Author Topic: Light & Shadow - Experimenting with Keywords (Read 18536 times)

Thranduil · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2009, 02:51:47 AM »

Quote from: lem0nhead on January 22, 2009, 12:45:39 AM

May need a bit more. Overshadowed by other Saurons.

He would obviously have more text; I was just showing how I might use the keyword.

Quote from: lem0nhead on January 22, 2009, 12:45:39 AM

Resolute or Steadfast or Unyielding are much more lotr-ey words etc...

Excellent! I was trying to find good words, but I didn't like any of them much, but I love Unyielding.

Thranduil

lem0nhead · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:02:13 AM »

O i see now, fair enough. Glad you like the keyword.

Its a shame you dropped protector. That was your best keyword, espcially as im not a fan of herald (the word mainly but the mechanic aint the most useful).

Thranduil · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:10:29 AM »

Quote from: lem0nhead on January 22, 2009, 03:02:13 AM

O i see now, fair enough. Glad you like the keyword.

Its a shame you dropped protector. That was your best keyword, espcially as im not a fan of herald (the word mainly but the mechanic aint the most useful).

But you see most people didn't like it! And as I said, I'm trying to have less fighting keywords and more combo keywords. Hmmm.... I'm not sure about herald. I might leave it.

Thranduil

leokula · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:58:49 AM »

Quote from: Thranduil on January 21, 2009, 04:29:39 PM

Shall we have a bit of a sample of what we might be seeing with these keywords?

•The Mirror of Galadriel, Guide for the Wise
Artifact • Support Area
To play, spot Galadriel.
At the start of the maneuver phase, you may exert a companion with resistance X to foresee X (look at the top X cards of your draw deck; place those cards on top of or beneath your draw deck in any order). Then you may draw a card.
"‘What shall we look for, and what shall we see?'"
L R 27

I think this is too (i mean TOO) abusable. Exert Frodo to look at the top 10~14 cards of your draw deck and then just do whatever you like seems so overpowered. You can simply choose your next hand, make basicly whatever combo you want, take as many dark approach as you need, and thrown the rest away to the bottom, take enquea and that BNAP that was a few turns away, throw doubles to the bottom... endless possibilities and all of them seem wrong to me. It you say add a burden and exert an elf, I'd say it's a tiny bit more balanced, still looking at the next 6~7 cards and arrange them as you like seems too much for me. Forsee 2, 3 is ok, but more than that seems just crazy for me.

•Glóin, Dwarven Delegate
Companion • Dwarf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Damage +1.
At the start of the fellowship phase, you may herald a card (look at the top card of your draw deck; if it is a card, you may take it into hand). If that card is a Dwarf, you may play him; his twilight cost is -2.
"Next to Frodo on his right sat a dwarf of important appearance, richly dressed."
L R 10

I'm with lem0n. What are the odds?

Awoken in the Darkness
Event • Shadow
Spot an or card to foresee 5 (look at the top 5 cards of your draw deck; place those cards on top of or beneath your draw deck in any order). Then you may herald The Balrog (look at the top card of your draw deck; if it is The Balrog, you may take it into hand).
L U

Again, too much "forsee" for me and the balrog part makes it more OP. So far, the only easy way Decipher provided to play the Balrog was in FOTR, 'cause it's supposed to be a hard minion to play, IMO.

•Sauron, Seeking for the Ring
Minion • Maia
Str: 24
Vit: 5
Sit: 6
Damage +1. Fierce.
If Sauron is heralded, you may play him immediately; his twilight cost is -8.
L R

Seems to me like you'd need a lot of forsee and herald in your deck to make this useful... I personally don't like this.

•Aragorn, Last of His Line
Companion • Man
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Res: 8
Ranger. Unyielding (Aragorn's resistance is not modified by the number of burdens).
Maneuver: Exert Aragorn to make a companion resistance X until the regroup phase, where X is Aragorn's resistance.
L R

How does this work with the ring bearer? He can't be corrupted at any site 9, no matter what?

Thranduil · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:03:46 AM »

Quote from: leokula on January 22, 2009, 04:58:49 AM

How does this work with the ring bearer? He can't be corrupted at any site 9, no matter what?

Theoretically, if a Ring-bearer would have this keyword, they would not be corrupted if the number of burdens equalled their resistance. However they would be corrupted if they became resistance 0 through other means. This is why I would be careful not to allow Ring-bearers to gain this keyword, or why it might possibly be better to make the keyword "This companion's resistance is only reduced by the number of burdens."

Thranduil

leokula · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:11:08 AM »

No thran, I mean, what happens if aragorn exerts to make the ring bearer resistance 8 until the regroup phase at site 9? U should make it "unbound companion", shouldn't u?

lem0nhead · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:14:33 AM »

Wow yeah nice catch, as aragorns resistance is invulnerable to burdens he can always make frodo +8 resistance! nice leo.

Thranduil · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:15:06 AM »

Quote from: leokula on January 22, 2009, 05:11:08 AM

No thran, I mean, what happens if aragorn exerts to make the ring bearer resistance 8 until the regroup phase at site 9? U should make it "unbound companion", shouldn't u?

Ah, sorry; I suspect you're right.

Thranduil

FM · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:31:06 AM »

I think LK covered most of it, I think herald is too much of a shot in the dark to make a card based SOLELY on being able to herald it, I'd make it more like a perk, like the cantrips in MtG, you gen a smaller effect AND get to draw a card, so sometimes it's worth to play with them if you don't need a bigger effect. And yeah, Foresee should be limited, the biggest Scry card I say WAS Foresee, and c'mon, it was a 4-mana sorcery that had Scry 4, and it was ALL it did side from drawing cards. I think Foresee in LotR should either come at a high cost or smaller amounts, like 4 TOPS in SPECIALIZED cards. In MtG, aside from dedicated decks, sure, you can stack the top 5 cards of your library with an Index, but let's face it, it means you'll be planning you next 4-5 turns. In LotR, looking at 4 cards gives you an ENTIRE new, almost-perfectly-carved hand due to the amount of card-drawing that takes place.

Thranduil · « **Reply #24 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:43:16 AM »

Fair enough, I take all your points. I was just experimenting with how the keywords would work rather than posting cards that were going to be in the set.

to all!

Thranduil

leokula · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2009, 07:29:37 AM »

Quote from: Felipe Musco on January 22, 2009, 06:31:06 AM

I think LK covered most of it, I think herald is too much of a shot in the dark to make a card based SOLELY on being able to herald it, I'd make it more like a perk, like the cantrips in MtG, you gen a smaller effect AND get to draw a card, so sometimes it's worth to play with them if you don't need a bigger effect. And yeah, Foresee should be limited, the biggest Scry card I say WAS Foresee, and c'mon, it was a 4-mana sorcery that had Scry 4, and it was ALL it did side from drawing cards. I think Foresee in LotR should either come at a high cost or smaller amounts, like 4 TOPS in SPECIALIZED cards. In MtG, aside from dedicated decks, sure, you can stack the top 5 cards of your library with an Index, but let's face it, it means you'll be planning you next 4-5 turns. In LotR, looking at 4 cards gives you an ENTIRE new, almost-perfectly-carved hand due to the amount of card-drawing that takes place.

I hardly agree to an entire post of yours but you managed to cover everything I didn't in my post

Herald should be exactly as u said, a sort of bonus and about foresee, well that's it

Anvar · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:54:43 AM »

Quote from: Thranduil on January 21, 2009, 04:29:39 PM

•The Mirror of Galadriel, Guide for the Wise
Artifact • Support Area
To play, spot Galadriel.
At the start of the maneuver phase, you may exert a companion with resistance X to foresee X (look at the top X cards of your draw deck; place those cards on top of or beneath your draw deck in any order). Then you may draw a card.
"‘What shall we look for, and what shall we see?'"
L R 27

I like the idea of foresee as a game verb rather than as a keyword but this would be crazy. I'll exert my Resolute Hobbit with the Ring of Rings to sort out the top 14 cards of my deck! Should definitely say unbound companion, possibly Elf companion.

•Glóin, Dwarven Delegate
Companion • Dwarf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Damage +1.
At the start of the fellowship phase, you may herald a card (look at the top card of your draw deck; if it is a card, you may take it into hand). If that card is a Dwarf, you may play him; his twilight cost is -2.
"Next to Frodo on his right sat a dwarf of important appearance, richly dressed."
L R 10

On the other hand I don't like herald as a game verb and would prefer to see it as a keyword. Ie. Gloin could say "Each event gains "Herald - card". If you reveal a Dwarf companion using this ability you may play that companion."

Awoken in the Darkness
Event • Shadow
Spot an or card to foresee 5 (look at the top 5 cards of your draw deck; place those cards on top of or beneath your draw deck in any order). Then you may herald The Balrog (look at the top card of your draw deck; if it is The Balrog, you may take it into hand).
L U

Foresee at more than 4 is probably too much IMO. It slows down the game far too much.

•Sauron, Seeking for the Ring
Minion • Maia
Str: 24
Vit: 5
Sit: 6
Damage +1. Fierce.
If Sauron is heralded, you may play him immediately; his twilight cost is -8.
L R

•Aragorn, Last of His Line
Companion • Man
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Res: 8
Ranger. Unyielding (Aragorn's resistance is not modified by the number of burdens).
Maneuver: Exert Aragorn to make an unbound companion resistance X until the regroup phase, where X is Aragorn's resistance.
L R

Neat idea. Could be very useful with certain strategies. I like the use of Unyielding here.

Thranduil · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:42:18 PM »

Okay, I've lost interest in Herald. So the keywords I'm looking at for this set are going to be:

Foresee X (look at the top X cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards on top of or beneath your draw deck in any order)

Assaulter (for each assaulter that is assigned to a skirmish, each Shadow card is twilight cost -1)

Unyielding (this companion's resistance is not modified by the number of burdens)

Any final comments or thoughts before I run with them?

Thranduil

Elrohir · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:02:48 PM »

I like those keywords. In which phase do you use Foresee?

Thranduil · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:07:50 PM »

Quote from: Elrohir on January 22, 2009, 04:02:48 PM

I like those keywords. In which phase do you use Foresee?

Any phase that the card tells you to.

As some examples, here are 2 cards that might be in the set:

•The Mirror of Galadriel, Guide for the Wise

Artifact • Support Area
To play, spot Galadriel.
At the start of the maneuver phase, you may exert a companion with resistance 7 or more to foresee 4 (look at the top 4 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards on top of or beneath your draw deck in any order). Then you may draw a card.
"‘What shall we look for, and what shall we see?'"
L R 27

Lighting the Way

Event • Maneuver
Spell.
When you play this card, you may foresee 2 (look at the top 2 cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards on top of or beneath your draw deck in any order).
Exert a

Wizard to make each companion (except the Ring-bearer) unyielding until the end of the regroup phase (the resistance of unyielding companions is not modified by the number of burdens).
L C 39