Second Edition Brainstorm

[nolwestel]

If not a chat room, we can try using a wiki  like wikidot.com or some other free wiki. Beyond that, forums are probably our best bet, but both are better at sharing information than collaborating on it.

[Hobbiton Lad]

It's not that I don't want to collaborate. It's just that I want to make sure I have dedicated people who will really work on this. Fenix has proven himself is all.

I'll open up the Isengard and the Dunland docs to whoever wants be on the team.

EDIT: I'd probably like to limit the team to 5 people for the sake of efficiency and communication.

[MarcinS]

What about changing the rules, especially around timing to avoid the problem that Gemp-LotR has at the moment, where if game pauses at specific moments, you can be sure your opponent has a card of some type?

[nolwestel]

I don't know how people here feel about Magic, but I feel the lead designer is a very smart guy.  He wrote a couple of articles during the GDS 1 & 2 that may have some application here. I know they don't translate 1 to 1, but still might be useful.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/132
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/78

Also, spreadsheets would be more useful if we wanted to design a skeleton first

[Hobbiton Lad]

What about changing the rules, especially around timing to avoid the problem that Gemp-LotR has at the moment, where if game pauses at specific moments, you can be sure your opponent has a card of some type?

I have given a great deal of thought to this. You're probably right about the program having some inherent issues with the game's "pass or play" mechanic as far as giving away information, but I'm just not ready to depart from that. I know we're going to be doing a lot of playtesting online, but I also want the cards in this game to be printed for live play as well. That's what LotR TCG was originally designed for, and I want to remain true to that vision.

As far as the timing issues with Gemp, people are just going to have to live with that. Personally, I think it adds another wrinkle of strategy to the game, but that's just me. For the most part, however, pass or play is definitely preferred for this environment.

I feel like the MtG timing system would greatly benefit the FPP above the Shadow player. As of right now, if the FPP passes and the Shadow player takes an action, the FPP can respond but both actions get to resolve immediately instead of a "last in, first out" scenario. Under MtG rules, the FPP would always be able to "pass" and then get the jump on the Shadow player with some sort of "instant" response, and then the Shadow player would have to use another trick. I know it doesn't sound much different than things are now, but trust me, it will be.

So, as of right now, it's pass or play, just like LotR 1E.

[fenix]

I agree, we shouldn't change the rules too much. My opinion on the matter of developing sets is that we should have a small number of people designing cards. Then, we should post those cards on the forums and have a larger group of people comment on these cards and suggest changes. Then, have an even larger group of people play test these cards.

I think this will improve the quality of 2E as well as the haste of its release. In the future, when we release new sets, new people can start developing cards and older people can move to other roles.

[Helkadal]

I agree, we shouldn't change the rules too much. My opinion on the matter of developing sets is that we should have a small number of people designing cards. Then, we should post those cards on the forums and have a larger group of people comment on these cards and suggest changes. Then, have an even larger group of people play test these cards.

Sounds like a great plan to me!

I think this will improve the quality of 2E as well as the haste of its release. In the future, when we release new sets, new people can start developing cards and older people can move to other roles.

Alternating or rotating groups of developers is great to increase the variability between sets. Another great suggestion!

[Cw0rk]

I don't know how good you guys are at designing cards, but if you want to get good people to help on that, I would suggest asking the help of menace64 or Thranduil who have both been very active in the Chamber of Mazarbul forum.

EDIT: Actually, why don't you just take this DC set from Thranduil. http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,4075.0.html In my opinion, he is one of the best designer of TLHH. You will save A LOT of extra work by doing that.

[fenix]

They look like they would make excellent additions. Do they still play?

[hsiale]

I don't know if I want to share docs with a bunch of people, simply for the confusion that can come about. What would you guys suggest as a better collaboration method for design? I can post cards that we've come up with in a different thread if you guys like. Maybe one for each culture?

I think the best way to go would be asking Kralik to create a subforum here where you have moderator rights and that is visible only to you and people you invited. Most forum software allow doing such things. Then noone needs to register anywhere as we all use this forum daily anyway.

[MarcinS]

I found all the articles in "Nuts & Bolts" series by Mark Rosewater on card set design very interesting and enlightening, here are the links in the order they should be read:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/21
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/78
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/132
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/184

These were linked before, but only two of the articles, instead of all 4.

[Helkadal]

These are great! I already use skeletons for many things in my life (even for deciding my menu for the next two weeks lol), but these articles bring skeletons to a whole new level. OCD ALERT!

[fenix]

We are currently looking for another member to join the committee. This member would be primarily responsible for designing Smeagol/Gollum cards. These would be approximately 40 cards that would be playable right away (remember that there are no other sets in 2E yet).

We want each culture to have a unique theme that mimics the feel of that culture in the movies. At the moment, we are thinking about Smeagol being a guide that helps the fellowship avoid danger and Gollum being a minion that helps the fellowship find danger. For example, being able to play a large minion for fewer twilight tokens. However, other themes that match gollums feel in the story are possible.

If you are interested in helping with the Gollum culture please post 5 smeagol and 5 gollum DCs and we will pick the player with the best cards for the committee.

[neopium]

I don't have enough time to join the committee, but I support this 2E project that I find very interesting.

For people like me, who want to follow the progress of the project but cannot be part of the committee, it is a bit frustrating to see that the reflection is sort of private between the committee members. I don't want to know everything you do and say, but I would appreciate if there was a way to follow the project along the way and not have the results only once everything is done.

Another thought about cultures design. In 1E, there are a certain number of strategies that are very strong and were there isn't much that can be done against. I'm thinking about heavy archery or heavy easterling corruption. I think developing new strategies for 2E (or reusing existing one from 1E) is a good thing, but there should be more counter strategies as well, available in most of the cultures.

Against corruption, hobbits are the best (with Sam or A light in his mind for instance). Against archery, Dunland have very good cards, but they are so vulnerable to archery that it is often not enough. So I think there should be more balance and counterweights in 2E to prevent the emergence of too strong strategies.

[Hobbiton Lad]

I don't have enough time to join the committee, but I support this 2E project that I find very interesting.

For people like me, who want to follow the progress of the project but cannot be part of the committee, it is a bit frustrating to see that the reflection is sort of private between the committee members. I don't want to know everything you do and say, but I would appreciate if there was a way to follow the project along the way and not have the results only once everything is done.

The community will have plenty of opportunity to see things before they are "completed" in 2E. In fact, I plan to have the first draft of the Isengard culture available later today for everyone to take a look at. It's likely what we'll playtest, but I can say with almost 100% certainty that there will be many changes once playtesting starts.

So don't worry. You'll get to see cards long before they are "finished" and ready for release.