Grimbeorn with his Beorning Axe, so theoretically I can keep retrieving cards over and over. So I'm considering:

-Terrible and Evil: A costlier Gandalf version of What Are They? Can't really use this much before the cost becomes too high, though.

-Keep Your Forked tongue: This would let me skirmish Gollum with impunity, but he can still nail me during Shadow and Regroup.

-Citadel to Gate: This would get the threats off and heal my guys, but the cost is high, and it also defeats the general strategy of my deck to keep threats on.

-Final Account: This is probably my best bet overall. It would let me get back my What Are They?, as well as a decent minion to either play on his guys or use with Grimbeorn. I've previously been using On Your Doorstep, but that means I most likely won't get it back until the following turn. So, maybe I should swap out On Your Doorstep with Final Account!

I'm also considering Aragorn's Bow to use with Aragorn, Thorongil, who can add threats to exert Gollum down to one, and then smite him with the Bow... but the more I think about it, Final Account may well be my best bet!

ETA: WHOOPS! Final Account is X-listed. Back to the drawing board!

I still feel like my best bet is to cycle What Are They? somehow... maybe On Your Doorstep coupled with Elrond, Lord of Rivendell?

[hsiale]

99% of the time you should use Vilya to get rid of Promise Keeping. It is unique so there will be no multiple copies out. You have to get Elrond, but 3 copies of him should give decent chance of this. And Vilya can be downloaded via The Binding Ring (which is probably quite good idea to play anyway, as in some cases you may want to get Narya or Ring of Barahir quickly).

BTW, Gondor/Gandalf should definitely use Boromir ring-bearer. This way you can start with Denethor, LoMT and get the cards you need the most at site 3 - so if you play against Ninja Gollum, you always have Armor out early.

[sgtdraino]

99% of the time you should use Vilya to get rid of Promise Keeping. It is unique so there will be no multiple copies out.

Hmmm. I guess that would keep it off my back for a while. Yet still, Promise Keeping is only a small part of the problem.

You have to get Elrond, but 3 copies of him should give decent chance of this. And Vilya can be downloaded via The Binding Ring (which is probably quite good idea to play anyway, as in some cases you may want to get Narya or Ring of Barahir quickly).

I don't run any of those other rings, and right now that feels like too much real estate.

BTW, Gondor/Gandalf should definitely use Boromir ring-bearer. This way you can start with Denethor, LoMT and get the cards you need the most at site 3 - so if you play against Ninja Gollum, you always have Armor out early.

At this point you've had a chance to kinda see how my deck operates. I think you'd agree that Boromir ring-bearer doesn't really work with it. Besides, I make great use out of the Boromir that can heal himself every turn.

For now, the countermeasure I took is to add Elrond, Lord of Rivendell, so that I can immediately retrieve a card I cycle with On Your Doorstep. In theory that could get me back one What Are They per turn. Of course, that is IF I find Elrond first. Not a perfect solution, but all I've got for now.

Still considering whether or not to add Vilya.

[bibfortuna25]

I almost forgot, Sapling of the White Tree can be really helpful too.

[Shelobplayer]

Spirit of the White Tree works fine against most builds. Although I personally pack my ninja gollum shadow with Buckland Homestead, Nelya, Third of the Nine Riders, Lemenya, ET and a shotgun Enquea to remove annoying conditions like that or Namarie.

[sgtdraino]

Good suggestions guys! I've especially made use of Spirit of the White Tree.

[jdizzy001]

and yet here is one more reason I don't play anything after shadows tough luck sgt. What about something that discards all conditions simultaneously? Would that work, something like grown suddenly tall?

[sgtdraino]

What about something that discards all conditions simultaneously? Would that work, something like grown suddenly tall?

Good question! I have wondered about that myself. Putting aside the issue that you'll be bombing your own conditions as well as your opponent's, the main issue I see is that Deceit doesn't have to spot Gollum in order to work, and Grown Suddenly Tall costs 5 twilight. If my understanding of the timing issues is correct, you would have to pay 5 to play Grown Suddenly Tall, and then your opponent would, at a minimum, be able to take out 5 twilight to prevent 5 conditions of his choice from being discarded. He'll be able to save all of his most important ones, it seems to me.

You'd need something that can discard conditions for free, like Namarie.

[Haszor]

You'd need something that can discard conditions for free, like Namarie.

Which, as we all know, is a completely over-powered card.  I think Sleep Caradhras would work better, as it only let's him keep 3 conditions, though that is not great.  If I remember correctly, you can use clever hobbits repeatedly until he runs out of pool, though I'm not certain.

[jdizzy001]

clever hobbits would be vile to use against deceit. however, I dont see a reason to pack a card that you MIGHT use. Then again, I just played against someone who packed 2 anti galadriel cards "just in case." Of course I myself am considering stacking Stand Against Darkness to counter the Sauron's I have been encountering as of late. The last 2 movie block games I played were lost due to a site 9 Sauron.

[Ringbearer]

Deceit prevents even when all conditions go at once.

And Clever Hobbits is an event so a one time use.


IMHO Spirit of the white tree and Realms Vilya are the best options.

[sgtdraino]

Which, as we all know, is a completely over-powered card.

Meh. In this case, since Namarie works during maneuver, the opponent could just make sure to leave enough twilight to protect his guys. Usually not a problem with ninja gollum.

I think Sleep Caradhras would work better, as it only let's him keep 3 conditions, though that is not great.

Meh. I agree, better, but not that great.

If I remember correctly, you can use clever hobbits repeatedly until he runs out of pool, though I'm not certain.

That might work, but it's usefulness is pretty limited for anything other than ninja gollum. Still, looks like you don't need to play smeagol in order to play the card, so this might be the best bet. I wonder if, for "any number," you can choose a number greater than the number of conditions that are on the table? I might have to try that.

clever hobbits would be vile to use against deceit. however, I dont see a reason to pack a card that you MIGHT use.

Depends on how powerful you think the strategy is, and how often you think you'll encounter it. I pack a couple Ships of Great Draught in my deck, just in case I encounter Madril.

Deceit prevents even when all conditions go at once.

And Clever Hobbits is an event so a one time use.

Yeah, but the card says discard "any number" of gollum conditions. If you choose the number 999, there's no way he can remove enough twilight to prevent that.

The issue is whether or not you can choose a number greater than the number of conditions on the table. I'd like to see a ruling on that.

[bibfortuna25]

You can't discard more conditions than there are in play.