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Author Topic: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game  (Read 266544 times)

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December 27, 2014, 01:15:18 PM
Reply #15

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2014, 01:15:18 PM »
As for the template, it looks too golden. That's great with The Master's greed, but with the rest it should be darker. You might leave the Master as it is, but try to normalize the color of the twilight circle to give it a more realistic look. Even the grey twilight circle of the Gondor template might look great, though I'd prefer something brown, more as wood.

Try to make the template look less bright and lightful; somewhat gloomy. And a wood-like brown circle for the twilight, evoking the wooden houses and boats.

I posted "pale orange", and then realizad it was totally wrong. "Dim orange" would be much better.

I will keep a site 1 in the Site pack. I need 8 different sites for 8 different number. The site 8, as the site 5 in FOTR, seems untouchable. I want general abilities for most of them, so they will be very attractive.

I'm not sure starting the Shadow archery at 4 companions is a good idea, Anduin Banks is at the end of the site path not Goblin's Cavern. If there isn't many companions, the site 5 could be really hard.

That's ok. So the sites to add are Sites 1 and 2, and there is already a good Site 1 if you don't want to change it. Which leaves Site 2 to be defined... Homework!

About the Cavern, there's still no archery Shadow so 2 or 4 arrows in the whole game shouldn't cause too much effect. Moreover if 3 of 4 versions of Gandalf will take the arrows at 4 and get discarded at 5. Try to give a chance to Front Porch or Wooded Steep Cliff...


For Treasure, it depends on a good Artifact blank template :(.

I change in the previous post the cards with your ideas, except for the Great Barricade I change a bit.

It's a shame there is no high definition artifact templates...
I like the change to the Great Barricade, even being so different to those 2 previous versions.

- 2x • Great Barricade : Cost (2). Dwarven Possession • Support Area. Fortification. To play, exert a Dwarven companion. At sites 7 and 8, each minion skirmishing a Dwarf character is strength -2.

Anyway, it should be "skirmishing a Dwarf companion" instead of a Dwarf character, as the Dwarf allies were outside the barricade. And I'd add that fellowship special ability to discard a fortification to just draw a card. More for the flavor of destroying the barricade and running towards the enemy, than for the awesome usefulness of... drawing a card.

Great Barricade can reduce Smaug's strength from 17 to 15, so probably there will be some strength-adding tricks for him in his 10-cards part in the Beatdown Pack. Something like this:

•Smaug's Wealth
Possession • Support Area
Treasure. While you can spot X treasures and Smaug's vitality is X or more, Smaug is strength +X.
If Smaug gets killed, the Free Peoples player may play a [Dwarven] possession from his or her draw deck.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 08:19:59 PM by Durin's Heir »
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December 27, 2014, 01:48:02 PM
Reply #16

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2014, 01:48:02 PM »
I know this will sound crazy, but what if each Pack has 1x a site made to match the theme?

Archery shadows would have a site to help the archery, like Great Goblin's Cavern or an adapted copy of Brown Lands. And Warg minions would have the Wooded Steep Cliff. Thráin Pack something like a Site 7 Entrance of Erebor...

It's a crazy idea, I know. Will have to pass through refinement to be useful.

EDIT: For each 2 players, there are 2 random chosen Packs: 1 for FP (10 cards) and 1 for Shadow (40 cards). For each 2 players, the total drafted cards is 78. It may be rounded to 80 by including one fixed Site card per Pack...
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 10:02:50 AM by Durin's Heir »
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December 28, 2014, 01:27:59 AM
Reply #17

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Re: First Extension set of the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2014, 01:27:59 AM »
I think I will let the Dale template with the initial template, it's simpler and much more bright and lightful.

The Great Cavern is also useful for the next Shadow archery. The site 4 must benefit more to the Beatdown Shadows (Trolls and Wargs) than the Swarm Shadows, the site 4 is often the first real Swarm site (for Moria minions).

I need a total number of cards divisible by 6 (2 players and 3 boosters each). I think I will let like this unless you have another proposition ?

I upload all the next updates on the first post ^^.
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December 28, 2014, 06:13:52 AM
Reply #18

Cw0rk

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Re: First Extension set of the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2014, 06:13:52 AM »
I also prefer Dale template to be Purple like Gondor. The Golden one is too similar to Wizard. Another option would be to make it Silver color.

December 28, 2014, 08:08:35 AM
Reply #19

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2014, 08:08:35 AM »
I think I will let the Dale template with the initial template, it's simpler and much more bright and lightful.
I also prefer Dale template to be Purple like Gondor. The Golden one is too similar to Wizard. Another option would be to make it Silver color.

Watching again the DoS film, Cw0rk's idea is well-aimed IMO. The Lake-town looks somewhat like silver light during the day, a blurry middle point between light blue and grey. Silver gets close. Actually that would be close to the Gondor template, but it would be better it it were a bit darker, bluer and blurrier.

Anyway, I'd love to see a small bit of golden in The Master, the twilight circle preferably. Only in his card, to reflect his greed for gold and his non-selfless intentions.


The Great Cavern is also useful for the next Shadow archery. The site 4 must benefit more to the Beatdown Shadows (Trolls and Wargs) than the Swarm Shadows, the site 4 is often the first real Swarm site (for Moria minions).

I don't think 2 or 4 wounds will help too much a Beatdown shadow if the FP player chooses who will get them. Most of the times will be Gandalf, who will be discarded, and Bilbo if there's a remainder. But I agree with the goal of helping a Beatdown shadow.

Trolls are unique, and Wargriders need mounts.

Site 4: Wooded Steep Cliff
Shadow Number 3
Mountain. Forest. Each unique or mounted minion is strength +2 and twilight cost -1.

Azog would be strength 11 and twilight cost [3], trolls would be stregth 13 and cost [4]. Non-unique mounted minions would get only +2 strength. Even Gollum and The Great Goblin would be boosted.


I need a total number of cards divisible by 6 (2 players and 3 boosters each). I think I will let like this unless you have another proposition ?

You want to make the total drafted cards be a multiple of 6, to leave no remainig card after each player has drafted his/her 3 boosters. But if there are 2 random boosters per each 2 players, and each booster has 1 site card as addition, then there would be 1 remaining card per player after 3 boosters are drafted.

That's easy to solve: after 3 boosters are drafted, with a random choice a player is set as first and then he/she draws a card. Then the rest do the same, clockwise. 0 cards will remain. That procedure would take a very small amount of time, something like 10 or 15 seconds.

The random choice may be as simple as revealing a random drafted card per player and comparing twilight costs.



We still have to define the text of Site 2 in the Main Deck. And Main Deck sites should be more friendly to the FP side.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 10:02:32 AM by Durin's Heir »
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December 29, 2014, 01:15:52 AM
Reply #20

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Re: First Extension set of the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2014, 01:15:52 AM »
I tried this template from the Rohan template. I have the Gondor template in High-def, but not the Rohan template, the quality is worse.




I'm not a big fan of a random distribution at the end of the draft, I prefer the quantities from the current Booster deck.


The site 2 in the main deck will be the same as now, only the title will change. I will see if I change the site 4.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 01:35:11 AM by -Enola- »
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January 02, 2015, 09:49:25 AM
Reply #21

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2015, 09:49:25 AM »
I don't like the Rohan template for the Dale culture. Though they are relatives to the Dale men, Rohan's culture is too distinctive in each possible aspect, and orbits around horses and war instead of around the civil life.

The Gondor one is much closer. If I had a tad of experience and knowledge about photoshop, I'd make the Gondor template a bit bluer and grayer. But as it is, is the best option and not really too far.

But thinking a bit more, if you cut from the Rohan template the title bar, subtitle bar and the middle one in which goes the card type, and paste those in the Gondor template, it might be quite closer to what I mean above.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 10:02:09 AM by Durin's Heir »
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January 02, 2015, 04:12:04 PM
Reply #22

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2015, 04:12:04 PM »
In respect of the update of the First Post:

In the main deck : Site 2: Trollshaw Forest -> Troll's Cave
The booster deck site should be something like this, to power up the Shadow:
Site 2
Shadow Number: 3
Forest. Shadow: Play a Troll whose site number is 2 from your draw deck.

Such a site should never be in the main deck as is meant to reinforce the Shadow only; I'd leave the other site in the main deck as it helps the FP side and may be used too by both Swarm Pack (Goblins) and Beatdown Pack (Trolls).

You will still need to have an Orc to discard to fulfill the Troll's intrinsic requirement. But if the FP player gives enough twilight and the Shadow player has 3 Orcs in hand, then Tom, Bert and William can join the party from the start. "Trollshaw Forest" is a better name for this one I'm proposing, as that's the place where the Company found the Trolls... hmmm, where the Trolls found the Company actually; "Troll's Cave" is where they found the swords and gold.

These cards will be artifacts:
- Orcrist
- Sting
- Glamdring
- The One Ring
Does that mean you did find some templates for Artifacts? Glamdring and Sting should have always been artifacts in LOTR TCG. Great!

If you didn't find any High-Def templates, then you might try some wild idea like this one: erase good part of the normal template and use most part of the card for the picture alone, as Smaug or the One Ring in LOTR TCG. Just keep the attributes (and bonuses), the middle bar, the culture symbol and maybe the twilight circle/diamond. You can preserve those perpendicular bars that branch out from that culture symbol but make them disappear at the middle. If I had some experience with Photoshop, I'd make them by myself...

- 2x • Ring of Thror : Cost 0. Dwarven Artifact • Ring. Strength +1. Vitality +1. Bearer must be Thorin. Maneuver: Take a Dwarven event into hand from your discard pile. Discard this artifact.
Bravo! That Ring was actually the Ring of Fury... Might be titled/subtitled "Ring of Fury, Thrór's Ring" or "Ring of Thrór, the Ring of Fury"...

Good text anyway. Balin can recycle it (epicness)! Every Dwarf companion you made is actually a Heir of Durin's Line, each in his own degree. Even Ori and Dori are, but here are followers. One of the goals of Balin's Colony in Moria was to find Thrór's Ring... My point is, maybe it should be borne by "a Dwarf Companion". Just maybe. Dwalin and Kili can get good profit of it.

AND it should give Damage +1. I know, I know, I'M ONLY A DIE-HARD DAMAGE BONUS FAN and my ideas about damage bonuses can be dismissed due to that illness of mine. But if there was only a single justified case to give a Dwarf a damage bonus, that case would be a Ring of Power.

- 2x • Great Barricade : Cost (2). Dwarven Possession • Support Area. Fortification. To play, exert a Dwarven companion. If the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, discard this possession. At sites 7 and 8, each minion skirmishing a Dwarf companion is strength -2.
I like the double move restriction, but that way can clog the hand (like the previous version of Athelas). I'd change it with "If the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, discard this possession or exert a [Dwarven] companion." As it doesn't work at site 9, only a player taking advantage of exertions wouldn't discard it at 9.

- 2x The Eagles Are Coming... and attach it to a Dwarf companion (without paying the aid cost).
Nice, useful clarification.


Some wording considerations...

- • The Arkenstone : "Take a card stacker here into your hand."
- Dwarven Spear : "While bearer is skirmishing a mounted minion, bearer is strength +1." This card is not inadequately written, but is a bit cacophonous with that redundancy... It's enough with either "While bearer is skirmishing a mounted minion, he is strength +1" or "While skirmishing a mounted minion, bearer is strength +1." The latter is my favourite, as is shorter.
- • Thrain : "Response: If bearer wins a skirmish, you may play a Dwarven possession from your draw deck." As a response action, you may use it infinitely as far as you met the requirement. It should say "Each time bearer wins a skirmish...".
- Old Thrush : "Discard this follower to take into hand...".

Given there are 3 different Rings now, Smaug's Regroup ability might say "to discard a Free Peoples card (except a companion, Bard or a Ring)". 2 of them hide by themselves (Narya hid itself and The One Ring hid the whole bearer), while the Ring of Thrór survived in dwarf domain after the Fall of Erebor...

That's all by now. Great improvements you have made!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 08:20:15 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 02, 2015, 09:44:06 PM
Reply #23

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2015, 09:44:06 PM »
The Smaug (Non) Culture is a great bunch of great ideas! But I believe most need some refinement to shine with their full potential. Hope this helps...

New Shadows

Shadow Smaug (15 cards): it will finally be 15 cards in this pack and 10 cards in the Nazguls pack.
If the Nazgul Pack has only 10 cards and every Nazgul is added, only 1 card slot will remain for either another copy of the Witchie or 1 support card. 1 copy of The Morgul Blade ("made for the Witch-King-of-Ang-marr... and buried with him!") and... oh, that's all!

I believe The Necromancer [Sauron] Pack should have 10 cards, as that culture has only 1 minion and will share dynamics with the Nazgul one. Unless we include [Sauron] Orcs or [Wraith] Orcs in it, representing that Legion of Dol Guldur seen by the captive Gandalf...

- 2x The Arkenstone, King's Jewel : Cost (2). [No Culture] Possession. Strength +2  Vitality +2. To play spot Smaug, if you can spot The Arkenstone, discard it. Plays on Bilbo. Each companion and ally of a different culture than bearer's is strength -2. Bilbo, Bard and Thorin gain this ability: "Maneuver: Add 2 doubts to transfer the Arkenstone to this character."
I'm really glad you are using that idea! However, I've been thinking about it and found there's a little detail that should be corrected if there is enough room:

"Each companion and ally of a different culture than bearer's is strength -2" should exclude "Gandalf and Associates" from the strenght reduction, for 2 reasons: Saruman and Radagast weren't present in the strife, and Gandalf was invulnerable to dissention (being an unifying factor instead). Otherwise the Necromancer & the Nazgul will sweep them too easily...

"Each companion and ally of a different culture than bearer's is strength -2 (except [Gandalf])."

I would prefer a [Gandalf] culture differentiation than one based on the Wizard race. Due to the possiblility of a future inclusion of Beorn and/or Gwaihir as allies...

As the Shadow Arkenstone is an possession instead of an artifact, the FP player is able to discard it with Nori. Otherwise he will need to change his text to "...to discard a possession or an artifact".

- 4x Smaug's Awakening : Cost (3). [No culture] Condition • Support area. To play, discard your hand. Each site on the adventure path is a mountain. Shadow: Play Smaug from your draw deck or discard pile, he is strength -3 until the regroup phase.
I'd change it a bit: "Play Smaug from your draw deck or discard pile, he is strength -3 and damage -1 until the regroup phase." If he remains with damage +2, be strength 14 or not he will kill the whole Company one by one...

- 3x Fury of the Dragon : Cost (0). [No culture] Condition • Support area. To play, discard 2 Orcs. While the fellowship is at site 6, each time Smaug wins a skirmish, wound a [Dale] ally twice. Maneuver: If the total number of minions you can spot is greater than the number of doubts you can spot, discard a minion from play to add a doubt
"While the fellowship is at site 6" just can't happen often. There are other ways of depicting his assault on Late-town...

(0) Fury of the Dragon [No culture]
Condition • Support area.
To play, discard 2 Orcs. While you can spot Smaug, [Dale] allies can participate in archery fire and skirmishes.
Each time Smaug kills an ally in a skirmish, you may add a doubt and exert a companion twice.

Maneuver: If you can spot more minions than doubts, discard a minion to add a doubt.
"What have we done?"

The maneuver ability is just amazing!

- 3x Twisted Gold of Dragon : Cost (0). [No culture] Condition • Support area. To play, discard 2 Orcs. Shadow: Discard a [Dwarven] artifact to make each site on the adventure path a mountain until the end of the turn. Maneuver: Play Smaug from your draw deck or discard pile to add a doubt.
This card can, after being played, without any cost discard each and every [Dwarven] artifact. You can repeat the Shadow action until there aren't artifacts. That shouldn't be a cost, but the effect of a heavy cost. Something like "Shadow: Remove 3 doubts to discard a [Dwarven] artifact and make each site on the adventure path gain mountain until the end of the turn." 3 doubts isn't an unreachable goal, moreover if it's to discard an artifact (who said Orcrist?) and then play Smaug.

The title might be changed to "Accursed Gold". "Thror's love of gold had grown too fierce... for dragons covet gold with a dark and fierce desire."

- 3x Dissension : Cost (3). [No culture] Event - Skirmish. You may exert Smaug twice to play this event from your discard pile. Spot X doubts to make a Dwarf companion strength -X. While you can spot The Arkenstone, this event's twilight cost is -2.
3x is a good number. :up: But if you reduce the number of any other Smaug card, raise this to 4x. It's the only pump in the whole non-Culture.


There is a worrisome lack of twilight reduction for Smaug here. With a base of 18, minus 1 for almost each FP character won't be enough most of the times to make him fight more often... There is plenty of non-unique conditions here. Choose some of them with enough room and add something like "Smaug's twilight cost is -2" or "Smaug's twilight cost is -1 for each X you can spot"... artifact, dwarf, doubt.

And last but not LEAST: if Smaug can appear in previous sites than 7 and even reappear, he should say "If Smaug is killed at site 7 or higher, remove him from the game". There's no room unfortunately :(

This is a great bunch of great ideas, as I said before. Keep on working them!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 08:20:39 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 06, 2015, 05:04:09 PM
Reply #24

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2015, 05:04:09 PM »
- 2x • Ring of Fury: Cost (2). Sauron Artifact • Ring. Vitality +1. Bearer must be Sauron. When you play this artifact take up to 2 minions from your discard pile into hand. Skirmish: Exert Sauron to make a minion strength +2 (or +3 if you cannot spot Gandalf).

What do you mean with Ring of Fury? Hmmmm. Is that the Ring of Durin III, forefather of Thrór?

Since some years I have a theory about the Ring of Thrór: I think Sauron utterly needed the last and strongest of the Dwarven Rings in his plans to regain enough strength and return to Mordor, to assemble his blitzkrieg against the Free Peoples. And he knew Durin's Heir bore it and preserved it in his Line when felt his vital strength was going to its end, like Thrór did with Thráin before taking a look at the Halls of Moria.

So Thráin was deliberately not executed by Sauron when captured, but instead imprisoned so he had some remainig years of life in his destiny (9 years) and hadn't any feel of a near end which would make him give the Ring to Thorin. Imprisoned and tortured, he was forced to surrender his Ring. The Ring was Sauron's only objective there, not even the warrior King of Durin's Folk himself. Nor anything else he bore...

That would be another incredible turn of events in Tolkien's writings, small but decisive (similar to the one when Saruman tricks Radagast to attract Gandalf, but Radagast's good intentions and deceived mind sent Gwaihir to communicate both). The survival of Thráin in Dol Guldur allowed Gandalf to reach him in the nick of time, to get a couple of things worthless to Sauron's mind: a Map and a Key. Hope born of death: Eucatastrophe.


Well, theories aside... Is that Ring of Fury the Ring of Thrór? If the answer is yes, then just like the Arkenstone, the Ring should have the same title for the 2 opposite versions along with a mechanism of discarding the FP one. A mechansim with a cost, because unlike the Arkenstone which by nature (given the circumstances) corrupted and caused dissension, the Ring of Thrór must change hands before Sauron can use it (there's a scene in the Extended Edition of DoS about that Ring).

- 2x • Ring of Thror : Cost 0. Dwarven Artifact • Ring. Strength +1. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Bearer is damage +1. Maneuver: Take a Dwarven event into hand from your discard pile. Discard this artifact.

Damage +1. Any dwarf companion. :up:
Now looks as the Ring of Guile, but with a vitality bonus would be too much in the hands of Dwalin or Kili. Anyway, I'd love to see a little differentiation with the [Dwarven] Rings of Reflections and the Ring of Artifice 17R4. There were 5 [Dwarven] Rings made by Decipher, this might be a 6th ring instead of another version of a previous one:

(0) • Ring of Thrór [Dwarven]
Artifact • Ring
Strength +1
Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. While you can spot X doubts and X [Dwarven] artifacts, bearer is damage +X (limit +3).
Maneuver: Take a [Dwarven] event into hand from your discard pile. Discard this artifact.

Then the [Sauron] version should be the named Ring of Thrór too, but with a subtitle like "Last of the Seven Rings"...

The same maneuver ability than Ring of Guile, and a potential for more damage. A good reason to play with fire and keep some dangerous doubts on Bilbo...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 05:59:38 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 06, 2015, 09:22:28 PM
Reply #25

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2015, 09:22:28 PM »
I read this thread which could be helpful for the Ring of Thror (or Durin ?) :).
http://thorinoakenshield.net/2013/12/01/


This new Ring of Thror seems a bit complicated for the players. But maybe only a +1 vitality bonus like Sauron's Ring ? And a minor ability ?
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January 07, 2015, 02:12:09 AM
Reply #26

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2015, 02:12:09 AM »
Very nice reading, my fellow. Really thank you! =D>

My theory is only a bit different. It's stated there that Sauron recovered the first 2 by force (along with the resistance to corruption and surrender), so he could kill Thráin and take back the Ring. The point here is destiny: if Thráin was near to his death, he would have felt that and the Ring would have been preserved. Sauron knew that and planned to not kill him, in order to capture a Ringbearer instead of just a doomed king... Thus Sauron tricked Thráin's heart by playing with destiny.

To make the Ring less complicated, might give vitality +1 and damage +1, without strength addition and the complicated calculation. And a small skirmish ability:

(0) • Ring of Thrór [Dwarven]
Artifact • Ring
Vitality +1
Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Bearer is damage +1.
Skirmish: Play a [Dwarven] event or exert bearer to make him strength +1.

Gives vitality, which is useful for the defending skills of Dwalin and Kili. And gives damage and possible strength, which is useful for killing minions. But requires vitality in both cases, so those uses aren't compatible. Glóin might use it very well.

That fighting ability is indeed the one I want to give to the Dwarven Shield (besides "The minion archery total is -1"), if there is going to be a shield to counter Shadow archery. Then might be instead another skill. A 'berserker' skill representing survival and toughness: "For each wound on bearer, he is strength +1", powerful but risky. Or a healing skill: "Each time bearer kills a minion in a skirmish, you may heal bearer"... The berserker one is my favourite here.

It must be present in both sides: a [Dwarven] Ring of Thrór, and a [Sauron] Ring of Thrór. The [Sauron] version might allow him to skirmish, more or less like the combo of Saruman's Staff + Servant of the Eye. I still have a good bunch of things to think about the Sauron and Nazgul Shadows...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 08:21:09 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 07, 2015, 09:31:41 AM
Reply #27

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2015, 09:31:41 AM »
Ok I changed a bit the [Dwarven] Ring of Thror. Ok, tell me if you have some ideas on the [Wraith] and [Sauron] packs.

Most of the cards is fixed now, I think we have all the components of the movies and the book, no?

We have to do then the Swarm pack for Bolg and Azog.


My biggest problem is to find good pictures from the Battle of the Five Armies, the DVD will be in th store only in April. Hard to find a good quality picture of the Mithril Coat, Dain, ....
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 10:30:32 AM by -Enola- »
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January 07, 2015, 05:00:30 PM
Reply #28

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2015, 05:00:30 PM »
The Sauron and Nazgul Packs look good, but there are some things that don't seem to fit... For example, Sauron turns every Orc fierce but the strongest Orc available is just an unarmed 8 strenght guy who can't rival Thorin or Dwalin. Sauron can assign a minion to Bilbo... Nazgul are coting too much given their new Site Number of 5, some big ones like the Witchie and Attea should cost -2, while the smaller ones should cost -1 and be strength +1...

I'm convinced that key [Wraith] and [Sauron] minions in those packs should allow the Wise to fight them (and some Smaug cards do the same with Dale men), and give a punish or greater threat to the FP player in case a dwarf fights them. "Wizard and Elf allies may partificapte in skirmishes". Or "Wise allies may participate in skirmishes", and give the new "Wise" keyword to The White Council...

I'm basing that thought on this part of the book:
"We have long ago paid the Goblins of Moria," said Thorin; "we must give a thought to the Necromancer."

"Don't be absurd! He is an Enemy far beyond the powers of all the Dwarves put together, if they could all be collected again from the four corners of the world. The one thing your father wished was for his son to read the Map and use the Key. The Dragon and the Mountain are more than big enough tasks for you!"


Gandalf knew Thorin was in grave danger when he travelled across the Mirkwood, and the assault of the White Council on Dol Guldur was indeed a plan weaved by him to (amongst other things) retreat Sauron's presence from Thorin's path. Gandalf didn't want Thorin to fight "an Enemy far beyond the powers of all the Dwarves put together", and the mere presence of The Necromancer in Dol Guldur was enough to attract The Wise (even Saruman in the books)...


But before talking in greater detail about the cards in Sauron and Nazgul Subpacks, there are some pending issues...

In the main deck : Site 2: Trollshaw Forest -> Troll's Cave
Shadow number : 3
Forest. Underground. At the start of your fellowship phase, you may play a hand weapon from your draw deck.

Site 4: Great Goblin's Cavern -> Wooded Steep Cliff
Shadow Number 3
Mountain. Forest. When the fellowship moves to Wooded Steep Cliff, Thorin or 2 other companions must exert.
Those look good! Wooded Steep Cliff is designed here in the ways of Decipher's FOTR and TTT sites 4, and will be quite powerful when playing wargriders. Threatening Warg I mean.

Watchful Orc
When you play this minion, you may replace the fellowship's current site with a site from your adventure deck. Shadow: Exert this minion twice to make each site on the adventure path gains battleground, mountain, forest or underground until the end of the turn.
That's a very long text. Hope it fits inside the card room, because looks great! Anyway, is there any card that uses the 'battlground' keyword? In case not, just remove it. I believe even plains might give some benefits to wargs/wargriders and even besiegers, but alike battlerground still there isn't any card.

In case it's overpowered, or the text doesn't fit the card space, I'd leave it this way: "Shadow: Exert this minion twice to either replace the fellowship's current site with your site of the same number, or make each site on the adventure path gain mountain, forest or underground until the end of the turn." Believe it or not, that's shorter...

Goblin Footman
When you play this minion, you may play a possession or artifact from your discard pile on your minion.
To play the Ring of Thrór on Sauron, great! And even play Troll Knife from discard, that was an abandoned aspect in the Troll culture. :up:

Smaug
Cost: 18
Regroup: Exert Smaug and discard another minion to discard a Free Peoples card (except a companion, Bard or a Ring).
That's the most senseful regroup ability, as Thrór kept his Ring and Smaug couldn't put his claws on The One... I'd reduce his cost a bit, 15 seems enough if you are willing to use those cards that make him fight before site 8.

Dain Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x • Dain Ironfoot : Cost (3). Home 9. Strength 7, Vitality 3. Ally. Dwarf.  Thorin is strength +1. At the start of the regroup phase, you may discard a [Dwarven] follower to discard a minion (except Smaug).
I still think this younger version of Dain should be str 8, dmg+1 instead... moreover if he'll fight these new monsters under development. Mirkwood and Esgaroth allies have the archer keyword, Iron Hills buddies should all be damage +1.

Thrain Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x • Thrain : Cost (2). [Dwarven] Follower. Dwarf. Strength +1. Aid - Exert Gandalf and add (2). Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may play a [Dwarven] possession from your draw deck
Is there any chance of adding a way of playing Thráin from the draw deck? Anyway he won't play Orcrist nor any other artifact, but only his tricks and maybe Dwarven Axes or fortifications. He is the main gear in the whole pack and thus I believe the pack requires something to pull him, like a modification in Thrór's Heirlooms:

Thrór's Heirlooms : Cost (3) [Dwarven] Event. Regroup: Exert a Dwarf companion to play Thráin, a [Dwarven] possession or [Dwarven] artifact from your draw deck or discard pile.

- 2x • Ring of Thrór : Cost (0). [Dwarven] Artifact • Ring. Vitality +1. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Bearer is damage +1. Maneuver: Take a [Dwarven] event into hand from your discard pile. Discard this artifact.
:up: But given the Thráin Pack and the Main Deck don't provide weapons except Orcrist, the text may remain as it is but the attributes might be slightly better for fighting: strength +1, besides the vitality +1.

- 2x • Thrór's Key : cost (1). [Dwarven] Possession. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Fellowship or Regroup: Exert a Dwarf companion and discard a [Dwarven] follower to play the fellowship's next site (replacing opponent's site if necessary). Draw a card if you play a mountain site.

"Draw a card if you play a mountain site." I'd change it to "heal a Dwarf if you play a mountain", discarding a follower is a strong cost by itself. Just remember (or watch again) the last scene in An Unexpected Journey, when Thorin watched from distance his long lost beloved homeland:

GANDALF: Erebor... the Lonely Mountain. The last of the great Dwarf kingdoms of Middle-earth.
THORIN: Our home.

- 2x The Eagles Are Coming : [Gandalf] Cost (2). Event. Spell. Skirmish: Exert Gandalf to play a [Gandalf] follower from your draw deck and attach it to a Dwarf companion (without paying the aid cost).
This event seems very good but is far more limited than it looks... there are only 2 [Gandalf] followers. What if it plays allies too?

The Eagles Are Coming : [Gandalf] Cost (2). Event. Spell. Maneuver or Skirmish: Exert Gandalf to play a [Gandalf] follower or ally from your hand or draw deck. If its a follower, you may attach it to a Dwarf companion (without paying the aid cost). If it's an ally, may participate in skirmishes until the regroup phase.

That way Radagast may participate in skirmishes far from his home site, but only once as this card requires to play the ally and then allow him to fight. Radagast borne by a Great Eagle to the Battle of the Five Armies was such a great detail!

- 2x Barrels : Cost (1). [Shire] Event. Regroup: Exert 2 [Dwarven] companions to discard up to 2 minions (except Smaug) and draw 3 cards. If the fellowship is at a river, make the move limit +1 for this turn.
"... and draw 3 cards". That's it! That's the addition it needed to represent the flavour of the situation.


One last point: if you are going to post the changes by including them in the first post, try to demark the recently changed cards and concepts. It's a good idea to edit the first post, but without a mark the reading of each card becomes very inefficient in respect of time. Adding an asterisk * before the title of the modified/added card might be enough...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 08:22:10 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 08, 2015, 02:48:06 AM
Reply #29

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2015, 02:48:06 AM »
The Sauron and Nazgul Packs look good, but there are some things that don't seem to fit... For example, Sauron turns every Orc fierce but the strongest Orc available is just an unarmed 8 strenght guy who can't rival Thorin or Dwalin. Sauron can assign a minion to Bilbo... Nazgul are coting too much given their new Site Number of 5, some big ones like the Witchie and Attea should cost -2, while the smaller ones should cost -1 and be strength +1...

I'm convinced that key [Wraith] and [Sauron] minions in those packs should allow the Wise to fight them (and some Smaug cards do the same with Dale men), and give a punish or greater threat to the FP player in case a dwarf fights them. "Wizard and Elf allies may partificapte in skirimishes". Or "Wise allies may participate in skirimishes", and give the new "Wise" keyword to The White Council...

I modify a bit the Sauron culture. Tell me if it's ok.

Watchful Orc:
In case it's overpowered, or the text doesn't fit the card space, I'd leave it this way: "Shadow: Exert this minion twice to either replace the fellowship's current site with your site of the same number, or make each site on the adventure path gain mountain, forest or underground until the end of the turn." Believe it or not, that's shorter...

I replace the text with this one, your sentence is a bit too long to be perfectly clear. I put it in two parts. Tell me what you think about it. (I forgot the battleground keyword, which will be added).

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Add/Watchful Orc.png

Goblin Footman
When you play this minion, you may play a possession or artifact from your discard pile on your minion.

To play the Ring of Thrór on Sauron, great! And even play Troll Knife from discard, that was an abandoned aspect in the Troll culture. :up:

The Goblin Footman has always been able to play back the Troll Knife ;). The artifact part is new, but I don't know if it's very thematic.

Smaug
That's the most senseful regroup ability, as Thrór kept his Ring and Smaug couldn't put his claws on The One... I'd reduce his cost a bit, 15 seems enough if you are willing to use those cards that make him fight before site 8.
It was 16 before and it was really easy to play him for 4 at site 8.
We have to test it, I think we will let him at 16, it's good.

- 2x • Dain Ironfoot : Cost (3). Home 9. Strength 7, Vitality 3. Ally. Dwarf.  Thorin is strength +1. At the start of the regroup phase, you may discard a [Dwarven] follower to discard a minion (except Smaug).
I still think this younger version of Dain should be str 8, dmg+1 instead... moreover if he'll fight these new monsters under development. Mirkwood and Esgaroth allies have the archer keyword, Iron Hills buddies should all be damage +1.

No sorry, I prefer to keep the same abilities than in LOTR even if he is younger. Like Bilbo, Galadriel, ...

- 2x • Thrain : Cost (2). [Dwarven] Follower. Dwarf. Strength +1. Aid - Exert Gandalf and add (2). Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may play a [Dwarven] possession from your draw deck
Is there any chance of adding a way of playing Thráin from the draw deck? Anyway he won't play Orcrist nor any other artifact, but only his tricks and maybe Dwarven Axes or fortifications. He is the main gear in the whole pack and thus I believe the pack requires something to pull him, like a modification in Thrór's Heirlooms:
Thrór's Heirlooms : Cost (3) [Dwarven] Event. Regroup: Exert a Dwarf companion to play Thráin, a [Dwarven] possession or [Dwarven] artifact from your draw deck or discard pile.

I don't think it's so much thematic. There is other way to play Thrain, the site 1 in the Booster pack or King Under the Mountain if there is also the Dain pack.

- 2x • Ring of Thrór :
:up: But given the Thráin Pack and the Main Deck don't provide weapons except Orcrist, the text may remain as it is but the attributes might be slightly better for fighting: strength +1, besides the vitality +1.

I prefer to keep all the Ring with only a Vitality +1. It's more coherent ^^.

- 2x • Thrór's Key : cost (1). [Dwarven] Possession. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Fellowship or Regroup: Exert a Dwarf companion and discard a [Dwarven] follower to play the fellowship's next site (replacing opponent's site if necessary). Draw a card if you play a mountain site.

"Draw a card if you play a mountain site." I'd change it to "heal a Dwarf if you play a mountain", discarding a follower is a strong cost by itself. Just remember (or watch again) the last scene in An Unexpected Journey, when Thorin watched from distance his long lost beloved homeland:
[/quote]

Ok thank you, I just change it ^^.

The Eagles Are Coming

Right. But I want to keep cards simpler as possible. I propose the following

- 2x The Eagles Are Coming : [Gandalf] Cost (2). Event. Spell.
Maneuver: Exert a [Gandalf] ally to allow that ally to participate in archery fire and skirmishes until the regroup phase.
Skirmish: Exert Gandalf to play a [Gandalf] follower from your draw deck or discard pile and attach it to a Dwarf companion (without paying the aid cost).

One last point: if you are going to post the changes by including them in the first post, try to demark the recently changed cards and concepts. It's a good idea to edit the first post, but without a mark the reading of each card becomes very inefficient in respect of time. Adding an asterisk * before the title of the modified/added card might be enough...

I will let you know what I change in my current post.

Thank you for all your ideas, they are great!!


PS: You will see on the first post a first proposition for the Shadow Archery.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 12:56:07 PM by -Enola- »
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