Towers Standard Sealed League

[dmaz]

As much as some might not want to hear, I actually think there is some good rationale with what DurinsHeir is saying. I honestly think making a nerfed Trust fellowship available in Serie 2 makes a lot of sense. You could include a couple Ents (Unhasty ones), and a couple Gandalf signet folks, a few Wizard tricks, and 2 x Trust. I would pair the it with the Twilight Nazgul, as it could fight decently and would have Gandalf to remove conditions. I would move the Unbound Rangers to Serie 3. You could either pair the UB Rangers with berserkers (in place of the Trust/Rohan) or with Southron and swap Shoulder to berserkers. And finally I would revamp the Serie 1 Rohan deck to DurinsHeir's suggested Valiant & Allies deck.

I agree that having 3 Gondor decks in Serie 2 is not appealing, despite the fact that they are all very different. The Serie 1 Rohan deck would be all Gandalf signets. The Serie 1 Hunters deck has Gandalf signets. The Serie 1 Dwarf deck has Gandalf. All 3 decks could couple very nicely with a Serie 2 Trust deck. It's possible it could be too popular due to these reasons.

It won't hurt my feelings if nobody is interested but I wanted to lend some support to DurinsHeir. I can't quite tell if it is too badly nerfed, but as DurinsHeir suggested, playtesting a couple games should tell you pretty quickly.

Here is my stab:

2x Gandalf The White Wizard
2x Legolas Prince of Mirkwood
1x Birchseed
1x Forest Guardian
1x Merry From O'er the Brandywine
1x Pippin Mr. Took
1x Barliman Butterbur
2x Hobbit Sword
1x Wizard Staff
1x Elven Sword
1x Good Work
1x Behold the White Rider
2x Trust Me As You Once Did
2x Boomed and Trumpeted
1x Severed His Bonds
2x Defiance
2x Intimidate
2x Mysterious Wizard
1x Sleep Caradhras
1x Task Was Not Done
1x Roll of Thunder
1x Wielder of the Flame

The point is to have many Gandalf tricks, choose what you like. This deck only provides 3 Gandalf signets, partly to make it less powerful but also because every Serie 1 deck has at least 1 Gandalf signet. Included a little bit of anti-Nazgul with PoM and Defiance, plus Good Work for some burden help so the deck can stand up to Twilight Nazgul.

I see where you're coming from, but in doing this it really would cripple Rohan's chance at having a good deck by Serie 3. With booster pulls alone, it's not going to cut the mustard with what is provided in the Valliant and Allies proposal.
Something that would be very good to see in this league is Rohan getting a shot at being strong, or even just competitive in Serie 3 for once. This almost never happens in any other sealed thus far.

If we did it this way would make a clear Fellowship choice path of choosing Three Hunters+Gandalf Ents+Shoulder to Shoulder.
This is what you would see everyone doing:
Frodo, TT or MU
Legolas, PoM
Gimli, UG
Aragorn, HoE
Gandalf, TWW
Haldir, EoTG
Dwarf Companion
Dwarf Allies
Elf Allies
Shoulder to Shoulder
TMAYOD
Each companion that can have a signet would be gandalf, Aragorn is defender +1, all companions twinked out with possessions
Easy healing with board-clearing skirmishing ability and potential for direct wounding.
Sure people might try something different, but if I was aiming to win, this would be the deck I choose every time.

By having Gandalf and Trust with Rohan, you are at least needed to make an investment in Rohan to get the benefits of it. I also think its important that we don't include a Legolas with the Gandalf signet in the starters just to broaden the meta a little bit.


What seems to be the main point to address is there being only Gondor to pick from in Serie 2.
This can be easily solved by swapping the Unbound Rangers with the Gandalf&Rohan. Keep the shadows where they are to prevent overlapping of the two corruption decks.

[Durin's Heir]

It won't hurt my feelings if nobody is interested but I wanted to lend some support to DurinsHeir.

Well, I'm not interested... just kidding. Really thanks! I was feeling lonely here in my island...

As much as some might not want to hear, I actually think there is some good rationale with what DurinsHeir is saying. I honestly think making a nerfed Trust fellowship available in Serie 2 makes a lot of sense. You could include a couple Ents (Unhasty ones), and a couple Gandalf signet folks, a few Wizard tricks, and 2 x Trust. I would pair the it with the Twilight Nazgul, as it could fight decently and would have Gandalf to remove conditions. I would move the Unbound Rangers to Serie 3. You could either pair the UB Rangers with berserkers (in place of the Trust/Rohan) or with Southron and swap Shoulder to berserkers. And finally I would revamp the Serie 1 Rohan deck to DurinsHeir's suggested Valiant & Allies deck.

I agree that having 3 Gondor decks in Serie 2 is not appealing, despite the fact that they are all very different. The Serie 1 Rohan deck would be all Gandalf signets. The Serie 1 Hunters deck has Gandalf signets. The Serie 1 Dwarf deck has Gandalf. All 3 decks could couple very nicely with a Serie 2 Trust deck. It's possible it could be too popular due to these reasons.

That way we kill 3 birds with a single stone: another option than Gondor at Serie 2, a Gandalf deck and some Gondorian coupling potential.
 

The flavor of having 2 Gondor decks at Serie 2, the Ithilien Rangers and the Osgiliath Knights, as separate options to choose looks very appealing ! And to leave UB Rangers at Serie 3 allows for some limited but decent coupling: can share Ranger tricks with Boromir in Knights deck, or with everyone in RB Rangers one; generic Gondorian stuff too: Athelas, Dagger Strike, Might of Numenor, Boromir's Gauntlets... And it would justify any loose end for the inclusion of THAT Boromir in particular in Knights deck (a much-needed coupling bridge between Rangers and Knights). And both decks with 1x Elendil's Valor would remain at the same Serie...

Besides, UB Rangers seem to be the most powerful Gondor draft at the moment, thus delaying them to Serie 3 looks wise. And that way we could implement an idea I threw some time ago about choking cards: to release choking mechanisms at 3rd Serie and not before, because in previous Series shadow decks can be too weak (or twilight dependant) to assault them with No Stranger to the Shadows, Bill the Pony, A Talent for Not Being Seen... even Meant To Be Alone.

You point out well when say the Gandalf deck can be too popular, so we must limit carefully it's coupling potential...

I can't quite tell if it is too badly nerfed, but as DurinsHeir suggested, playtesting a couple games should tell you pretty quickly.

Here is my stab:

2x Gandalf The White Wizard
2x Legolas Prince of Mirkwood
1x Birchseed
1x Forest Guardian
1x Merry From O'er the Brandywine
1x Pippin Mr. Took
1x Barliman Butterbur
2x Hobbit Sword
1x Wizard Staff
1x Elven Sword
1x Good Work
1x Behold the White Rider
2x Trust Me As You Once Did
2x Boomed and Trumpeted
1x Severed His Bonds
2x Defiance
2x Intimidate
2x Mysterious Wizard
1x Sleep Caradhras
1x Task Was Not Done
1x Roll of Thunder
1x Wielder of the Flame

The point is to have many Gandalf tricks, choose what you like. This deck only provides 3 Gandalf signets, partly to make it less powerful but also because every Serie 1 deck has at least 1 Gandalf signet. Included a little bit of anti-Nazgul with PoM and Defiance, plus Good Work for some burden help so the deck can stand up to Twilight Nazgul.

I like your version, that Legolas is a good addition and the Elven Sword can't be abused given those Unhasty Ents. The sword can ease the weight of the Elven Sword count to the S2S deck, and use that slot for a Naith Longbow instead...

I'm not the one who can say if it's badly nerfed. Experience will tell us...




Anyway, there are some points we need to consider when nerfing (or even building) an Ent deck:

Strength: they have good base strength, but only 2 pumps (Roused and Boomed and Trumpeted) and one "permanent" aid (Ent Moot)... If we exclude Host of Fangorn and Treebeard, each Ent will have only 8 base strength and pumps will be much needed; TMAYOD can exhaust Gandalf easily... I think we can exclude either Ent Moot or Treebeard, but not both (keep in mind Treebeard requires exerting an UB Hobbit to be assigned, that's very costly). Or add generic outsider pumps as The Terror of His Coming.

Minion killing/discarding ways: they have only 2 Damage bonus cards (Boomed and Trumpeted and Treebeard, Guardian of the Forest). And no minion discarding one. That may be aided with copies of Gandy's Task Was Not Done. And please no one mention overwhelming....

Wounds: they have great vitality, but no healing cards and many exertion requirements: Roused, Crack Into Rubble, Treebeard, Birchseed. And Unhasty circumventing exhasts UB Hobbits easily. Strength of Spirit can help.

Overpopullation: some cards require presence of many companions, with a clear risk of Shotgun Enquea. Boomed and Trumpeted, Roused, Ent Avenger, Crack Into Rubble, Host of Fangorn... Add Gandalf to the mix for TMAYOD and it's unlikely you will need less than 6 companions (3 Hobbits, a Wizard and... only one Ent?)...

So we need to nerf it without neglecting too much those weak points... Limiting Ent count to 3 or 4 max is an easy one.

[BigRedMF]

Without actually playing a league, the decks you would choose in your head aren't necessarily the best. If you go the path you mention you are not getting Sam or really any burden protection. With 2 dedicated corruption decks you could easily be overlooking the power of other fellowships. I would choose the Hobbit deck over the Shoulder deck. But again this is all speculation at this point. I think as we start combining decks we may reveal some issues with unstoppable fellowships.

[Durin's Heir]

I was thinking about the Shoulder to Shoulder deck, there are two different ideas by now...

Eukalyptus' Dwarves+Elves Draft:

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9003.msg87785.html#msg87785

Merrick's Shoulder to Shoulder Draft:

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9003.msg88325.html#msg88325

There's a different approach we could try...

'Lend Us Your Shoulders!' draft:

1x Fror, Gimli's Kinsman
1x Gimli, Unbidden Guest (starting)
2x Haldir, Emissary of the Galadhrim
1x Legolas, Archer of Mirkwood (starting)
1x Pengedhel, Naith Warrior
1x Thonnas, Naith Captain
1x Grimir, Dwarven Elder
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Golradir, Councilor of Imladris
1x Saelbeth, Elven Councilor
1x Dwarven Axe
1x Dwarven Bracers
1x Hand Axe
1x Elven Brooch
1x Elven Sword
2x Naith Longbow
2x Khazad Ai-menu
2x Lend Us Your Aid
2x Feathered
2x Valor
2x Endurance of Dwarves
2x Shoulder to Shoulder

Key Sites:
1 Plains of Rohan (over Eastemnet Gullies)
3 Barrows of Edoras
5 Helm's Gate
6 Hornburg Armory

This draft was build with a coupling perspective (Three Hunters, Gandwarves or mounted Rohan). And is more directed to the Naith Elves theme. 6 companions (2 Dwarves, 4 Elves) plus Frodo, 4 allies, Shoulder to Shoulder to share wounds and Legolas, AoM to heal them...

Characters: In the current deck, there is too little elven presence (2 redundant companions from Three Hunters) and too many dwarves. There is chance of very powerful pulls that would need to spot more elves: TINOH, The Seen and the Unseen, Naith Troop, Naith Warband, LIMW, Blades Drawn... Also, there is already a Dwarven deck but no Elven deck.

Farin was removed as he's of little help as Orc Shadows aren't many (Archery and Sauron Grind... Morgul Skulker in Twilight Nazgul). Fror is there just to give additional dwarven presence (in case Gimli gets killed), but I'd rather have Thrarin, SoE or Dwarven Warrior, as he will be pretty useless most of the time. Outsider cards count is an issue, I know... Maybe I'll replace Fror with Naith Troop.

Companion count is 1x for each, except Haldir. Those versions of Gimli and Legolas are found in Three Hunters and Gandwarves (2x), are the obvious starting companions and StS can clean their wounds, so more copies wouldn't be much useful really... And Gimli has 2x Endurance of Dwarves here and a Dwarven Bracers to prevent his death...

If you happen to start first, Plains of Rohan is better than Eastemnet Gullies in order to get a fresh Gimli and start a heavy elven fighter besides Legolas (Thonnas or Pengedhel, as they need to spot an elf).

Gimli is meant to be a heavy support character instead of a tank fighter. With a max of 5 vitality and both Legolas and StS to clean those wounds from him, he can prevent key losses or overwhelmings with a moderate cost, and keep Legolas winning most of his skirimishes...

Conditions and Healing: 2x Shoulder to Shoulder and 2x Endurance of Dwarves. Explained above. S2S only moves wounds but can't remove them in absence of ally-healing (here a pull of Elrond, LoR or Galadriel, LoL can change the course), so Legolas is the only real healing card.

Possessions: 2x Naith Longbow instead of more Elven Swords, makes a really good synergy with Thonnas and Pengedhel, and those elves discourage the wide use of pulled Elven Bows (permanent fellowship archery can be too powerful in a Sealed, we ditched that theme for a reason) turning them instead into tank skirimishers. Plus, the Three Hunters deck has 2x Elven Sword, thus adding more copies of it is redundant (therefore almost useless) from a coupling perspective...

Dwarven items are 1x of each for Gimli only. There's an Elven Brooch, this is likely only a whim, but might be very useful with Gimli: Hand Axe or Dwarven Bracers (or a lucky pull of Gimli's Helm). Athelas too from the Three Hunters deck. And Hobbit Sword protection is another option...

Pumps: Khazad Ai-Menu is better here than Axe Strike as Merrick pointed out. Lend Us Your Aid is the main pump here. That's the main reason to keep those Endurance of Dwarves inside the draft (and a good one for Grimir). Maybe a little OP, as Thonnas or Pengedhel with a bow and one LUYA would be a 12 strength elf... likely will be reduced to 1.

2x Feathered can be awesome if these elves are coupled with Rohan (Mounted Elves). 2x Valor is just the standard.


That's all. A merged deck of Naith Elves with Shoulder to Shoulder, with coupling potential. Please comment, folks! If you burn it, at least it will glow nicely!

[Merrick_H]

I don't think that Elven Brooch works the way you think it does for precisely the reason that you wanted to put it in there...

ELVEN BROOCH
4 U 63
Clarification:
To play, spot an Elf. Bearer must be a companion.
Response: If another possession borne by bearer is about to be discarded by a Shadow card, discard this possession instead

I like this version of the deck.  It does give more different companions and has decent coupling potential with all of the decks from series 1 and opens up the use of more cards that could be pulled from the boosters.

I would make the following changes - some that you recommended.

'Lend Us Your Shoulders!' draft:

1x Fror, Gimli's Kinsman
1x Gimli, Unbidden Guest (starting)
2x Haldir, Emissary of the Galadhrim
1x Legolas, Archer of Mirkwood (starting)
1x Pengedhel, Naith Warrior
1x Thonnas, Naith Captain
1x Grimir, Dwarven Elder
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Dinedal, Silent Scout (+1)
1x Golradir, Councilor of Imladris
1x Saelbeth, Elven Councilor
1x Dwarven Axe
1x Dwarven Bracers
1x Hand Axe
1x Elven Brooch (-1)
1x Elven Sword
2x Naith Longbow
2x Khazad Ai-menu
1x Lend Us Your Aid (-1)
2x Feathered
2x Valor
2x Endurance of Dwarves
2x Shoulder to Shoulder

I like the fact that this forces you to choose between the two Thrarins if you go with the Gandwarf deck.  Adding the extra ally gives a little versatility in what you can do with the vitality while giving more vitality for shuffling wounds around. I also dropped elven brooch as it doesn't do what you were wanting it to.

2x Lend Us Your Aid is too powerful, I might drop it to 0 as we are not dealing with overly strong minions here like in King block (no Siege Troop, Great Hill Troll etc.)  This leaves room for 2 more cards.  What would you think of adding 2x support of the last homely house?  It means you would have to use the elves' vitality wisely but could make for an interesting draft card.

[dmaz]

Yeah, this looks pretty cool. I initially dropped Lend us Your Aid from my deck list since it seemed really overpowered, but it's definitely worth testing

[Durin's Heir]

Haha, nice clarification! Oh well, too good to be true...

Dinendal, Silent Scout is a great addition, he/she can stay. "It" removes twilight for swifter double moves, and expands the wound token circus. So that leaves 2 free slots.

If we include this deck in Serie 2 instead of UB Rangers, it would be extremely powerful with that huge Gimli boosting everyone in need... And Lend Us Your Aid isn't really necessary as most decks won't have huge minions (Nazgul are to sole exception I can think of), so we can ditch all copies of LUYA and maybe let only 1x Endurance of Dwarves... AND that way include this Naith Elven Army in Serie 2, instead of UB Rangers...

Just look at this scenario: Serie 2, choose to aid Faramir's Rangers in their errand into Ithilien Forest, help Knights of Osgiliath to recover and defend their long lost ruined capitol, or join an Elven Army and stand firm at Helm's Gate... EPIC.

4 free slots...

I think this deck has very good coupling potential with Three Hunters and Rohan, but has little to offer to a pure Dwarven deck theme (however, with Gandwarves might couple into an amazing Elf/Dwarf deck). So in my opinion, those slots should be used to strengthen Dwarves...

2x Stout and Strong agrees with the spirit of this deck. And 2x Still Draws Breath as they will need more wound removing than only Legolas, in order to keep the wound moving machine working...
Those seem great additions to a pure Dwarven (or Gandwarves) deck. None of them is overpowered...

Lend Us Your Shoulders! without LUYA... we need to change that name.

1x Fror, Gimli's Kinsman
1x Gimli, Unbidden Guest (starting)
2x Haldir, Emissary of the Galadhrim
1x Legolas, Archer of Mirkwood (starting)
1x Pengedhel, Naith Warrior
1x Thonnas, Naith Captain
1x Grimir, Dwarven Elder
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Dinendal, Silent Scout
1x Golradir, Councilor of Imladris
1x Saelbeth, Elven Councilor
1x Dwarven Axe
1x Dwarven Bracers
1x Hand Axe
1x Elven Sword
2x Naith Longbow
2x Khazad Ai-menu
2x Still Draws Breath (+2)
2x Feathered
2x Valor
2x Stout and Strong (+2)
2x Shoulder to Shoulder

-2x Lend Us Your Aid
-2x Endurance of Dwarves

[Durin's Heir]

I'm fine with Rohan taking 2 separate series to get built up to the deck that you show there. That is one reason why they are in series 1 and series 3...

Again, I don't want there to be a Gandalf toolbox deck.  I want people to have to chose to take Gandalf because they have awesome cards for him rather than because there are awesome Gandalf cards in the deck.... Gandalf + tools makes a no brainer situation because he is ultimately splashable in ANY deck that you want to put him in.  He is a 4/7/4 companion that can skirmish and has capabilities that when used correctly really give an edge to your deck.

Again - I don't want to give people those capabilities.  I'd like to see people design their deck around the cards they get and if it makes sense to pick up Gandalf in a starter because you got some awesome support for him, great!

If you design an Ent Deck, you would realistically have to put it in series 3 because that is where most of the support comes up.  By that point people would have a pretty wide range of cards and strategies.  I don't want someone to pick up a Gandalf deck just because it gives them Gandalf + toolbox.  Realistically, you can drop gandalf to a 6-7 card toolbox that will hose most people.

2x gandalf
1-2x Trust Me as You Once Did
1x Barliman Butterbur PP
1x Have Patience
1x Sleep Caradhras OR GST

We are darn close to that in the current Gandwarf deck, which is why I'm on the fence about recommending that we cut Barliman.  That way if you want Trust Me as You Once Did, you have to go Gandwarf/Rohan series 3.

Hmmm...  

Let's start from the Gandalf pack we have in the Rohan & Gandalf deck. That is: 2x Gandalf, 2x TMAYOD, 2x Have Patience and a Wizard Staff... Let's not depart too much from that Gandalf Kit while making a non-OP Ents deck...

Actually that Gandy Kit is almost the same as the one you describe above, except for Sleep Caradhras/Grown Suddenly Tall... Condition sweeping is a thorny issue, so let's pull that off. 2x Have Patience is abusive in any deck (much more in a self-healing Rohan one), so let's trim it to 1x (not zero as Ents will need one healing card at least). Roll of Thunder is another big tool, and Barliman bringing back things... let's remove that too.

So we have the next cards as a base for Gandhi & the Tree Shepherds:

Frodo, Mr. Underhill or Tired Traveller

2x Gandalf, The White Wizard
1x Merry; Horticulturalist (the third Gandalf signet)
1x Pippin, Woolly-Footed Rascal or Mr. Took
1x Wizard Staff
0x Hobbit Sword (as 4x are provided in Series 1 and 2)
1x Have Patience
2x Trust Me As You Once Did

8 cards... that leaves 22 card slots for Ents and Gandalf/UB Hobbit tricks... If you think that's a lot, think it again.


1. Ents: Birchseed may be a good starting with Merry, or both hobbits with Quickbeam. 2 Ents, we need another two. Host of Fangorn is out. Hmmm... we may use Treebeard or Ent Moot, but not both. Treebeard , as Ent Moot would boost other Ents from 8 to 10 strength which could be excessive, and they will need the Damage bonus mechanism; he can only exert an UB hobbit to be assigned, don't overlook his cost. And a sole Ent Avenger. Thus we have 4 Ents, half of them Unhasty.

As for the tricks, they have 2 pumps: Roused adds , exerts and requires to spot many Ents, while Boomed and Trumpeted adds less strength but some damage bonus, with a risk of Shotgun Enquea. Besides pumps, Ents only have Crack Into Rubble and Ent Moot, the first can cover the condition discarding in absence of those Wizard sweeping tricks (for a very high price). A really strong point of Crack Into Rubble is it cannot be exported with Gandalf to other cultures (unlike Deep in Thought or Sleep Caradhras), but with 2 or more Ents...

(10 cards)
2x Birchseed
1x Ent Avenger
1x Quickbeam, Bregalad
2x Treebeard, Guardian of the Forest
2x Boomed and Trumpeted
2x Crack Into Rubble


2. Unbound Hobbits: Unhasty Ents depend much more on hobbits than non-Unhasty ones, so there must be some strong skirimish support. Hobbit Intuition and Long Slow Wrath might give them good chances to win some fights. Stout and Sturdy as this deck can exhaust hobbits easily (and the opponent will increase those exertions, or harvest them with I'd Make You Squeak or Twilight Enquea). Kept Safe to prevent wounds or being killed. Good Work for some burden removal. There and Back Again is always a nice addition...

(9 cards)
2x Hobbit Intuition
2x Long Slow Wrath
2x Stout and Sturdy
1x Kept Safe
1x Good Work
1x There and Back Again


3. Gandalf: So after brainstorming the Ent and Hobbit part, we can finally fulfil the last part of the deck choosing good-old Wizard tricks for the remaining... 3 card slots!? Mysterious Wizard, Strength of Spirit and Wielder of the Flame are my selection... Please note that Wielder of the Flame neglects The White Wizard's text.

(3 cards)
1x Mysterious Wizard
1x Strength of Spirit
1x Wielder of the Flame

Well, that's all. Nothing to fear, only 4 Wizard tricks (Have Patience and those 3), besides a Staff and 2x TMAYOD...

This version is aimed towards Ents fighting/killing and hobbits surviving. 5 Hobbit pumps but only 3 usable by Frodo. And some Gandalf support, almost the same a Rohan & Gandalf deck would have...

Gandhi & the Tree Shepherds deck draft:

Ringbearer: Frodo, Mr. Underhill

(30 cards)
2x Birchseed
1x Ent Avenger
2x Gandalf, The White Wizard
1x Quickbeam, Bregalad (starting)
2x Treebeard, Guardian of the Forest
1x Merry; Horticulturalist (starting)
1x Pippin, Mr. Took (starting)
1x Wizard Staff
2x Boomed and Trumpeted
2x Crack Into Rubble
1x Have Patience
1x Mysterious Wizard
1x Strength of Spirit
1x Wielder of the Flame
2x Hobbit Intuition
2x Long Slow Wrath
2x Stout and Sturdy
2x Trust Me As You Once Did
1x Kept Safe
1x Good Work
1x There and Back Again

4 Ents but 2 Unhasty ones. 2 UB Hobbits and the Wizard. With TMAYOD and 3 spells for the Wizard.

The main difference between this draft and the previous ones is this one uses more deck slots for hobbit survival and ent tricks: 2x Stout and Sturdy, 2x Hobbit Intuition, 2x Long Slow Wrath, 2x Boomed and Trumpeted, 2x Crack Into Rubble... Thus, leaving little space to Gandalf's ancient sorcery. Nothing to worry about.

[dmaz]

Gandhi & the Tree Shepherds deck draft:

Ringbearer: Frodo, Mr. Underhill

(30 cards)
2x Birchseed
1x Ent Avenger
2x Gandalf, The White Wizard
1x Quickbeam, Bregalad (starting)
2x Treebeard, Guardian of the Forest
1x Merry; Horticulturalist (starting)
1x Pippin, Mr. Took (starting)
1x Wizard Staff
2x Boomed and Trumpeted
2x Crack Into Rubble
1x Have Patience
1x Mysterious Wizard
1x Strength of Spirit
1x Wielder of the Flame
2x Hobbit Intuition
2x Long Slow Wrath
2x Stout and Sturdy
2x Trust Me As You Once Did
1x Kept Safe
1x Good Work
1x There and Back Again

4 Ents but 2 Unhasty ones. 2 UB Hobbits and the Wizard. With TMAYOD and 3 spells for the Wizard.

The main difference between this draft and the previous ones is this one uses more deck slots for hobbit survival and ent tricks: 2x Stout and Sturdy, 2x Hobbit Intuition, 2x Long Slow Wrath, 2x Boomed and Trumpeted, 2x Crack Into Rubble... Thus, leaving little space to Gandalf's ancient sorcery. Nothing to worry about.

As fun as it appears...and honestly it really does look like a fun deck to play, it would be like a serie 3 TT sealed ent deck on crack. With TMAYOD the Ents would almost never lose skirmishes, and Treebeard would clear the board every turn with his ability for easy double moves. This is pretty much why TT Sealed is really lame after Serie 2.

Even if someone tried to use Southron Commanders, TMAYOD would nullify them as well.
What you would  see happen:
They would drop:
Crack into Rubble
Mysterious Wizard
Strength of Spirit
Wielder of the Flame
Long Slow Wrath
Stout and Sturdy
Kept Safe
Good Work

For:
A stack of Severed His Bonds to pass the early sites easy while they get set up
Sam from Serie 2 to take the ring if Frodo gets into burden trouble
Extra Have Patience from Serie 1

Then its TT Sealed all over again...but really worse as Frodo can take on big Easterlings easily to deter their ability because of TMAYOD.

If someone is lucky enough to pull a stack of great Ents from the boosters that's fine, but I'd rather not repeat a mistake that Decipher already made :/

[Merrick_H]

Just some thoughts:  I think the game will be significantly different in Series 2/3 than Towers Sealed.  Many of the wins right now in Towers Sealed come from overwhelming Frodo with 2-3 6-strength minions.  The only direct Frodo protection in Towers block comes in the form of:

Severed His Bonds
Hobbit Sword
Sam (Only if you get lucky in a booster)

We are adding a significant amount of Frodo protection in the form of:
Hobbit Intuition
Bounder
Trust Me As You Once Did

This is going to be an environment where games go to 9 and are won or lost by whether or not you have been able to heal wounds or get stops along the way rather than if you can set up a killer swarm hand.

With that in mind, I'd like to generally see the shadows be a bit stronger than the fellowships.  I think we struck a good balance with the archery and sauron tracker shadows.  I think that Rohan is likely to be a bit strong vs. any skirmishing shadow because of their damage bonuses and exertions from horses, but we'll have to see.

I think we have a good mix of decks right now without having much overlap from either Towers Sealed or Fellowship Sealed.  We need to finalize the decks that are in each series and start testing the inter-series interactions.  This means no ents or other consolidation and we work with the decks that we have while adjusting the Fellowship/Shadow pairings appropriately.  This is the only way we will know if we have achieved a good balance.

[dmaz]

Just some thoughts:  I think the game will be significantly different in Series 2/3 than Towers Sealed.  Many of the wins right now in Towers Sealed come from overwhelming Frodo with 2-3 6-strength minions.  The only direct Frodo protection in Towers block comes in the form of:

Severed His Bonds
Hobbit Sword
Sam (Only if you get lucky in a booster)

We are adding a significant amount of Frodo protection in the form of:
Hobbit Intuition
Bounder
Trust Me As You Once Did

This is going to be an environment where games go to 9 and are won or lost by whether or not you have been able to heal wounds or get stops along the way rather than if you can set up a killer swarm hand.

With that in mind, I'd like to generally see the shadows be a bit stronger than the fellowships.  I think we struck a good balance with the archery and sauron tracker shadows.  I think that Rohan is likely to be a bit strong vs. any skirmishing shadow because of their damage bonuses and exertions from horses, but we'll have to see.

I think we have a good mix of decks right now without having much overlap from either Towers Sealed or Fellowship Sealed.  We need to finalize the decks that are in each series and start testing the inter-series interactions.  This means no ents or other consolidation and we work with the decks that we have while adjusting the Fellowship/Shadow pairings appropriately.  This is the only way we will know if we have achieved a good balance.

I agree. I will be around, testing some of the Serie 2/3 decks, if anyone is available. Starting next week I think I'll be reading for combining cards from all three serie.

Like you said, I think our goal can be to locate and define any big insufficiency pertaining to any shadow, like we noticed with the lack of crowd control for the Archery deck.

[Durin's Heir]

As fun as it appears...and honestly it really does look like a fun deck to play, it would be like a serie 3 TT sealed ent deck on crack. With TMAYOD the Ents would almost never lose skirmishes, and Treebeard would clear the board every turn with his ability for easy double moves. This is pretty much why TT Sealed is really lame after Serie 2.

Even if someone tried to use Southron Commanders, TMAYOD would nullify them as well.
What you would  see happen:
They would drop:
Crack into Rubble
Mysterious Wizard
Strength of Spirit
Wielder of the Flame
Long Slow Wrath
Stout and Sturdy
Kept Safe
Good Work

For:
A stack of Severed His Bonds to pass the early sites easy while they get set up
Sam from Serie 2 to take the ring if Frodo gets into burden trouble
Extra Have Patience from Serie 1

Then its TT Sealed all over again...but really worse as Frodo can take on big Easterlings easily to deter their ability because of TMAYOD.

If someone is lucky enough to pull a stack of great Ents from the boosters that's fine, but I'd rather not repeat a mistake that Decipher already made :/

Southron Commander... you are thinking inside the Towers Sealed box again. This is Revised Towers Standard: it has Shotgun Enquea and Easterling Pillager, maybe Nertea, MoDG or Greed from booster pulls. Shotgun Enquea can kill Gandalf or exerted UB Hobbits, and Ents sink easily after that.

Treebeard won't clear the board every turn... you are mistaking him for a 9 str, dmg+2 Rohirrim. Imagine the next scenario: 3 Uruks of 9 strength and 2 vitality each. Treebeard beats one (by exerting a hobbit), Gandalf can take other if spots , Quickbeam can fight the remaining if TMAYOD pumps him. Treebeard must exert twice in order to kill 2 Uruks, and the 3rd will pursue them if they attempt to double. At the end you got 4 exertions (2 on Treebeard, 1 on Merry of Pippin and the other on Gandy) if they happen to win, otherwise is even worse. While Rohirrim would need only pumps to clear the board (Hlafwine, Leod, TMAYOD or events)... and would heal easily every wound/exertion next turn (Weland, Guma, Well Stored).

Against Isen Orcs is even worse, as they have 3 vitality...

Clearily you haven't played that Treebeard enough to reach any serious conclusion. He gets exhausted quickly. He isn't a 10 strength dmg+2 Thrarin, SoE, nor a 10 strength dmg+3 Eomer (horse, javelin and Eomer's Spear)...

This deck just can't behave as the FP of Witch King's starter: Unhasty keyword is a heavy load that deck doesn't carry; there won't be Ent Moot to boost generic Ents to 10 strength. We just can't repeat that "mistake" by no possible means (and I really doubt they designed decks thinking about sealed gameplay)...

There's a Two Towers thread about the Ent Starter... they talk about non-Unhasty 10 str fellows winning without any drawback... Ent Moot is mentioned. Take a look and compare.

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9047.0.html

[dmaz]

Southron Commander... you are thinking inside the Towers Sealed box again. This is Revised Towers Standard: it has Shotgun Enquea and Easterling Pillager, maybe Nertea, MoDG or Greed from booster pulls. Shotgun Enquea can kill Gandalf or exerted UB Hobbits, and Ents sink easily after that.

Treebeard won't clear the board every turn... you are mistaking him for a 9 str, dmg+2 Rohirrim. Imagine the next scenario: 3 Uruks of 9 strength and 2 vitality each. Treebeard beats one (by exerting a hobbit), Gandalf can take other if spots , Quickbeam can fight the remaining if TMAYOD pumps him. Treebeard must exert twice in order to kill 2 Uruks, and the 3rd will pursue them if they attempt to double. At the end you got 4 exertions (2 on Treebeard, 1 on Merry of Pippin and the other on Gandy) if they happen to win, otherwise is even worse. While Rohirrim would need only pumps to clear the board (Hlafwine, Leod, TMAYOD or events)... and would heal easily every wound/exertion next turn (Weland, Guma, Well Stored).

Against Isen Orcs is even worse, as they have 3 vitality...

Clearily you haven't played that Treebeard enough to reach any serious conclusion. He gets exhausted quickly. He isn't a 10 strength dmg+2 Thrarin, SoE, nor a 10 strength dmg+3 Eomer (horse, javelin and Eomer's Spear)...

This deck just can't behave as the FP of Witch King's starter: Unhasty keyword is a heavy load that deck doesn't carry; there won't be Ent Moot to boost generic Ents to 10 strength. We just can't repeat that "mistake" by no possible means (and I really doubt they designed decks thinking about sealed gameplay)...

There's a Two Towers thread about the Ent Starter... they talk about non-Unhasty 10 str fellows winning without any drawback... Ent Moot is mentioned. Take a look and compare.

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9047.0.html

I certainly agree that without Ent Moot it's not as devastating, but they can't be so readily compared to Rohirrim.

What is accomplished with 1 card for ents (the companion itself), you need combinations of cards for Rohan companions. Since we aren't using Elite Riders (would be too strong), the typical household guard compared to an ent needs a possession to reach the strength level, and then a mount to get any damage bonuses.

Ents are already big when they hit the table, and since they don't need possesions, this leaves tons of room for more pumps and utility cards, making them even more able to clear the board and double. Boomed and Trumpeted is devastating as well.

And since we're not giving complete open access to Enquea for everyone, it would depend on your deck choices and that randomness of booster pulls. Thus the southron deck with cards like southron commander and far-harad mercenaries, who are put there to pack some kind of punch are actually rendered useless.

I do agree that because of Unhasty, they are definitely a little more limited. I'm not entirely against testing out the deck, but Gandalf would have to be dropped, no question.

[Durin's Heir]

I certainly agree that without Ent Moot it's not as devastating, but they can't be so readily compared to Rohirrim.

What is accomplished with 1 card for ents (the companion itself), you need combinations of cards for Rohan companions. Since we aren't using Elite Riders (would be too strong), the typical household guard compared to an ent needs a possession to reach the strength level, and then a mount to get any damage bonuses.

Ents are already big when they hit the table, and since they don't need possesions, this leaves tons of room for more pumps and utility cards, making them even more able to clear the board and double. Boomed and Trumpeted is devastating as well.

Rohirrim have their own Boomed and Trumpeted: Work for the Sword. And it's actually better as doesn't need 2 companion slots wasted with useless fighters. But we don't see it often because they don't need it, they already have damage bonus when mounted (+1, or +2 if bearing a Spear)...

Ents are strong but won't clear the board unless they either overwhelm or get damage bonuses. The first case just won't happen, and the latter happens only if you play a certain pump (Boomed, and those UB Hobbits really waste that companion space) or exert Treebeard, which will exhaust him soon. Rohirrim and Dwarves can sweep the table with their permanent damage bonus, which Ents just don't have. Ents neither have ally support, Leod and Hlafwine can pump and heal themselves just by sitting there (if you have Well Stored or Eomer, SSoT). Or heal a mounted Gandalf to abuse TMAYOD with Weland (and Guma healing Weland)...

I know Rohirrim must wait until possessions come, but in the meanwhile they have lots of events, allies and conditions (TMAYOD; We Left None Alive would be a killer common pull) to allow them to survive or even win skirimishes; Ents have only 2 pumps, and aren't really compatible as you risk too much by spotting 4 Ents AND 2 UB Hobbits. After that assembling period, only the Witch King can survive them often.

And since we're not giving complete open access to Enquea for everyone, it would depend on your deck choices and that randomness of booster pulls. Thus the southron deck with cards like southron commander and far-harad mercenaries, who are put there to pack some kind of punch are actually rendered useless.

I do agree that because of Unhasty, they are definitely a little more limited. I'm not entirely against testing out the deck, but Gandalf would have to be dropped, no question.

Unhasty doesn't limit a little but a lot, just think about Uruk Trackers (or any shadow that skirimishes twice). Those exertions will turn I'd Make You Squeak and Under the Watching Eye into killer cards; any grind shadow as Sauron, Uruk/Goblin Archery or Southrons will feast with Unhasty keyword, Treebeard's ability and TMAYOD. Ents just can't heal, only Gandalf can help with that but much less than what Weland and Guma would do.

I've been saying it indirectly but will be clear now: Rohan is by itself the strongest Free Peoples here, far over Dwarves, Elves or Gondor, or even Ents. And giving TMAYOD to them would be even more powerful than giving it to any other culture due to their healing abuse (Weland, Guma and Well Stored to remove 2 wounds per turn from Gandalf). And they have their own allies for the same purpose: Leod and Hlafwine.

I'm not saying we shouldn't include the Gandalf+TMAYOD pack in this sealed, but we should include non-OP Ents instead of a redundant Rohan fellowship along with Gandy.

[dmaz]

I've been saying it indirectly but will be clear now: Rohan is by itself the strongest Free Peoples here, far over Dwarves, Elves or Gondor, or even Ents.

Exactly. This has been one of our intentions from the start. It was noted that in the past that Rohan has never had a chance to really shine in sealed. In every sealed event they maybe get a little bit of a debut in serie 1 or 2...but even with great booster pulls they still fall short of other stronger FP decks. What we are doing here is giving them a chance.

I would not go so far as to say that they are much stronger than Gondor or Ents (if they were used). Knights have proven to be crazy strong and Ringbound men don't have to really worry about corruption. The Rohan FP is very strong in skirmishing and moving. We want it to be that way. But if you go full on Rohan, you will struggle with burden control. It's not an overpowered war tank, and we've seen it win just as much as lose in testing so far