The Way Into Mordor - Isengard (12/31: Token Machine Stuff)

[Thranduil]

Do you mean "a character" or "each character" cos the first aint clear who it should be. Fine card though.

They're the same thing. The wording changed from Battle of Helms Deep to Ents of Fangorn but they definitely mean the same thing.

Thranduil

[lem0nhead]

Im not sure I accept that, though if youre quoting rules or CRD then I will.

As far as I'm concerned 'each' makes more sense and is grammatically more correct, and I'd be happier phrased that way.

You dont want to make me sad do you DI? 

[Thranduil]

Im not sure I accept that, though if youre quoting rules or CRD then I will.

As far as I'm concerned 'each' makes more sense and is grammatically more correct, and I'd be happier phrased that way.

You dont want to make me sad do you DI? 

Check it for yourself. Look at Berserk Rager, Berserk Savage and see Kralik's note. Then look at Berserk Butcher and you'll see the wording changed.

Thranduil

[lem0nhead]

Yeah i know what its supposed to do and how it works but if thats what your basing on it i stand by 'each' is the correct phrasing and that decipher bodged up using the word 'a' because it makes less sense even if it does work.

[DáinIronfoot]

I'm with lem0n. I know they ARE synonymous (and I made those cards with that knowledge in mind), but they SHOULDN'T be. Of course, that's not the first time Big D has stretched the English language a bit.

[sickofpalantirs]

Berserk Raider
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 7
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Damage +1.
This minion is strength +1 for each wound on a character in its skirmish.
While you can spot 3 Free Peoples cultures, this minion is fierce.
While you can spot 4 Free Peoples cultures, this minion gains hunter 4.
Their hatred for the free peoples of Middle-earth was fierce.
fine.

•Rampaging Berserker
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 10
Vitality: 3
Site: 5
Fierce. To play, spot 2 minions.
Rampaging Berserker is strength +2 for each wound on a character in its skirmish.
Rampaging Berserker is damage +1 for each Free Peoples culture you can spot over 1.
The unexpected presence of Elves and a very persistent Dwarf at Helm's Deep just made Saruman's forces--and the already enraged berserkers in particular--all the more bloodthirsty.

I guess its fine, though I would be more comfortable with each culture over 2.

[Gate Troll]

Berserk Raider
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 7
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Damage +1.
This minion is strength +1 for each wound on a character in its skirmish.
While you can spot 3 Free Peoples cultures, this minion is fierce.
While you can spot 4 Free Peoples cultures, this minion gains hunter 4.
Their hatred for the free peoples of Middle-earth was fierce.

I'd probably make it:

'yadda-yadda 2 Free Peoples cultures, yadda-yadda'
'yadda-yadda 3 Free Peoples cultures, yadda-yadda'

as opposed to the current:

'yadda-yadda 3 Free Peoples cultures, yadda-yadda'
'yadda-yadda 4 Free Peoples cultures, yadda-yadda' 


•Rampaging Berserker
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 10
Vitality: 3
Site: 5
Fierce. To play, spot 2 minions.
Rampaging Berserker is strength +2 for each wound on a character in its skirmish.
Rampaging Berserker is damage +1 for each Free Peoples culture you can spot over 1.
The unexpected presence of Elves and a very persistent Dwarf at Helm's Deep just made Saruman's forces--and the already enraged berserkers in particular--all the more bloodthirsty.

Yeah! Nice beserker. 

I've been gone too long... 

[DáinIronfoot]

Okay, I think I've finally got this figured out.

I have decided to turn berserker into a keyword similar to hunter. It will be incremental, meaning it will work like this:

Berserker X. (This character is strength +X for each wound on each character in its skirmish.)

In most cases, it will be simply berserker 1 (including for these actual Berserkers), though there will be a small handful of exceptions...like the Rampaging Berserker in the last post!

The beauty of this is that now, not only can I spot berserkers without having to say "minion with Berserk or Berserker in its title", but I can make a minion a berserker without having to actually give them berserker text. Why is this important? Because I want to integrate the old-school Berserkers like Berserk Slayer and Berserk Butcher and Uruk-hai Berserker, so I want to give them the keyword berserker...WITHOUT inadvertantly doubling their wounds-for-strength abilities. If berserker with no numbers at the end triggered the strength-boosting text, then giving, say, Berserk Rager the keyword berserker would essentially be changing its current "Berserk Rager is strength +1 for each wound on a character in its skirmish" to "Berserk Rager is strength +2 for each wound on a character in its skirmish". Oops.

But of course, berseker as a hunter-like keyword doesn't work that way. Giving a minion berserker 1 would do what I described with the Rager, but giving it simply berserker adds no additional abilities/text, yet still makes that minion spottable as a berserker.

Now that I have likely melted your brains by overcomplicating that which is very simple, let's get to a couple new cards.

Berserker Cleaver
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +3
Bearer must be an Uruk with Berserk or Berserker in its title.
Bearer is a berserker.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may exert a character.
Wrought of solid iron, these massive, spiked blades were able to clear a wide space around their wielder, devestating any unfortunate victim that got in its way.

If you don't recall what this weapon is, just click here for a reminder.

This blade serves two purposes. First, it's a method of bringing the old Berserkers up to date by giving them the new keyword. But mainly, it serves to turn your berserker beatsticks into TRUE terrors.

•Bloodlust
Condition • Support Area
Each time a Free Peoples character is killed or a follower is discarded, you may exert an Uruk-hai to place an token here.
Skirmish: Discard this condition or remove an token from here to make a berserker strength +2 (or +3 if that minion is a berserker).
The more enemies that fell before the Berserkers, the fiercer they became.

Working with the dead pile again--a mini-theme for in this set--but mainly working with berserkers.

(Oh, and yes, I have gone back through this thread and added the new keyword to my Berserkers, as well as subbing the long "with Berserk or Berserker in its title" for simply "berserker" wherever that appeared. So this keyword is fully integrated now. )

[FM]

You're losing it in the last part. You see, simply "update" the rules for your sets, so that Berserk Rager's text reads:

•Berserk Rager
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 10
Vitality: 3
Site: 5
Berserk 1. Damage +1.
Skirmish: Remove 3 tokens from a machine and exert Berserk Rager twice to wound every ally twice.

Simple as this. Reprint them if you want, even.

[Thranduil]

Yeah, I think the easiest thing for you to do is to reprint the ones you like and that support your strategies with the berserker keyword. Or as FM says, simply "retcon" your rules change into previous cards, something which MTG has done in the past.

Berserker Cleaver
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +3
Bearer must be an Uruk with Berserk or Berserker in its title.
Bearer is a berserker.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may exert a character.
Wrought of solid iron, these massive, spiked blades were able to clear a wide space around their wielder, devestating any unfortunate victim that got in its way.

There's no variable berserker on this one. I think it should just be "Bearer must be an Uruk berserker."

•Bloodlust
Condition • Support Area
Each time a Free Peoples character is killed or a follower is discarded, you may exert an Uruk-hai to place an token here.
Skirmish: Remove an token from here to make a berserker strength +2 for each character in the dead pile.
Skirmish: Discard this condition to make an Uruk-hai strength +2 (or +3 if that minion is a berserker) for each token here.
The more enemies that fell before the Berserkers, the fiercer they became.

Fair enough, but I'd prefer to have less cost for less effect (it's too expensive). Could you add tokens more easily but have +1 for each for both abilities?

Thranduil

[Gate Troll]

Berserker Cleaver
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +3
Bearer must be an Uruk with Berserk or Berserker in its title.
Bearer is a berserker.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may exert a character.
Wrought of solid iron, these massive, spiked blades were able to clear a wide space around their wielder, devestating any unfortunate victim that got in its way.

Ooh, nasty. I love it. 

•Bloodlust
Condition • Support Area
Each time a Free Peoples character is killed or a follower is discarded, you may exert an Uruk-hai to place an token here.
Skirmish: Remove an token from here to make a berserker strength +2 for each character in the dead pile.
Skirmish: Discard this condition to make an Uruk-hai strength +2 (or +3 if that minion is a berserker) for each token here.
The more enemies that fell before the Berserkers, the fiercer they became.

Scary! I'd probably tone it done by lowering some strength bonuses, that card could get really nasty.
Some sort of Toil would be awesome as well. Oh, btw, why not just give some berserkers Enduring.

[sickofpalantirs]

Berserker Cleaver
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +3
Bearer must be an Uruk with Berserk or Berserker in its title.
Bearer is a berserker.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may exert a character.
Wrought of solid iron, these massive, spiked blades were able to clear a wide space around their wielder, devestating any unfortunate victim that got in its way.
will their be uruks with berseker in their title without berserk? or is it meant to work with old berserkers?


•Bloodlust
Condition • Support Area
Each time a Free Peoples character is killed or a follower is discarded, you may exert an Uruk-hai to place an token here.
Skirmish: Remove an token from here to make a berserker strength +2 for each character in the dead pile.
Skirmish: Discard this condition to make an Uruk-hai strength +2 (or +3 if that minion is a berserker) for each token here.
The more enemies that fell before the Berserkers, the fiercer they became.

fine. though I would make the second ability a simple plus 2, just for kicks if your out of tokens

[lem0nhead]

Berserker Cleaver
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +3
Bearer must be an Uruk with Berserk or Berserker in its title.
Bearer is a berserker.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may exert a character.
Wrought of solid iron, these massive, spiked blades were able to clear a wide space around their wielder, devestating any unfortunate victim that got in its way.

I dont understand its second line's point.

•Bloodlust
Condition • Support Area
Each time a Free Peoples character is killed or a follower is discarded, you may exert an Uruk-hai to place an token here.
Skirmish: Remove an token from here to make a berserker strength +2 for each character in the dead pile.
Skirmish: Discard this condition to make an Uruk-hai strength +2 (or +3 if that minion is a berserker) for each token here.
The more enemies that fell before the Berserkers, the fiercer they became.

I really think the first abiltiy should just be a flat +2. Its so easy to reinforce beserker tokens this could easily get out of hand. Other than that its cool.

[sickofpalantirs]

the second line works with old uruks I guess...but thats almost too good than now that I think about it.
and I agree with lem0n on the second one.

[DáinIronfoot]

Okay, sorry for the silence for a couple days.

The main point of wording the Cleaver the way I did was to allow it to give the berserker keyword to old-school Berserkers. I understand the merits of FM's method of simple reprinting, and while I may still do that for a couple of them, I'd rather not reprint all eight of those minions plus the berserkers I'm creating in this set. If I had that many, even with many of them bring reprints, I may as well rename the whole set "Berserker Madness" or something. I'd rather pick and choose a couple of them to reprint and slap the new keyword on, and let the Cleaver and a couple other cards reach back to integrate the rest.

As for Bloodlust, I greatly simplified it based on reviews. Better now, or TOO simple?

Sticking with berserkers today. We'll get to some more berserker-related (non-minion) cards tomorrow.

Berserk Stormer
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 7
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Damage +1. Berserker 2. (This character is strength +2 for each wound on each character in its skirmish.)
To play, spot 2 Uruk-hai (or another berserker).
Regroup: Discard this minion and 2 other minions to take control of a site.
"Some of the Riders were driven back, further and further into the Deep, falling and fighting as they gave way, step by step, towards the caves."

As I was doing my final internal reviews of the berserker subculture, I realized I was missing two important ingredients. Site control was one of them, which this guy and a card tomorrow should cover nicely.

•Berserk Assaulter
Minion • Uruk-hai
Strength: 12
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Damage +1. Berserker 1. (This character is strength +1 for each wound on each character in its skirmish.)
While exhausted, Berserk Assaulter is fierce.
Skirmish: Remove 3 tokens from a machine to make a berserker strength +3.
"The defence was swept away."

The other ingredient is something that many old-school berserkers had but I had unwittingly left out until now: working with tokens on machines. Nearly all old berserkers did SOMETHING with tokens, and I made it a special point to bring machines back in a big way in this culture (starting back on Page 6, I think), so it seemed almost a crime to go without the two meeting once again. Rather than add some token text onto my already-otherwise-finished berserkers, I went with this guy, who can pretty much give some blanket token text to any berserker, even if it's just him. Lazy? Perhaps. But I think it makes for one heckuva cool berserker "commander" to focus a deck around, don't you?