Sanction "Rage Quitting" for Certain "Broken" Strategies on Gemp?

[sgtdraino]

Had an idea, figured I'd toss it out for consideration:

A buddy of mine who plays on Gemp makes it his personal policy, whenever he encounters a player using the truly broken Gamling/Horn combo to play 25+ followers on turn one, to go ahead and leave the game without conceding (i.e. "rage quit"), so that the player will be forced to sit for ten minutes doing nothing if they want to win using that strategy. Since that is a truly and undeniably broken strategy, I don't really have a problem with that.

I was wondering if the creators and maintainers of Gemp might be interested in officially sanctioning such "rage quits" when certain specifically identified broken strategies are used, to thus discourage their use and make it clear that such conduct is frowned upon, and "rage quitting" under such conditions would carry no negative consequences for the person quitting.

On the plus side, it's not changing the rules of the game. If people want to play with (and against) such strategies, they can feel free to do so. It simply sets a tone regarding behavior commonly regarded as creating a negative player experience. It lets the player base know that quitting under such circumstances doesn't make someone a bad player, and that playing with broken strategies is poor sportsmanship.

Naturally, "rage quits" would only be sanctioned when they are done under conditions specifically approved by the creators and maintainers of Gemp.

Honestly, right now I can't think of anything else I would put on that list other than the Gamling/Horn combo, but I'm sure you guys have a few things in mind.

Thoughts?

[Arcanite]

Madril DoO/IB? (Expaned obv.)

[sgtdraino]

Hey Arcanite!

Madril, lol. IMO Madril isn't broken, because his effect can be negated by a single card that needs no culture enforcement (Ships of Great Draught), and of course there are other things that work against him and Ithilien Blade too, such as Greed, Hate, Final Strike, possession discarding, etc.

[Ringbearer]

I am vehemently against ANY form of ragequitting. With such behaviour you force your format upon other players, who play a perfectly legitimite strategy. How can that player know you dont like horn, you didnt tell beforehand. Its just poor sportmanship leaving a player waiting and IMHo should be penaltized. If you dont wanna play horn, make it known beforehand or just dont play expanded.

[sgtdraino]

You aren't seriously trying to argue that the Gamling, Defender of the Hornburg, Erkenbrand's Horn, New Chapter combo is a legitimate strategy are you? What do you mean how can a player know that you don't like that combo? Who the heck actually *likes* to play against that?

If you ask me, the person who plays that strategy should be the one to warn players that this is what they are using. Because if ANYTHING is broken in lotr, that definitely qualifies.

[ramolnar]

Madril DoO is more broken, because it's harder to knock out. Ships of Great Draught does work, but that's an off color splash that's useless against all other decks. A good Ithilien Blade deck should counter everything else. Sapling of the White Tree beats Hate, and Madril decks should be running multiples. Against Greed, there's Deep in Thought with Gandalf (who also creates threats) or just running five companions if you smell Uruks. And Uruks are not a top Shadow in Expanded.
The worst card in Madril/IB is not Ithilien Blade - it's What are They? That card eliminates Enquea, Gollum, Mouth of Sauron, and everything else.
Possession discard works just as well against Gamling - just remove the key Horns and things get messy. Madril has 4 Ithilien Blades instead of 2 Horns to remove. Gamling is also vulnerable to Cavern Entrance. Against Horn, my archery deck can mulligan if needed to Rapid Reload 75% of the time and exhaust everybody at site 2. Or I can play Wargs and exert enough times to kill somebody.

I don't like Erkenbrand's Horn, but it's more beatable than Madril, SoO. And one should never ragequit by waiting. If you don't want to play a deck, concede immediately and move on. Don't waste an opponent's time.

[Nitsuj]

Rage quitting is lame.  No excuse for it

[bibfortuna25]

I say if you play a broken format where Madril DoO, Horn or other terrible strategies are rampant, you deserve what you get.

[sgtdraino]

Ships of Great Draught does work, but that's an off color splash that's useless against all other decks.

The fact is, if Madril really were broken, then most decks would be tossing in a SoGD or two in order to counter him. It requires very little investment to counter. Most people are not doing that, therefore most people clearly don't view Madril as a serious threat.

Possession discard works just as well against Gamling - just remove the key Horns and things get messy.

If they're doing it "right," you have no chance to do that. All followers come out at site 1.

Madril has 4 Ithilien Blades instead of 2 Horns to remove.

There is only one thing to "remove," and that is Madril, which Ships of Great Draught does very effectively.

Gamling is also vulnerable to Cavern Entrance.

The 25+ followers aren't.

Against Horn, my archery deck can mulligan if needed to Rapid Reload 75% of the time and exhaust everybody at site 2.

If they're doing it "right," you won't be playing your site 2, or any other site. Exhaust everybody at site 2? Maybe! But so long as he survives, that's the last twilight you'll ever see, and your Rapid Reload is going to get mothed.

Or I can play Wargs and exert enough times to kill somebody.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Besides, the real issue with the Gamling/Horn combo isn't the strength of its free people's side, it's the fact that it filters virtually all the free people's cards out of the deck, and leaves your opponent with pure minions to play on you. A Gamling/Horn deck isn't trying to beat you to the end, it is simply going to kill you with its shadow.

I don't like Erkenbrand's Horn, but it's more beatable than Madril, SoO.

Nonsense.

And one should never ragequit by waiting. If you don't want to play a deck, concede immediately and move on. Don't waste an opponent's time.

I've never rage quit yet, but IMO Gamling/Horn/New Chapter is a blight on the playing environment, and anyone using that strategy deserves any aggravation they get because of it. After all, if they're going to make me wait 10 minutes while they play out half their deck in turn one, then they shouldn't be too surprised if some opponent makes them wait ten minutes in order to get a cheap win.

[bibfortuna25]

But unless you're playing in a league, there's no penalty for you yourself conceding if your opponent just leaves.

[Ringbearer]

You aren't seriously trying to argue that the Gamling, Defender of the Hornburg, Erkenbrand's Horn, New Chapter combo is a legitimate strategy are you? What do you mean how can a player know that you don't like that combo? Who the heck actually *likes* to play against that?

If you ask me, the person who plays that strategy should be the one to warn players that this is what they are using. Because if ANYTHING is broken in lotr, that definitely qualifies.

The rules permit the use of horn decks, so why shouldnt it be legitimate. That people play it is their choice, not yours. You are forcing people to not play a deck they want to play. If people want to play it, let them play it. I find ragequitting much more childish than playing Horn. Its like a small child not getting his favourite food then crying upstairs in their bedroom.

[bibfortuna25]

Agreed. Horn may not be fun to play against, but it is legal to use. I hate site path manipulation, and it is very frustrating to encounter Courtyard Parapet or Doorway to Doom or Steward's Tomb several times a game, but it is still legal for that sort of thing to occur in the formats that allow it. Don't like it? Then don't play that format.

[sgtdraino]

But unless you're playing in a league, there's no penalty for you yourself conceding if your opponent just leaves.

Really? You sure about that? So, you're saying if my opponent leaves the room for any reason, for any amount of time, and I concede, that's not logged as a loss? And my opponent doesn't get a win?

If that's really the case, then honestly I don't see why "rage quitting" is even an issue. Who cares then? It eats up no more time that a regular concession would.

The rules permit the use of horn decks, so why shouldnt it be legitimate.

Technically, the rules also allow "rage quitting." This isn't about what's legal, this is about sportsmanship.

That people play it is their choice, not yours.

And it's their opponents' choice whether or not to "rage quit" when they encounter that.

You are forcing people to not play a deck they want to play. If people want to play it, let them play it.

And if the people who play against it want to "rage quit," I say let them "rage quit." Especially if the Horn player can then concede with no penalty to themselves, and not have to wait the ten minutes.

I find ragequitting much more childish than playing Horn.

They're both childish. That's the point: Childishness begets childishness, an eye for an eye.

Here's an idea for you, if you don't like the notion of forcing people to play (or not play) something they don't like: How about if people encountering a Gamling/Horn deck first request a mutual cancel with the opponent. If the opponent agrees, then the game is canceled with no penalty to anyone. If the opponent refuses, then "rage quit" and (according to Bib) the Horn player can concede with no penalty and no wait time.

Agreed. Horn may not be fun to play against, but it is legal to use.

Again, this is not about what's legal or illegal. Bib, would you really argue that using the Gamling/Horn/New Chapter combo doesn't constitute bad sportsmanship? Simply for its filtering qualities, if nothing else?

I hate site path manipulation, and it is very frustrating to encounter Courtyard Parapet or Doorway to Doom or Steward's Tomb several times a game, but it is still legal for that sort of thing to occur in the formats that allow it.

I hate it too, but I still see that as borderline compared to the truly broken Gamling/Horn/New Chapter combo.

Don't like it? Then don't play that format.

Why quit the whole format, when you can simply quit opponents using that strategy? There's still plenty of good fun to be had with many other players.

[bibfortuna25]

"Really? You sure about that? So, you're saying if my opponent leaves the room for any reason, for any amount of time, and I concede, that's not logged as a loss? And my opponent doesn't get a win?"

If you're not in a league game, wins and losses don't matter. At all. Casual games are just that: casual. You play solely for fun. If you're not having fun with what your opponent is using, play a format that doesn't allow the cards you don't like.

Using Horn is not poor sportsmanship. Complaining about Horn is.

[sgtdraino]

If you're not in a league game, wins and losses don't matter. At all.

That depends on whether you care about your stats, doesn't it? As far as I know, Gemp tracks all that stuff.

Casual games are just that: casual. You play solely for fun.

No more or less than league games. It's all virtual, so the bottom line of ALL of it, is that we play for fun. Certain things detract from that fun.

If you're not having fun with what your opponent is using, play a format that doesn't allow the cards you don't like.

Uhm... NO. Who says it's all or nothing? Such absolutism is pointless. I will take the parts I like, and ditch the rest.

Using Horn is not poor sportsmanship. Complaining about Horn is.

Well, you and I will just have to disagree on that.